Sheet on a 30C
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Aug 31, 2010, 6:43:04 AM8/31/10
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:41:36 -0400
From: Wayne Miller <wmil...@COGECO.CA>
Subject: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
I am considering replacing my 3/8 Spectra sheet because it is has lost
it 'suppleness' and twists at the block attached to the boom and is at
times quite difficult to pull in when under load - the twisting may be
the fault of the block and not the line. My manual says to use a 7/16
Dacron, (polyester), Braid line. The one disadvantage of Dacron is
that it sinks. Is there any way to restore the 'suppleness' of the
sheet that I have now?
The research that I have done shows that Spectra, along with something
called Dyneema, is a"High-Tenacity Polyethylene". Spectra is not
cheap - $2.34/foot where I am in Southern Ontario. My research also
found a "High-Tenacity Copolymer" that floats and is listed as
economical - I'm not familiar with this and don't know if it is
available or what I need.
I would appreciate any input from the group and thank you all in
advance.
Wayne Miller
BIBIS V 30C 24 1979
Bronte ON Bronte Outer Harbour Marina
West-Lake Ontario Fleet
http://www.pbase.com/nonsuch/30c_024_bibis_v
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:32:10 +0100
From: FAITH TIPPETT <faith....@BTINTERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Further to twisting main sheet.
About five years ago I was taught to FURL rather than COIL the main
sheet. This has totally cured the problem with the main sheet twist,
(and any halyard). It is difficult to describe the difference but the
end result of a FURLED sheet is a coil looking like a figure of
eight. A COILED sheet is a neat circle. The making up difference is
not to put a twist into the FURL as one does with a good COIL.
Any one have a better more technical description?
Faith Tippett, Mersea Memsahib. UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:37:20 -0400
From: Allen Perrins <barb...@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Hi
Furl good. New England Regatta Braid best line.
This is a fully plaited line in contrast to double braid
or three strand. Easy on the hands and minimal twist.
Al
Barbcat NS 30 C #170
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:19:23 -0400
From: Bruce Anderson <bruce-a...@ROGERS.COM>
Subject: Preventing twist - was: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
To follow up on Faith's comment, I recently attended a workshop given
by a TV & film sound person. One of the things he taught us was how
to coil microphone wire. He claimed that he learned this technique
from a sailor. His technique is equivalent (in effect) to what Faith
describes, but IMHO looks better.
When I saw him do it, it was one of those "AHA!" moments, followed
immediately by "Now why didn't I ever think of that?". The value of
what he was doing was instantly obvious, but I've found that it still
takes a lot of practice to actually do it.
The technique is simple and obvious - each time you add a turn to a
coil of halyard / line / sheet / rope / wire / whatever, you also add
a twist. Creatures of habit, we normally keep adding the twist in the
same direction. The sound guy's technique was simplicity itself -
alternate the direction of the twists so they cancel out!
Although my intellect found this obvious, my hands had some difficulty
making it happen. When I coil line, I normally hold the coil in my
left hand and add turns with my right. To make the line lay properly,
I rotate the line between my right thumb and forefinger clockwise on
every loop. This feels 'natural'. The tricky part is convincing your
hands to do every other twist counterclockwise. It doesn't feel
'natural' at all (until you are used to it!).
You twist the line with your wrist and thumb THE OTHER WAY. The new
coil looks like it is going on UNDER the last turn. That's OK - it
works.
I had to practice quite a few times, and my fingers still get confused
occasionally. An excellent way to practice is to take, say, 20 feet
of line and coil it. It you've done it right, you can hold one end
and throw (toss) the coil in front of you, and it will lay out with no
kinks or twists. When you can do this automatically, you are ready to
say goodbye to most of the twist in your lines.
Bruce Anderson
KANIK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:31:22 -0300
From: Jon Fitch <jfi...@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Preventing twist - was: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
This method will produce a nice looking coil with no net twist, and it
is easy to do once the technique is learned. However like the
traditional method of coiling a line (or perhaps a bit worse) the line
will not run free without tangling. The method described as figure 8s
is the only way to produce a coil of braid that will run free from the
coil without tangling. I coil the halyard this way for that reason. If
thrown down of the deck right side up it will run to the end rapidly
and reliably. Even so, I usually flake the halyard down prior to
letting it go to get that perfect drop.
Jon Fitch
'Anomaly'
Currently lying Souris, PEI
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:58:24 -0300
From: Jon Fitch <jfi...@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
On Aug 23, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Allen Perrins wrote:
New England Regatta Braid best line.
This is a fully plaited line in contrast to double braid
or three strand. Easy on the hands and minimal twist.
One caveat on New England Regatta Braid: it does not work well with
Andersen self tailing winches. The loose braid catches in the stripper
and things go sideways from there. I had to replace the main sheet on
'Anomaly' with double braid for this reason (all 280 feet!!). Not sure
about other brand of winches.
There is no earthly reason to use Dyneema, Spectra, or any other high
tech line on the sheet of a Nonsuch even for racers (the halyard is a
different story...). Stretch is not a concern in this application and
your money is wasted. A nice pliable double braid dacron is just fine
- or Regatta Braid if if works in your self tailer. You will want at
least 7/16 or 11mm to make it easy on the hands. Save the Dyneema
budget for the halyard, upper part of the choker tackle, and clew
reefing lines.
Jon Fitch
'Anomaly'
Currently lying Souris, Prince Edward Island
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:50:42 -0700
From: Mark Powers <r...@SHAW.CA>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
I agree that high tech. low stretch line is not necessary for the
sheet and will be daring and recommend against it. When I changed the
lines on La Reina I told the rigger I wanted low stretch for the
halyard but it was not necessary for the sheet. He gave me low stretch
for the sheet as well. On a tack with the low stretch sheet there was
a real thump as the boom came across that did not exist with prior low
tech. line I had. To get rid of this I installed a snubber in the
sheet. It would have been better and cheaper to have a sheet with a
bit of give in it.
My brother tried the Regatta Braid on his 26C and found that it gave
problems with the Barient winch as Jon has described with the
Anderson.
Low stretch for halyards, chokers and reef lines, yes. Main sheet no.
Mark Powers & Nesta Davies
La Reina Nonsuch 26c
Burrard Civic Marina
Vancouver BC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
continuity.
Reply to this entire post to continue the discussion.
=================================================================================
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:41:36 -0400
From: Wayne Miller <wmil...@COGECO.CA>
Subject: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
I am considering replacing my 3/8 Spectra sheet because it is has lost
it 'suppleness' and twists at the block attached to the boom and is at
times quite difficult to pull in when under load - the twisting may be
the fault of the block and not the line. My manual says to use a 7/16
Dacron, (polyester), Braid line. The one disadvantage of Dacron is
that it sinks. Is there any way to restore the 'suppleness' of the
sheet that I have now?
The research that I have done shows that Spectra, along with something
called Dyneema, is a"High-Tenacity Polyethylene". Spectra is not
cheap - $2.34/foot where I am in Southern Ontario. My research also
found a "High-Tenacity Copolymer" that floats and is listed as
economical - I'm not familiar with this and don't know if it is
available or what I need.
I would appreciate any input from the group and thank you all in
advance.
Wayne Miller
BIBIS V 30C 24 1979
Bronte ON Bronte Outer Harbour Marina
West-Lake Ontario Fleet
http://www.pbase.com/nonsuch/30c_024_bibis_v
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 22:32:10 +0100
From: FAITH TIPPETT <faith....@BTINTERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Further to twisting main sheet.
About five years ago I was taught to FURL rather than COIL the main
sheet. This has totally cured the problem with the main sheet twist,
(and any halyard). It is difficult to describe the difference but the
end result of a FURLED sheet is a coil looking like a figure of
eight. A COILED sheet is a neat circle. The making up difference is
not to put a twist into the FURL as one does with a good COIL.
Any one have a better more technical description?
Faith Tippett, Mersea Memsahib. UK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 20:37:20 -0400
From: Allen Perrins <barb...@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Hi
Furl good. New England Regatta Braid best line.
This is a fully plaited line in contrast to double braid
or three strand. Easy on the hands and minimal twist.
Al
Barbcat NS 30 C #170
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:19:23 -0400
From: Bruce Anderson <bruce-a...@ROGERS.COM>
Subject: Preventing twist - was: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
To follow up on Faith's comment, I recently attended a workshop given
by a TV & film sound person. One of the things he taught us was how
to coil microphone wire. He claimed that he learned this technique
from a sailor. His technique is equivalent (in effect) to what Faith
describes, but IMHO looks better.
When I saw him do it, it was one of those "AHA!" moments, followed
immediately by "Now why didn't I ever think of that?". The value of
what he was doing was instantly obvious, but I've found that it still
takes a lot of practice to actually do it.
The technique is simple and obvious - each time you add a turn to a
coil of halyard / line / sheet / rope / wire / whatever, you also add
a twist. Creatures of habit, we normally keep adding the twist in the
same direction. The sound guy's technique was simplicity itself -
alternate the direction of the twists so they cancel out!
Although my intellect found this obvious, my hands had some difficulty
making it happen. When I coil line, I normally hold the coil in my
left hand and add turns with my right. To make the line lay properly,
I rotate the line between my right thumb and forefinger clockwise on
every loop. This feels 'natural'. The tricky part is convincing your
hands to do every other twist counterclockwise. It doesn't feel
'natural' at all (until you are used to it!).
You twist the line with your wrist and thumb THE OTHER WAY. The new
coil looks like it is going on UNDER the last turn. That's OK - it
works.
I had to practice quite a few times, and my fingers still get confused
occasionally. An excellent way to practice is to take, say, 20 feet
of line and coil it. It you've done it right, you can hold one end
and throw (toss) the coil in front of you, and it will lay out with no
kinks or twists. When you can do this automatically, you are ready to
say goodbye to most of the twist in your lines.
Bruce Anderson
KANIK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:31:22 -0300
From: Jon Fitch <jfi...@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Preventing twist - was: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
This method will produce a nice looking coil with no net twist, and it
is easy to do once the technique is learned. However like the
traditional method of coiling a line (or perhaps a bit worse) the line
will not run free without tangling. The method described as figure 8s
is the only way to produce a coil of braid that will run free from the
coil without tangling. I coil the halyard this way for that reason. If
thrown down of the deck right side up it will run to the end rapidly
and reliably. Even so, I usually flake the halyard down prior to
letting it go to get that perfect drop.
Jon Fitch
'Anomaly'
Currently lying Souris, PEI
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:58:24 -0300
From: Jon Fitch <jfi...@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
On Aug 23, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Allen Perrins wrote:
New England Regatta Braid best line.
This is a fully plaited line in contrast to double braid
or three strand. Easy on the hands and minimal twist.
One caveat on New England Regatta Braid: it does not work well with
Andersen self tailing winches. The loose braid catches in the stripper
and things go sideways from there. I had to replace the main sheet on
'Anomaly' with double braid for this reason (all 280 feet!!). Not sure
about other brand of winches.
There is no earthly reason to use Dyneema, Spectra, or any other high
tech line on the sheet of a Nonsuch even for racers (the halyard is a
different story...). Stretch is not a concern in this application and
your money is wasted. A nice pliable double braid dacron is just fine
- or Regatta Braid if if works in your self tailer. You will want at
least 7/16 or 11mm to make it easy on the hands. Save the Dyneema
budget for the halyard, upper part of the choker tackle, and clew
reefing lines.
Jon Fitch
'Anomaly'
Currently lying Souris, Prince Edward Island
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 22:50:42 -0700
From: Mark Powers <r...@SHAW.CA>
Subject: Re: Sheet on a 30C
To: NONS...@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
I agree that high tech. low stretch line is not necessary for the
sheet and will be daring and recommend against it. When I changed the
lines on La Reina I told the rigger I wanted low stretch for the
halyard but it was not necessary for the sheet. He gave me low stretch
for the sheet as well. On a tack with the low stretch sheet there was
a real thump as the boom came across that did not exist with prior low
tech. line I had. To get rid of this I installed a snubber in the
sheet. It would have been better and cheaper to have a sheet with a
bit of give in it.
My brother tried the Regatta Braid on his 26C and found that it gave
problems with the Barient winch as Jon has described with the
Anderson.
Low stretch for halyards, chokers and reef lines, yes. Main sheet no.
Mark Powers & Nesta Davies
La Reina Nonsuch 26c
Burrard Civic Marina
Vancouver BC
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