Wishbone Hanger Connections

620 views
Skip to first unread message

ken...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 13, 2021, 6:39:37 PM6/13/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
I know this has been discussed a bit in previous threads, but I'm wondering what members are preferring for the wishbone hanger connections.  I like the idea of a snap shackle so that it's a quick connect when your hanging out over the end of your ladder 12' up, but some of you say they snag on things.  Any advice about what has worked for you, sizes of shackles, etc. would be much appreciated.

Ken Julian
"Idyll Ours"  NS26C #9
Saint John, NB, Can.

Joe Weinbrecht

unread,
Jun 13, 2021, 6:46:13 PM6/13/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Google "stainless flag clips"

Joe
Ns26c# 156

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/b33aed14-0601-4f28-a4bd-e38be92176d0n%40googlegroups.com.

Mike

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 6:44:06 AM6/14/21
to ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com, INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
I've used a pair of heavy duty caribiners for over 15 years. They are non locking which makes connecting up to the hanger lines a snap and minimizes ladder times.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U


Ken Julian

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 10:52:44 AM6/14/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Thanks Joe.  There are so many kinds though.  I'm leaning towards the 5/16' Safety Spring Hook - looks like a Carabiner.

Ken J. 
26C #9

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CAGrUX%3D8jumJHfrQKNdoVdGQasu5dkLo%2BMa1C%3Dj%2BFHhaOnTW8iA%40mail.gmail.com.

Joe Weinbrecht

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 11:30:23 AM6/14/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Back at the PC today, I bought this style, shop for best price.  

I have a top zip cover with two clips on each hanger half,  it made taking the cover off and putting it back on very easy.  Also used a rolling hitch for easy adjustment at bottom end.

https://www.united-states-flag.com/stainless-steel-spring-clips-238.html

Joe
NS26C #156

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CA%2BtHCUF14UAZ7qqi9eEBViZN9XVFUcir9xJSeMQCMoEUwdgSmA%40mail.gmail.com.

Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 2:52:05 PM6/14/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
I'm confused.  It sounds like some folks are talking about the lines from the mast to the wishbone which suspend that very heavy chunk of metal in the air, while others are talking about the lines from the wishbone to the sail foot or sail cover which catch the sail when it drops.  I've always called the former "hanger lines" and the latter "lazyjacks".

I can see good arguments for both being easily attachable/re-attachable.  For the hanger lines, given that it'd be really unpleasant if something fails and the boom falls, I'd want something beefy and locking.

There's been previous discussion about loose halyard or reefing lines catching on things.  I've had lines hang up on things on the mast.  I've never had anything hang on anything on the boom, especially not an area that's on the upper part of the boom and usually forward of the mast.  Has anyone had that specific problem?  O/w, sounds like some kind of locking carabiner might be the right compromise.

-- Bob
    Solar Wind
    Nonsuch 26C #143

Joe Weinbrecht

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 2:55:12 PM6/14/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
OOPs, sorry for the sloppy language, I was referring to the lazyjack lines from the boom stbd to boom port.

Joe
NS26C #156


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/de53963e-2369-4ade-97c9-5a6fb0145c94n%40googlegroups.com.

Joe Valinoti

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 5:35:26 PM6/14/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
I believe the proper name for the lines that keep the sail cradled inside the wishbone are called “Cradle lines” according to my manual. 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA


~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

unread,
Jun 14, 2021, 11:46:04 PM6/14/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Indeed they are, Joe. 

Uhm, would you believe that I knew that and was just testing you guys? 

-- Bob
   Solar Wind
   Nonsuch 26C #143

ken...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 6:24:23 AM6/15/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Good to hear Mike. That's what I was thinking about, if I can find the right size and quality.  And you haven't found the non locking ones come undone?  

Ken J.
26C#9

Joe Valinoti

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 7:41:39 AM6/15/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bob
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

Mike

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 10:21:06 AM6/15/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group, INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Ken

That was a concern I originally had too. But, in over 15 years I never had a problem with the carabiners  opening even during Hurricane Sandy. The weigh of the boom provides  enough tension to keep them closed.  I'm also still using the original carabiners and they show no observable wear. Makes raising and dropping the boom a  quick easy operation. 

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U

Rob Crothers

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 11:24:33 AM6/15/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
The threaded bolts that hold the wishbone fittings onto the mast have been a a recurring problem for me. I have found them loose at the end of the past two seasons. In fact one fell into the deck last September even though I had used blue loktight at the beginning of last season. I thought it might have been placed thereby the joker two slips away. This spring I drilled out and re- threaded the holes in the mast for bolts the next size up.
Has anyone had a similar experience?

All the best, RJC
NS Coaster NS 287
Kingston Ontario

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2021, at 10:21 AM, 'Mike' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Bob Jenkins

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 9:09:21 PM6/15/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Hi Rob ,
These bolts pass through both the inner and outer portions of the mast as it is at the mast joint . If there is movement at the joint the bolt shears leaving only the outer sleeve of the mast for thread attachment of the hanger bolts . Movement at this junction should be investigated. Usually the 2 thru bolts are the cause and have to be upgraded with new thrubolts as supplied by Mike Quill .
Bob Jenkins 
Previous owner Good News 
Aurora . on 

On Jun 15, 2021, at 11:24 AM, Rob Crothers <rob.cr...@kingstonyachtclub.com> wrote:

The threaded bolts that hold the wishbone fittings onto the mast have been a a recurring problem for me. I have found them loose at the end of the past two seasons. In fact one fell into the deck last September even though I had used blue loktight at the beginning of last season. I thought it might have been placed thereby the joker two slips away. This spring I drilled out and re- threaded the holes in the mast for bolts the next size up.

Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 9:49:35 PM6/15/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
There are some good documents worth checking re spar problems on Nonsuch.org under "Members - Maintenance", and in the last Update.

If the mast joint is rotating and shearing bolts, check if the mast connection looks as shown on page 6 of https://drive.google.com/file/d/1alAzZnkGoir92ILlwhN_qIAZERw1S9K0/view

And take a look at the write-up on mast joints at: https://www.mqyr.com/joint_repair.html

-- Bob
   Solar Wind
   Nonsuch 26C #143


Joe Valinoti

unread,
Jun 15, 2021, 10:27:29 PM6/15/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
What size boat do you have, Rob??
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA


~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Wishbone Hanger Connections
 

ed.b...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 9, 2021, 2:05:49 PM7/9/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Hi Mike,

Heavy duty carabiners, can you be more specific.  Can you please supply what ratings, materials, or your supplier?  This sounds like a good idea since our yacht club requires mast removal for the winter.  Every winter😊.

 

Thanks,

…..Ed

 

 

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat, NS30322

Sarnia Yacht Club

 

 

 

 

 

From: 'Mike' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: June 14, 2021 6:44 AM
To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com; INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Wishbone Hanger Connections

 

I've used a pair of heavy duty caribiners for over 15 years. They are non locking which makes connecting up to the hanger lines a snap and minimizes ladder times.

image001.jpg

Joe Valinoti

unread,
Jul 9, 2021, 2:16:06 PM7/9/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Ed:  Where is the Sarnia YC??
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

image001.jpg

ed.b...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 9, 2021, 2:21:29 PM7/9/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

In tropical Sarnia Ontario Canada.  The Sarnia Yacht Club is located at the head waters of the St. Clair River, i.e., the south end of Lake Huron.  We are across the River from Port Huron Michigan.

 

Thanks for asking.

 

…..Ed

 

 

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat, NS30322

Sarnia Yacht Club

image001.jpg

Joe Valinoti

unread,
Jul 9, 2021, 3:56:38 PM7/9/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Roger that, Ed.  Maybe you could put that in your signature.
Regards,
image001.jpg

Mike BIANKA

unread,
Jul 9, 2021, 6:50:24 PM7/9/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Ed

Sorry I don't have much info on the Caribiners other than I seem to remember they had "Made in Italy" stamped on them. About 3 or 4 inches in length. I think I have a photo of one somewhere but, I have not been able to find it.  I must have bought them in the local West Marine store over 15 years ago. Might have to wait until the end of the season when I drop the boom again to get more info. 

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island NY

Tim in STL

unread,
Aug 9, 2021, 2:08:57 PM8/9/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Mike,
Were these carabiners Stainless Steel or Aluminum alloy?  I would be worried about the aluminum wearing through.

Tim in STL

White O’morn NS26U #216

Harbor Point Yacht Club

West Alton, MO

Mike

unread,
Aug 10, 2021, 6:28:54 AM8/10/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group, INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Tim

Definitely stainless steel and showing very little wear after 15 years of use.  

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U

Jon EVENSONG

unread,
Aug 25, 2021, 3:58:56 PM8/25/21
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Small steel carabiners were not strong enough either.

Pictured here is one that the hanger bent by the end of the season.

I will look for a stronger solution.

 

 

From: Tim in STL
Sent: Monday, August 9, 2021 2:08 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 25, 2021, 7:32:44 PM8/25/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Actually, I don't go for the idea of a "quick connect" method when it comes to the wishbone hangers - I trust a good, solid shackle instead. When raising/lowering the boom, I always haul it up high enough such that the hangers are "loose" i.e. I haul it up about 8" too high. I pull the boom astern and tie it "too close" to the mast with a piece of line. That makes it both easy to attach/detach the hangers and work on the choker rig - it's right there, in your face, as you are on the ladder.

It takes me about 2 minutes max to do/undo the two shackles. Likely, I'd save 90 seconds if I went to some sort of "quick connect" method. I'd, then. worry a fair bit about how strong this was and if it would snag, etc.

Not worth the stress, IMHO.

Ernie A. in (breathtakingly humid) Toronto

Mike BIANKA

unread,
Aug 26, 2021, 7:00:19 AM8/26/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Ernie

I found it more stressful using a shackle as it requires more time spent on the ladder. In addition to having to secure the shackle with the pin. You need to secure it with some type of lashing or ty wrap. Then there is always the risk and frustration of having the pin go "kerplunk" over the side. Guess how I know this? :)

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 26, 2021, 5:08:08 PM8/26/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Mike  -

I hear you. Now that I think of it, I'm doing all of this work with the boat "strapped" down in her slip. I'm not sure if you are on a mooring, swinging around, just maybe. 

I do use shackles with captive pins. Also, as the boom comes down (or up) every 6 months, I cheat. I use a 3" piece of plastic-coated solid copper wire (like heavy speaker wire) instead of a lashing or tie wrap to "lock" the pin. I just twist it around.

As we all know, we've developed our own methodology based on what works for our own unique situations. That said, it still is very interesting to hear about what everyone else does or thinks.

Glad Henri didn't cause you (and the others) real problems. We all have quite enough going on now without passing hurricanes to worry about.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

unread,
Aug 26, 2021, 11:36:37 PM8/26/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
I haven't tried this, so I'm asking rather than recommending, but has anyone tried using a stainless chain connecting link like this one from SeaDog?

Chain Link.jpg

I was toying with it as a solution to this problem when my time comes to deal with it, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if someone else had tried it first.

-- Bob
   Solar Wind
   Nonsuch 26C #143 (but getting closer to the next one)

Mike BIANKA

unread,
Aug 27, 2021, 8:00:31 AM8/27/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Bob

I don't like the idea of using one of these screw type quick links for the wishbone hanger connection. I worry if it were to rub against the mast it might unscrew at some point. Whereas the type of Carbiner I used has not caused a problem in fifteen years of use. Plus you still need to spend more time on the ladder to screw it tight. 

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island



Evensong30U

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 12:52:27 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Also I believe that the gap  D=1/4"  is too small to fit over the wishbone's hanger attachment part. 
If you found one big enough, then it might be too large in other dimensions. 

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 3:28:30 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
In a past lifetime (stage management in large scale theatre), we'd use quicklinks to hold up all manner of scenery, etc. They are very handy and, depending on size and quality, are robust and a breeze to use. Once you place them in a working position, they hold on to the load. You spin the nut shut with your thumb. I don't ever remember even seeing a stagehand tightening one with a wrench. They are smooth and don't snag or catch on things. I have never heard of one opening up spontaneously, over time, or being "yanked open". 

I think you are fine as long as you observe the load limitations of the particular quicklink. Frankly, I have also toyed with the idea of using them in this very application but, in the end, I just default to my beefy shackles. Old dogs ....... old tricks. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ernie A. in Toronto

Gary Forster

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 5:36:23 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
The one item I’ve not seen is the tensile strength of a number of these items mentioned. I’d be more comfy knowing what the max work load of the ‘normal ‘ shackle used in the past vs the breaking strength of these suggested alternates. There are substantial loads imposed on these connections  and I’d hate to find out the hard way how strong they are. Just my thoughts. Regards, Gary Aloki / NS 30329

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 5:58:02 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Gary -

The shackles on my hangar lines were installed by Mike Quill on brand-new hanger lines that he fabricated and attached to my mast. As I said, I trust them and they are plenty beefy looking but, truthfully, I don't have the stats on them. This particular quicklink that Bob Neches put forth has a listed breaking load of 4950 lbs.

The point of the measurement of the gap being too narrow is a very wise one, though.

I took note of your photo of that Antal ring. I still feel that a block, in good condition, will always provide less friction than line rubbing against anything static.

Ernie A. in Toronto

Gary Forster

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 6:39:17 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Earnie, I agree! I’ve replaced the hanger lines twice on Aloki now in 36 years. Both times supplied by Mike Quill. He’s better than a stat sheet. I was referring to alternate methods. 

Re Antal ring. I wouldn’t argue your block vs Antal ring but the soft shackle was the thrust of the comment. 
 Regards, Gary 

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 29, 2021, 9:13:26 PM8/29/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Gary -

If you've sailed this Nonsuch for 36 years, I'd be proud to say, one day, that maybe I will have learned around half of what you've already forgotten about these boats.

If I'm lucky ....

Cheers,

Ernie A. in toronto

Mike BIANKA

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 7:06:15 AM8/30/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Gary
I'm not sure the loads on the hanger lines and connections are really that great. IMO the hanger connections are just to hold up the boom. Most of the stress is taken up by the boom tubes themselves, mast track and main sheet. The hanger lines just hold up the front of the boom and allow one to shape the sail. That said I'd be curious on the stress on the hanger lines connections and other lines but, not curious enough to buy one of these: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/spinlock--digital-sense-with-oled-display-only-10-ton-swl--17549932?recordNum=1 

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 5:36:23 PM UTC-4 garyfor...@gmail.com wrote:

Gary Forster

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 9:59:52 AM8/30/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Earnie,
Thanks for the kind words but believe me, I’ve forgotten quite a bit.. cheers, Gary 

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 11:30:33 AM8/30/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Actually, Gary, that's not a problem. Right on schedule, I'm beginning to remember the things that you forgot !!

Ernie A. in Toronto

Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)

unread,
Aug 30, 2021, 11:47:36 PM8/30/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
I envy you both, then.

I myself have forgotten more than I ever knew.

-- Bob
   Solar Wind
   Nonsuch 26C #143 (at least until further notice)
   AND....
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch 26U #233 (as of this afternoon!)

Mike BIANKA

unread,
Sep 1, 2021, 12:29:29 PM9/1/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Gary

I think one of these West Marine Carabiners is the type I'm using. I notice they are made in Italy and that is what is stamped on the ones I'm using. Not sure what size I have suspect it might be the 4 inch one. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--stainless-steel-carabiners-without-eye--P0115923?recordNum=3

On Sunday, August 29, 2021 at 5:36:23 PM UTC-4 garyfor...@gmail.com wrote:

Mike

unread,
Nov 10, 2021, 11:27:22 AM11/10/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Now that I have dropped the boats boom in preparations for winter storage I can get a close look at the carabiners. I've used them for over 15 years to connect boom to the hanger lines. They are 4 inches long and some specs are stamped on them as show in the attached photos.



Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
On Wednesday, November 10, 2021, 11:22:38 AM EST, Mike <biank...@verizon.net> wrote:


Now that I have dropped the boats boom in preparations for winter storage I can get a close look at the carabiners. I've used them for over 15 years to connect boom to the hanger lines. They are 4 inches long and some specs are stamped on them as show in the attached photos.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
20211107_142828_resized.jpg
20211107_142725.jpg

Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC

unread,
Nov 10, 2021, 12:40:19 PM11/10/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Generally the lines and blocks are 2000lbs SWL on my 26.  The boom is not something you want to fail .  Carabiners, quick connects are all designed  to open easily and quickly.

I use 316 stainless Winchard D shackles wired shut.  A bit of a pain to do, but given the consequence of failure to me it is justified.

Any attachment connection that does not have a SWL rating should never be used on anything you lift. The carabiners have a small pin holding the gate in place, hit a wave, the fitting twists, what then?  As well when you look at the point loading of a boom hanger I think it may easily get into one of the breaking positions.


Breaking Load is not Safe Working Load, and Sea Dog is made in China, probably of the finest chinesium known to man.

Mike

unread,
Nov 12, 2021, 7:20:20 AM11/12/21
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group, INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Thor

Initially I did have some of the concerns you mentioned. However, my experience has put those concerns to rest. The carabiner I use is not some Chinese knockoff. As shown on the stamped spec it's 316 stainless steel and has shown very little wear. The gate latch is also different than most others on the market that I have seen which may be part of their patent. It certainly looks more robust.  As far as accidental opening there is nothing in the area that can cause this on the Nonsuch mast and it has never occurred. For me the important safety factor is being able to disconnect/reconnect the boom in less than 30 seconds while spending minimal time on the ladder to accomplish this. After over 15 years of using this item through Superstorm Sandy, tropical storms, Nor'easters and general sailing it has never failed or caused any concern to me after initial deployment. But, everyone has different comfort levels with items used on their boats.Though I have found it to make dropping/raising the boom a much easier and safer procedure.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages