SB70 6mm and 10mm Clear in OPTICS

[CC Chiang]

Hello, 

I noticed something odd in OPTICS: While looking for SB70 on 6mm and 10mm clear in OPTICS under "Add Glazing", I cannot find their NFRC IDs (5349 and 5441). However, they do show up in "View All", with the caveat that they don't possess sufficient data to calculate the resulting laminate's properties for saving/export.

These 2 glasses were in IGDB v70 but not in v97. Vitro has been nice enough to construct laminates with SB70 6mm on clear but we're looking for ways to build more laminates with SB70 ourselves in OPTICS.

Does anyone at LBNL know why 5349 and 5441 don't show up under "Add Glazing"? Thanks!

[Robin Mitchell]

I am not sure why you are not able to see those layers in the Add Glazing tab.

I am able to see 5349 and 5441 in the Add Glazing tab, and can add them to a glazing system.

Make sure you have the latest IGDB (106) installed.

--
You can view the THERM forum online at:
https://groups.google.com/g/LBNL-THERM
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "THERM" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LBNL-THERM+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/23d8244d-af11-4560-b0d2-34631ad4a437n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Robin Mitchell

Building Technology and Urban Systems Division
Energy Technologies Area
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

[char...@salienteng.com]

We have encountered this type of behaviour recently as well.  I don't recall which glazing it was we were looking for at the time, but it was a glazing that was fairly standard (not a new product, and from a mainstream manufacturer on a typical substrate).  I did some testing to see if I could replicate the original poster's problem.  I have IGDB v106 installed.  Oddly my Optics does not seem to include ID 5441, but I am able to find 5349.  in the attached screenshot I have sorted the Glazing table by NFRC ID, and have tried searching for NFRC ID #5441 using the "find" tool and it returns an error.  Strange.

[char...@salienteng.com]

After submitting my message I realized that I should probably test whether I could actually make a laminate using the 5349.  When I do make the laminate it gives an error saying "Many warning were generated by this calculation, use results with caution or choose different layers ..."

Attached are screenshots of the warning message that Optics generates after it calculates the laminate, the message that pops up when you enter "yes" to the question "Do you want to see the details of the save operation", as well as the .usr file for the laminate I created.

Crystal

[Robin Mitchell]

In Optics, what layers you see will depend on how the data was submitted to the IGDB, and also the properties of the layer. 

For laminates, in general, Optics will not allow putting a layer with a coating facing an interlayer. This is why some layers may not appear in the Add Glazing tab if you are making a laminate. 

I am wondering if that is what you have put together, and if so, why Optics allowed it. 

Can you give me the exact list of layers that you are using in your laminate construction, so that I can replicate it on my end and see what the issues are? 

Robin

--

You can view the THERM forum online at:
https://groups.google.com/g/LBNL-THERM
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "THERM" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to LBNL-THERM+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/c6132a7f-4a50-4c3a-bf53-f72c80c2c052n%40googlegroups.com.

[char...@salienteng.com]

Hi Robin,

You are correct - the test makeup I made this morning had the interlayer against the low e coating.  In my haste to put together a test makeup I wasn't paying enough attention.  Optics did not toss out the usual warning that the interlayer was facing the coated side when I calculated the laminate.  The makeup I made was as follows:

ID # 5349 (low e on #2)

Interlayer XTT_100

ID #11503

I just made a different makeup with the ID 5349 on the "interior" side with the low e on surface #4 and Optics created the laminate without any unusual errors.  

However I sill cannot see NFRC_ID #5441 in the database at all in Optics.  It does show up in my WINDOW v7.8 glass library, but somehow Optics cannot seem to see it.

Crystal

[Robin Mitchell]

The reason you can't see 5441 is that it was submitted by the manufacturer to the IGDB without a substrate, so Optics doesn't have enough information to use it in a laminate. 

Optics does allow you to see it in the View All tab, and you can select it, but you get a message saying that the coating can't be next to the interlayer, and allows you to flip it. 

However, that is a programming error in Optics, because even when flipped, because there is not a substrate, the laminate calculation will not be completed, and there will be N/A in the laminate results. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/LBNL-THERM/6544421c-84cf-4b04-a76e-0be5210a4e06n%40googlegroups.com.