Motor OD Claim - Peril - By accidental External Means.

[Chandrasekhara Raju]

Dear All,

We have been discussing the above captioned subject for the last few days.  It is time we consolidate and come to proper conclusion on the subject.  The following issues came to light, during discussions.

01. What is external, and then what can be termed as 'internal'.

02. Does the peril mean there should be an impact?

03. What if an IV falls down while taking a turn?

04. What is the fate of a claim involving 'jack knife' incidents?

05. Whether cargo in the load body of IV / and or passengers be considered as internal or external to the IV?.

 01. What is external, and then what can be termed as 'internal'.

External is not a separate word in the given peril, and the peril needs to be read as one phrase / expression.  'By external means' conveys the meaning of 'anything that is not part of the IV in its normal status and normal running and operations.  And the discussion, then what is internal, is beyond the scope and redundant in reading the policy coverage aspect, though attempt can be made for clarity purpose.

My take on the issue is that internal is just representing the normal operation and running of the IV.  Even in normal operation / running of IV there could be incidents which looks like accidental, and hence effort will be made to claim.

Disjointing of steering wheel, Drag links, engine/transmission failures due to starvation of lub oil or disjointing of circlip / breakage of piston rings and so on, Mix up of coolant with lub oil due to blow off of head gasket - so on and so forth., are the instances which can be termed as internal.  This is only for our clarity purpose and has nothing to do with the peril under discussion. 

02. Does the peril mean there should be an impact?

This again needs a closer scrutiny.  Though impact by external means is also included / covered, not all the incidents needs to have the impact as its ingredient, to be admissible under this peril.

Take the case of bonnet detaching from its latch while the IV is running, and blown back (by wind force) hitting the windshield glass.  IV occupant falling onto the front windshield glass, cargo in the load body hitting the cabin (on application of sudden brake), all these are some examples, where different opinions emerged among ourselves.  In all these impact is present but by what means., it is by external means., i.e., the normal operation or running of the IV does not cause such damage. 

03. What if an IV falls down while taking a turn?

Now, let us consider the cases of an IV travelling at high speed trying to negotiate a turning fails to take the turn, and the driver swishes it by agressive steering, the IV gets upset and falls on a side.  Here there is no impact involved but the cause of damage (of falling down) is caused by sudden swish and as the IV was not allowed to take its turn according to its gyroscope (!?) parameter. If there is load on its load body of the IV when such turning is attempted, the load thrusts its mass in a direction opposite to the turning attempted and causes the wheels lifting off the road and fall on a side.

Can we deny a claim of own damage as of prepara?  I am sure No., we can not.  The cause of damage is by 'accidental external means" though no impact involved here.  The occurrence does not fall into the normal running / operation of the IV, but influenced by external means of 'forcible attempt to take a turn', and thrust of the load to a side. Can we call it moving dynamics resulting in adverse momentum!.

04. What is the fate of a claim involving 'jack knife' incidents?

And after the above discussion, one should not be left with any doubts regarding the incidents of 'jack knife' incidents.

05. Whether cargo in the load body of IV / and or passengers be considered as internal or external to the IV?. 

Both the cited are external to the IV, since they do not form part and parcel of the IV nor gets included in its IV, if occupied, Any thing not constituting the ULW of the IV - as rightly mentioned by one of our members - is external to the IV.  The peril is 'By External Means', which may be an impact, or forcible attempt to negotiate a turning or just the wind force or the dynamics of momentum, and need necessarily not include the impact to be eligible for consideration under this peril.  

More views welcome.  Only if there are conflicts, we focus on issues, and such focus may result in better solutions and resolving of issues.  So let us all try to express and evolve a consensus on such issues.

Regards,

D. Chandrasekhara Raju,

Insurance Surveyor, Hyderabad.

+91-99490-95995.

[KC.G...@nic.co.in]

My dear Mr. Raju,

I am constantly reading the views being written by various friends which are thought provoking and highly knowledgeable. But you have summarized all discussions and given your views in such a nice manner.

Thank you for this again.

With regards,
CMA K.C.Gupta,
Regional Manager,
National Insurance Company Ltd
Jodhpur Regional Office,
3-4 Sun Tower, Pal Road, Jodhpur
Phone : 0291-2785192
Cell: 07665013380
09829028456

-----insurance...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----

To: insurance-surveyors-india <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com>, insurance_surveyors <insurance...@googlegroups.com>, iiisla...@googlegroups.com, "insurance...@googlegroups.com" <Insurance...@googlegroups.com>
From: Chandrasekhara Raju
Sent by: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Date: 05/13/2014 06:58AM
Cc: krishna reddy <pvkre...@gmail.com>, Dadu Narayanareddy <dadunara...@gmail.com>, Surendra Babu Rao <jsb...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Adjusters:13525] Motor OD Claim - Peril - By accidental External Means.

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[Shailesh Shah]

Dear brother
Consensus is not easy without involving underwriters and Authority.

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[suresh parik]

Dear members ,

If all  sudden impact caused by any foreign agency except part & partial of motor vehicle  

treat as  external means then what about these causes :

1. Suddenly  front axle detached & collided with bottom portion of vehicle. 

2. Bonnet hits main glass .

3. on a sharp turn trailer have such a movement 5th wheel coupling  broken & fr. portion of trailer stuck by cabin .

kindly give your valuable opinions .

with regard ,

Suresh Pareek. 

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Subject: Re: [Adjusters:13526] Motor OD Claim - Peril - By accidental External Means.
From: KC.G...@nic.co.in
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
CC: dadunara...@gmail.com; iiisla...@googlegroups.com; Insurance...@googlegroups.com; insurance-su...@googlegroups.com; insurance...@googlegroups.com; jsb...@gmail.com; pvkre...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 10:41:58 +0530

[KC.G...@nic.co.in]

My dear Suresh ji,

In the all three examples given by you, initial damages are not covered because the loss took place due to internal part of the vehicle. Once that damaged internal part is damaged and causes further damages to the vehicle, such losses due to second event are covered.   

With regards,
CMA K.C.Gupta,
Regional Manager,
National Insurance Company Ltd
Jodhpur Regional Office,
3-4 Sun Tower, Pal Road, Jodhpur
Phone : 0291-2785192
Cell: 07665013380
09829028456

-----insurance...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----

To: adjuster goups <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
From: suresh parik
Sent by: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Date: 05/13/2014 01:08PM
Cc: "insurance...@googlegroups.com" <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Adjusters:13528] Motor OD Claim - Peril - By accidental External Means.

[Swadesh Kumar Dhamija]

Dear All 

The simplest ," the cause of loss is not covered in any policy," - further damages covered.  

Best Regards 

ER.  SWADESH KUMAR  DHAMIJA & ASSOCIATES

J52 A, Tagore Nagar, Behind DCM 

Ajmer Road, Jaipur-302021

9829010332

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Subject: RE: [Adjusters:13529] Motor OD Claim - Peril - By accidental External Means.
From: KC.G...@nic.co.in
To: insurance...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:38:43 +0530