Re: Digest for INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group@googlegroups.com - 20 updates in 6 topics

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Nicholas Hirst

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Jul 18, 2024, 1:01:07 PM (4 days ago) Jul 18
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My stuffing box has developed a leak. Mechanics have told me that it is a Dripless and that a fibreglass sleeve has failed and needs to be replaced. This is not anything I can do myself and getting available expert labour may mean that I cannot sail for the rest of the season. Can I replace the Dripless with a traditional box rather than have mechanics try to repair the Dripless? Where might I find one? How heavy are they if I need to ship one? Other suggestions?

Mirthin 
N30U #513
RCYC Toronto
LONA

On Jul 18, 2024, at 12:41 PM, INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Bill M <wmorten...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 06:26AM -0700

My W27 starter motor needs to be replaced. I get a heavy click when I try
to start the engine and with my hand on the solenoid I can feel it. I can
also hear the bendix retract when I turn the engine by hand. I have removed
two bolts that hold the starter to the block but the starter feels like
there is a third bolt and I know can’t be. My question is: Has anyone had
experience removing these starters and can they be real tight in the
opening or did I unbolt something else when I took out the bottom bolt? I
have an opening in the starboard locker that I can look in or get an arm in
but not both. I expected the starter to fall out like a car starter would.
 
Bill Mortensen
NS 30U #335
Summer Song
Noank (currently in Newport), Ct
Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 10:04AM -0400

There are only two bolts 180 deg from each other. Bang it with a hammer to free it.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Bill M
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2024 9:26 AM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: W27 starter motor removal
 
My W27 starter motor needs to be replaced. I get a heavy click when I try to start the engine and with my hand on the solenoid I can feel it. I can also hear the bendix retract when I turn the engine by hand. I have removed two bolts that hold the starter to the block but the starter feels like there is a third bolt and I know can’t be. My question is: Has anyone had experience removing these starters and can they be real tight in the opening or did I unbolt something else when I took out the bottom bolt? I have an opening in the starboard locker that I can look in or get an arm in but not both. I expected the starter to fall out like a car starter would.
 
Bill Mortensen
NS 30U #335
Summer Song
Noank (currently in Newport), Ct
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Bill M <wmorten...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 07:35AM -0700

Thanks Joe. There isn’t a lot of room to be “banging” with a hammer and
tapping wasn’t doing it. I sprayed the seam with WD40 and pried with a
screw driver and got it to move. I’ve sprayed more WD40 in the gap and I’m
letting it fester. Remind me when I get home to put some real penetrating
oil on the boat. Whose idea was it to use the back end of the top starter
bolt to ground the electrical panel?
 
Bill Mortensen
NS 30U #335
Summer Song
Noank, CT
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 10:04:40 AM UTC-4 Joe Valinoti wrote:
 
Michael Stangl <mst...@rpdg.us.com>: Jul 18 10:45AM -0400

Bill,
 
I removed my starter and solenoid last fall. Although awkward to get at,
the bolts came off fairly easily. Page 336 of the Westerbeke Parts Manual
shows starter details.
 
I purchased the starter and solenoid from Sterndrive.cc. See below.
 
[image: Westerbeke Diesel Starter 12V 15-Tooth CW Rotation]
Westerbeke Diesel Starter 12V 15-Tooth CW Rotation
 
Attached is a photo of my new starter in place. I will be in Jamestown, RI
this weekend if you want to look at a new installation in person.
 
Good luck,
 
Mike
 
Mariposa
NS 30U / Hull#272
Dutch Harbor, RI
 
 
 
 
Bill M <wmorten...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 07:57AM -0700

Thanks Mike, out of desperation I should have reman starter from Hansen
Marine today. Paid twice what I could have bought one for but I’m at a
transient slip and don’t want to spend a lot of time here. Newport was a
stop on the way to Cutty Hunk. It looks like you did a nice clean install.
Was the picture through the observation hole in the starboard locker?
After his I will be making my opening bigger.
Bill M.
NS30U #335
Summer Song
Noank, CT
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 10:45:58 AM UTC-4 Michael Stangl wrote:
 
peter farley <efa...@icloud.com>: Jul 18 08:35AM -0700

I removed my starter last year. I found it easier to jut crawl inside the
starboard side lazerette. Remove the wood panel around that side of the
motor. I used a 2 foot section of 2x4 placed at the back of the starter
and hit it with a hammer. It took a few good whacks. But it gives you a lot
more room to hit the wood. The starter has a shoulder that goes into a
pretty tight hole to align it. The two pieces corroded together. So that
takes up all the play in the hole.
 
Peter Farley
Knot in a hurry 30u #328
Keyport nj
 
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 9:57:55 AM UTC-5 Bill M wrote:
 
Bob Gehrman <b...@gehrman.net>: Jul 18 12:08PM -0400

Bill -
 
Like any starter, they can be a little rusted to the engine block. Take a
heavy hammer and a wood block to tap it loose. It shouldn’t take much to
loosen it. The teeth are not tight inside the gearing. It should pop right
off once it’s loose from the block. It is heavy though, so be prepared.
 
Bob Gehrman
NS36 #52 “Fortunate”
Greenwich Bay, RI
 
Bill M <wmorten...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 09:14AM -0700

Peter, you must be younger and more limber than me. Our hull numbers are
so close that I imagine the boats are the same. I have the fuel tank which
sticks out about a foot more than the starboard locker. I looked at that
approach yesterday and didn’t see how I could possibly make it work. Once I
got the starter to move I got a scraper between it and the block. Worked
the seam until a screw driver would fit and then it popped right out.
Reverse procedure should be a lot easier.
Bill M.
NS30U #335
Summer Song
Noank, Ct
On Thursday, July 18, 2024 at 11:35:00 AM UTC-4 peter farley wrote:
 
Peter DePascale <bathwo...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 02:41PM -0400

We will be joining the event.
Pete DePascale
Irish Mist
Branford
 
 
Peter DePascale
 
203-671-2420
 
 
On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 11:59 AM 329a...@gmail.com <329a...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
329a...@gmail.com <329a...@gmail.com>: Jul 18 06:10AM -0700

Hi Peter,
Glad you can join us. I’ll send more detailed times and locations in the
next few days.
Re moorings , I’m thinking. & talking with the Oyster Bay Marine Center
(OBMC) dockmaster that if we have more than 6 boats rafting , a mooring
makes more sense and ease. So far with you joining, we are 4 boats. We can
easily have an anchor down and raft for the day. If weather conditions
allow, we can stay rafted over night as well. I’m also asking if we can
have (paid) launch service to the anchored fleet and to OBMC as well for
those wishing to go ashore at some point .
If you raft to the anchored lot for the day and want to break off for a
mooring you could certainly contact OBMC and reserve a mooringfor overnight
but I’d do it quickly. Www.obmc.com
Best, Gary/Aloki
 
 
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 2:41:50 PM UTC-4 Peter DePascale wrote:
 
Rob Cohen \Soave\ NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com>: Jul 17 10:08AM -0700

This season, I noticed Soave's fridge seemed warmer than I would like. I
threw a thermometer in and checked it periodically and generally saw temps
in the mid 40's but on warm days I would see 55ºF or so... I began to
research options.
 
I'm not a fan of how our current fridge is integrated into our galley, but
Soave has many more pressing maintenance items than marginal refrigeration,
so I decided to focus on a quick fix in place approach so we'd have cold
beverages while working on other maintenance items.
 
I couldn't find any gas leaks so I topped-off the refrigerant ( R134A ) and
will continue to monitor for performance and gas leaks. So far performance
has been satisfactory. I was able to adjust the thermostat to a middle
position and mostly maintain satisfactory temp.
 
To monitor performance I added temp/humidity loggers in Soave's fridge,
cabin, and engine compartment. The data surprised me, and may motivate me
to make some changes. Below is the data I collected. 7/14 was the day I
topped the refrigerant and added the real time logging.
 
*First Observation* - My compressor ( isotherm ) is in my engine
compartment. It's user manual says performance will start to decline when
ambient temps exceed 95ºF. This week my engine compartment was over 100º
F. for several hours a day and when it was Soave's compressor could not
maintain the set temp in her fridge. Each night the compressor "caught up"
as evidenced by cycles in both fridge temp and engine room temp ( the
sensor is near the compressor ) When compressor is on if it's extracting a
meaningful about of heat the temp in the engine compartment rises, if it's
not able to extract heat it does not show on the temp monitor.
 
*Second Observation* - Compressor is drawing air randomly from a high
location in Soave's engine compartment. Air from her bilge would be much
cooler.
 
*Opportunity/Hypothesis *- Some "best effort" ductwork and a small exhaust
fan wired to come on when temps exceed 95ºF might improve performance of
Soave's fridge and any other temp sensitive equipment in my engine
compartment.
 
*Questions for the group* -
 
1. Has anyone attempted to moderate engine compartment temps ? If so
what did you do and how well did it work ?
2. Will a more moderate temp have other benefits for other equipment in
the engine compartment ?
3. Any tricks I can use to help the isotherm perform better in high
temps ?
4. Other thoughts ? Like I'm crazy for even collecting temp data.
 
 
[image: Screenshot 2024-07-17 at 12.47.28 PM.png]
 
Thanks,
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 11:08AM -0700

Rob,
 
Personally, I admire people who collect data so in answer to your fourth
question: good on you!
 
I don't know the N33s, so my few comments should be taken with several
grains of salt, but:
 
1. A number of the other models came with blowers in the engine
compartment that are ducted to clamshell vents on the coaming sides, and
those could be brought into play to cool the engine compartment
2. Unless the N33s were built to a higher standard than the N26's that I
know best, you may want to take a look at the insulation around your fridge
and see if there's any way to beef it up. When I put refrigeration into my
previous N26, I both decreased its size by putting additional insulating
walls and floor on the inside, AND injected foam into the empty spaces
between it and the surrounding cabinetry. The factory-installed insulation
was just an inch or two around the box. (I think there's a section in the
New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide on this topic.)

-- Bob
 
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
 
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 10:08:26 AM UTC-7 Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33
Westport, CT wrote:
 
Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 02:31PM -0400

My almost 40 year old unit is installed behind the stove and I’ve never had a problem with it.
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 2:08 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: Re: Marine Refrigeration - AKA Cold Beer
 
Rob,
 
Personally, I admire people who collect data so in answer to your fourth question: good on you!
 
I don't know the N33s, so my few comments should be taken with several grains of salt, but:
1.. A number of the other models came with blowers in the engine compartment that are ducted to clamshell vents on the coaming sides, and those could be brought into play to cool the engine compartment
2.. Unless the N33s were built to a higher standard than the N26's that I know best, you may want to take a look at the insulation around your fridge and see if there's any way to beef it up. When I put refrigeration into my previous N26, I both decreased its size by putting additional insulating walls and floor on the inside, AND injected foam into the empty spaces between it and the surrounding cabinetry. The factory-installed insulation was just an inch or two around the box. (I think there's a section in the New Nonsuch Owners Quick Guide on this topic.)
 
-- Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
 
 
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 10:08:26 AM UTC-7 Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT wrote:
 
This season, I noticed Soave's fridge seemed warmer than I would like. I threw a thermometer in and checked it periodically and generally saw temps in the mid 40's but on warm days I would see 55ºF or so... I began to research options.
 
I'm not a fan of how our current fridge is integrated into our galley, but Soave has many more pressing maintenance items than marginal refrigeration, so I decided to focus on a quick fix in place approach so we'd have cold beverages while working on other maintenance items.
 
I couldn't find any gas leaks so I topped-off the refrigerant ( R134A ) and will continue to monitor for performance and gas leaks. So far performance has been satisfactory. I was able to adjust the thermostat to a middle position and mostly maintain satisfactory temp.
 
To monitor performance I added temp/humidity loggers in Soave's fridge, cabin, and engine compartment. The data surprised me, and may motivate me to make some changes. Below is the data I collected. 7/14 was the day I topped the refrigerant and added the real time logging.
 
First Observation - My compressor ( isotherm ) is in my engine compartment. It's user manual says performance will start to decline when ambient temps exceed 95ºF. This week my engine compartment was over 100º F. for several hours a day and when it was Soave's compressor could not maintain the set temp in her fridge. Each night the compressor "caught up" as evidenced by cycles in both fridge temp and engine room temp ( the sensor is near the compressor ) When compressor is on if it's extracting a meaningful about of heat the temp in the engine compartment rises, if it's not able to extract heat it does not show on the temp monitor.
 
Second Observation - Compressor is drawing air randomly from a high location in Soave's engine compartment. Air from her bilge would be much cooler.
 
Opportunity/Hypothesis - Some "best effort" ductwork and a small exhaust fan wired to come on when temps exceed 95ºF might improve performance of Soave's fridge and any other temp sensitive equipment in my engine compartment.
 
Questions for the group -
1.. Has anyone attempted to moderate engine compartment temps ? If so what did you do and how well did it work ?
2.. Will a more moderate temp have other benefits for other equipment in the engine compartment ?
3.. Any tricks I can use to help the isotherm perform better in high temps ?
4.. Other thoughts ? Like I'm crazy for even collecting temp data.
 
 
 
 
Thanks,
Rob Cohen
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Westport, CT
 
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Mike BIANKA <biank...@verizon.net>: Jul 18 04:26AM -0700

When my the engine driven refrigeration system stopped working. I went with
a 40 quart Engel 12/120 volt
refrigerator/freezer. https://amzn.to/3y2OCxl It sits in the cabin on the
port side and allows easier to access than the built in icebox in the
Nonsuch. It operates 24/7 on 12 volts and has never run down the battery
bank which is connected to two 75 watt solar panels. I find it better to
use than the built in icebox. I use the icebox as dry storage for things
like my bread maker etc... It also serves as a convenient seat to use the
cabin table without opening up the table.
 
Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U
Long Island

On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 2:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Valinoti wrote:
 
Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 11:14AM -0700

FWIW, Practical Sailor recently had an article in which they suggested
using dyneema loops with chafe guards on the deck cleats to create room for
more docklines than could attach to the cleats themselves. Then attach the
extra lines to those loops.
 
Have not tested this myself.
 
-- Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
 
Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 03:58PM -0400

Sounds like a lot more time to tie up when you might be busy docking. Also, my concern is tying a knot that will come apart easily when undocking. Of course, I am a terrible knot tier!!
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 2:14 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: Re: More storm mooring attachment points
 
FWIW, Practical Sailor recently had an article in which they suggested using dyneema loops with chafe guards on the deck cleats to create room for more docklines than could attach to the cleats themselves. Then attach the extra lines to those loops.
 
Have not tested this myself.
 
-- Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
 
 
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 5:34:13 AM UTC-7 joes...@gmail.com wrote:
 
I think the problem is in the direction of pull. You’d have to have rather large backing plates to absorb the load. You might be better off increasing the size of the deck cleats. Fortunately Nonsuches have a wonderful device called a “Sampson Post” forward.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Sea Cents
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 8:38 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: More storm mooring attachment points
 
Dear Nonsuchers,
 
Anyone ever installed additional transom pad eyes or towing loops? I am constantly securing my Nonsuch 33 for storms and hurricanes and go with the philosophy of every rope I own and finally my shoe laces! My problem is attachment points for a storm that could swing 360 degrees. I thought i would install some large U-bolt type towing eyes on either side of the transom for some attachment points that were really easy with shackles. When i climbed under to inspect i was quite suprised to see sun shine coming through the transom! Apparently its quite thin. With proper load displacement (large backing plates) it might be okay. Just wanted to connect with collective expertise in this phenomenal group! Should i risk pulling of the transom?
 
Your thoughts and recommendations much appreciated.
 
Tim
Mistoffelees
Nonsuch 33 #32
Cayman Islands
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Sea Cents <n19...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 04:23PM -0500

Yep! Could do with more of them.
 
Tim Austin
Mistoffelees NS33 #32
Cayman Islands
 
Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 08:40PM -0400

Must take a good part of your playtime to get underway, Sea Cents. This be me -
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Sea Cents
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 5:23 PM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: More storm mooring attachment points
 
 
 
Yep! Could do with more of them.
 
Tim Austin
Mistoffelees NS33 #32
Cayman Islands
 
On Wed, 17 Jul 2024 at 3:02 PM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Sounds like a lot more time to tie up when you might be busy docking. Also, my concern is tying a knot that will come apart easily when undocking. Of course, I am a terrible knot tier!!
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 2:14 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: Re: More storm mooring attachment points
 
FWIW, Practical Sailor recently had an article in which they suggested using dyneema loops with chafe guards on the deck cleats to create room for more docklines than could attach to the cleats themselves. Then attach the extra lines to those loops.
 
Have not tested this myself.
 
-- Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status
 
 
On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 5:34:13 AM UTC-7 joes...@gmail.com wrote:
 
I think the problem is in the direction of pull. You’d have to have rather large backing plates to absorb the load. You might be better off increasing the size of the deck cleats. Fortunately Nonsuches have a wonderful device called a “Sampson Post” forward.
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
 
 
 
~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
 
From: Sea Cents
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2024 8:38 PM
To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Subject: More storm mooring attachment points
 
Dear Nonsuchers,
 
Anyone ever installed additional transom pad eyes or towing loops? I am constantly securing my Nonsuch 33 for storms and hurricanes and go with the philosophy of every rope I own and finally my shoe laces! My problem is attachment points for a storm that could swing 360 degrees. I thought i would install some large U-bolt type towing eyes on either side of the transom for some attachment points that were really easy with shackles. When i climbed under to inspect i was quite suprised to see sun shine coming through the transom! Apparently its quite thin. With proper load displacement (large backing plates) it might be okay. Just wanted to connect with collective expertise in this phenomenal group! Should i risk pulling of the transom?
 
Your thoughts and recommendations much appreciated.
 
Tim
Mistoffelees
Nonsuch 33 #32
Cayman Islands
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Peter DePascale <bathwo...@gmail.com>: Jul 17 02:45PM -0400

Gary, do you have any information on moorings yet.
Pete D
 
Peter DePascale
 
203-671-2420
 
 
On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 1:43 PM 329a...@gmail.com <329a...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
Brian @ SV Serenity <darth.s...@googlemail.com>: Jul 17 10:59AM -0700

Bob,
I have the same kind of track on both of my masts, but I have pretty little
bronze cars. For some reason I don't necessarily get, the main often
struggles going up (with the whole two-person job that's described below),
and the last several feet never seem to go easily. I've got an electric
winch, but normally only use it for the first half if I don't have two
people on board. In reverse, the sail rarely wants to come down by
itself. I have done the dish soap thing once or twice, but don't recall it
made a lot of difference.
 
Here's the kicker: Mizzen sail goes up like a dream and slides back down
the same way. Go figure.
 
Brian
SV Serenity
Nonsuch Nereus #003
Pax River, MD
 
On Tuesday, July 9, 2024 at 8:14:21 PM UTC-4 Bob Gehrman wrote:
 
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Joe Valinoti

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Jul 18, 2024, 2:24:43 PM (4 days ago) Jul 18
to INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Others disagree, but I have always been in favor of the traditional packing style stuffing boxes for reasons such as this.  Isn’t there a NS30 in Connecticut that someone is parting out??  You could possible get the whole set up.
 
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA


~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce Clark

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Jul 19, 2024, 7:07:27 AM (3 days ago) Jul 19
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Sounds like your problem is with the tube that the dripless bearing mounts to rather than with the bearing itself. I think the best solution would need to be done out of the water since the seal, dripless or not, needs to slip up the shaft, or worst case the shaft needs to be pulled. To get you to haul out may be possible to plug the leak in the in the fg sleeve. If you can tell where the leak is you can use underwater epoxy. Here is one product, but there are others. To prep try to clean the substrate as much as possible, with bronze wool. This stuff when mixed is a thick paste that you push into and around the crack. Once you are out of the water you can decide what next.

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