Idealist IP Owner?

[Chris Hurrey]

I lost track of the owner of Idealist once Bekon had ceased trading. I then learned that the IP was owned by a solicitor in Stockport who had financed/supported Bekon. I got in touch with him several years ago but when I checked again recently I read that he had died in 2021. So now the trail has gone cold. I guess that means that Idealist is "abandonware" but not usable by organisations - especially those who worry about having licensed software.

[Tim Holt-Wilson]

Interesting detective work, Chris !

 

I still use it everyday.

 

Tim

 

 

TD Holt-Wilson

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[Chris Hurrey]

Tim

Me too.  A really useful [and cheap] bit of software. Shame the development went awry.

Chris

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From: 'Tim Holt-Wilson' via Idealist <Ideal...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2025 10:13:45 PM
To: Ideal...@googlegroups.com <Ideal...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Idealist IP Owner?

 

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[Johnny Hoeve]

Also still using it - I lost data over the years of other software many times never lost
data when it was done with Idealist.Been on my computer ever since the 1990s

Perhaps a modern software programmer should take a look at it, if that programming data
is available or can be recovered - my only negative for Idealist was that it didnt have text
format options that much. With that added and bit more modern look it's a killler software.

John

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Johnny Hoeve

Moonpub NET, The Netherlands

[Chris Hurrey]

I agree. I got in touch with the guy who did the original coding but he doesn't have the time or the motivation to update it. There have been attempts over the years to add text formatting and hyperlinks etc but nothing came of them. I have tinkered with it but don't have the skills.

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From: ideal...@googlegroups.com <ideal...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Johnny Hoeve <moo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2025 4:47:56 PM
To: Ideal...@googlegroups.com <Ideal...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Idealist IP Owner?

 

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[John Nurick]

My reasons for switching from Idealist were, in order:

1. Access and edit my data with smartphone as well as PC, synchronising files via Dropbox or whatever.
2. Rich text (preferably HTML), Unicode, hyperlinks etc.
   
3. Worries that a Windows update would brick it.

It seems to me that a revived Idealist would have to address 1 and 2 to appeal beyond a small niche, but that this would require a complete rewrite. 

(I switched to OneNote, which does 1 and 2 but irritates me in almost every other way.)

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[Brian Leeming]

Hi John

And OneNote support ends in October this year, which is another downside of it.

Brian

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[Johnny Hoeve]

I only use it as a notekeeper these days and backup text.Only need the quick find F5
 option to find what I want and don't need results sorted or whatever feature like these
other more modern softwares all do. But was probable also the "feel" of Idealist that
made you like it. Great for very large text-based databases for me.

No promotion but just example what I did with it end of 1990s

https://moonpub.net/shake5/

-John

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[chrisx...@gmail.com]

John

 

What an excellent Shakespear resource! Thanks for the link.

 

Dank u wel.

 

Chris

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[chrisx...@gmail.com]

Idealist has indeed been left behind - and could have been a commercially successful product.  But it works. On anything between Windows 3 and Windows 11. I’ve run it on Linux.

 

For archiving unstructured text it’s excellent and, for me, rich text is not that important. I can simulate hyperlinks to web pages or MS files.

 

The only significant issue is the lack of ownership. I can’t use it outside my own home because of licensing issues.

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[Richard Nunn]

As the original author, I'm calling it: Idealist is now abandonware.

The Wikipedia definition is: "Abandonware is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, which can no longer be found for sale, and for which no official support is available and cannot be bought."

If the IP owner, if one even exists, wants to make a claim then let them. They will be unable to prove a loss on their part in a court, because they have shown by their (in)actions that the product has no commercial value. In the meantime, use it whenever and wherever you like.

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[chrisx...@gmail.com]

Richard

 

Thanks for that – and may I say what a fantastic application it is, having served a lot of people and organisations well for the last 30-odd years.

 

Chris

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[Brian Leeming]

Good afternoon everyone

What would it cost to get someone to update it  / rewrite it?  Do we know?  What actually needs doing to it?  (Separate the must-haves from the like-to-haves.)  And how many enthusiastic users are there?  Is there a company that would be prepared to 'own' it and market it?  How about establishing a company owned by the enthusiasts?

I am well past retirement age, my spare time is taken up with voluntary work for a major charity, and I am Secretary & Treasurer of another company.  Otherwise, I would have been prepared to research an answer to the first three questions.  But I don't want to take anything else on and make a pigs ear of it.

Is there a lawyer in our group?  Since the previous owners seem to have abandoned the software, is it ours to do what we want?  Lots of questions, I know,

Any thoughts?

Brian

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[Martin Gordon]

Hello all

I'm still using Idealist and would be interested in a new version - a simple rewrite would be fine for me.

Does anyone have any idea where the source code may be lurking?

All the best - Martin

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[Richard Nunn]

After trying out many database-like apps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_note-taking_software), and zettlekasten, and writing a few proof-of-concept apps, I eventually gave up and now just resort to a clunky collection of markdown documents that I edit with Typora. All backed up in a private github repo (or Dropbox-like folder). I sketched out a design for an Idealist successor, because even after 30 years there's nothing else I can find that does the same job. The highlights would be (a) open source, free forever (b) the only file format would be plain text (c) web front end (think Google and Microsoft's awesome web apps for text editing/spreadsheets &c). I haven't seen the Idealist source code for 30-odd years, and would only need it for unpacking the Idealist file formats, but then Idealist databases could be exported and imported, so access to the source would be of no benefit. Hardware and text-search algorithms are so fast now that I doubt there would be a need to build and maintain a separate index for each database. It's essentially a defined text file storage protocol, with a thin management layer; 90% of the work is in the user interface. I have now hung up my keyboard, but would be happy to consult/collaborate on the project.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 at 12:11, Brian Leeming <brianw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[chrisx...@gmail.com]

Errr… I have the source code. The chaps at Bekon gave me a copy when I developed some databases for a government agency. I made some minor and very amateur changes to the code to enhance security and to prevent users from changing things.

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