NS33 - What's this for ?

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

PO said she never used it.  

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

Photo below........

 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[Barbara Melanson]

Maybe for a Cunningham?

Barbara Melanson

Gimlet II. 33 24

Noank, CT

On Nov 12, 2023, at 1:10 PM, Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

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[Ken Dakin]

Perhaps it is a preventer to stop the stern end of the boom from swinging while docked or under power. I have a similar block and tackle setup for my preventer. Mine extends between the bale on the stern end of the boom ( where the upper main sheet block is attached to the boom) down to the stern port corner casting with the chock. The cam cleat end is at bottom end. Before I raise the sail, I disconnect the preventer from the bale and coil it on the quarter deck so it can’t slip overboard.

Ken Dakin

NS 33 #7

Sashay

Kingston ON

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 12, 2023, at 1:10 PM, Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

PO said she never used it.  

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

Photo below........

<Block & Tackle.jpg>

 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

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<Block & Tackle.jpg>

[Joe Valinoti]

I have one I made up to haul things up like bodies people who might have fallen overboard and when I had one, to lift my outboard.  I hang it from the bail on the end of my wishbone.  It’s way too complicated for the simple use of keeping the wishbone in place.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

It sure likes like a boom vang for a conventional sailboat to me.

Another use for it might be crew overboard rescue, say in conjunction with a device like a Lifesling.    One procedure for helping someone who's unable to climb back into the boat themselves is to circle them until they can get the Lifesling on, pull them close to the boat, shackle one end  of a block and tackle like yours to the boom and the other to the Lifesling, then use it to pull the individual up to deck level.

You can see an instructional video that illustrates this at https://48north.com/instructional/tbt-how-to-use-a-lifesling-video/ 

Skip to about 2:56 in to get to the part which actually shows the block and tackle part.

Intended use as a boom vang or for this purpose would be consistent with the 35' of line you mentioned.  That length seems too short to be used as a jibe preventer for a winged-out sail, and longer than needed for holding the boom fixed athwartships.  

I've never worried about sail shape enough to use a cunningham, I must blush and confess.   How much purchase does one of them need?  This looks like more than I'd thought was needed for that.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Thanks All.... The 4:1 purchase is about what I'd guess you'd need for a cunningham,  as Barbara suggests.  I'll keep an eye out for a stray cunningham hook.

The other possible uses also sound plausible.

My sail is an older Doyle that I plan on using next season... but will need to start shopping for a replacement.  Anyone have a great experience a particular sailmaker ?  

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[BRIAN CAYER]



Rob,

First of all congrats on acquiring Soave. I was a contender for her before the PO put her in the hands of a yacht broker. Nice boat, nice lady but in the end it didn’t work out. I do know she put an awfully lot of work via the yard into the upgrade. As for the block and tackle I would think that could be used in conjunction with a fixture that slid into the two holes in the aft end of the wishboom that allowed one to hoist an outboard to a stern rail motor mount or even a MOB back onto the cockpit. I forgot who came up with the thing but I saw it here on the INA discussion group.

Good Sailing,

Brian Cayer

S/V Spirit~Wind

N30U 419

Deep River, CT

On Nov 12, 2023, at 1:10 PM, Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

PO said she never used it.  

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

Photo below........

<Block & Tackle.jpg>

 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

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<Block & Tackle.jpg>

[Pat Furr]

I’d be careful using too much power (4:1 ma) on a Cunningham.  

I have torn the luff of my sail with too much power. 

Pat Furr

Charlotte, VT

NS26C “Bandolero”

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[Joe Valinoti]

The simplicity of our rig is such that it shouldn’t need a cunningham.  I'm not sure how you would rig one anyway.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Pat Furr

Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 5:29 PM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: NS33 - What's this for ?

 

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

And I'd be REALLY careful about using a standard-type gybe preventer on a Nonsuch !!!  

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Paul Miller]

I’m with Brian. I think it’s an outboard motor tackle.

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Ward Woodruff]

Maybe connect to end of boom the retrieve person in water with lifesling. 

Ward Woodruff

N33#8 Margery

Niantic Bay, CT

On Nov 12, 2023, at 8:37 PM, Ken Dakin <kend...@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps it is a preventer to stop the stern end of the boom from swinging while docked or under power. I have a similar block and tackle setup for my preventer. Mine extends between the bale on the stern end of the boom ( where the upper main sheet block is attached to the boom) down to the stern port corner casting with the chock. The cam cleat end is at bottom end. Before I raise the sail, I disconnect the preventer from the bale and coil it on the quarter deck so it can’t slip overboard.

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[Rob Cohen]

Doing a little more brainstorming on possible uses for the block and tackle I found stowed, and got to thinking maybe it could play a role in wishbone inspection / maintenance ? 

What is the procedure for lowering the wishbone on a 33 without using a hoist or crane ?

-

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

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[Joe Valinoti]

Simple, just use the halyard to lower the forward end down.  Then use the topping lift to lower the aft end.  Have something to hold it up off the cabin top. 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Rob Cohen

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 7:56 AM

To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: NS33 - What's this for ?

 

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Simply put, Rob, you place a ladder up against the mast. You end up using the main halyard to slowly lower the boom to the deck/supports. You use the power of the halyard winch to do the dirty/hard work.

The above is minus ALL of the neccesary details that go with the job (that are essential). You do not require a hoist or crane or cherry picker, etc.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ward Woodruff]

To lower the wishboom on a 33:

Place an extension ladder on the cabin top forward of the forward hatch.  

Extend the ladder so the ladder top is between the wishboom and supported by the aft side of the mast. 

Tie a bridle to each side of the wishboom aft of the mast. 

Connect the halyard to the bridle

Tension the halyard with the halyard winch to take the load off of the boom hangar wires. 

Remove the shackles connecting the hangar wires to the wishboom. 

Tie the hangar wires to the mast. 

Remove the extension ladder. 

Lower the boom to deck level with the halyard and its winch. 

Deal with the clew end of the wishboom as necessary. 

Ward Woodruff

413-847-0620 cell

On Nov 13, 2023, at 2:57 PM, Rob Cohen <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Greg Silver]

Hi Rob,

I agree with those who identify it as a lifting hoist to attach to your wishboom. I carry one on my boats. Useful for retrieving MOB in a Lifesling or lifting an outboard to your pushpit. In these cases, assuming sail is down, suggest attaching halyard to aft end of wishboom for full support of the load and take strain off topping lift. Also I have used this rig on my spare halyard to lift a dinghy from sea onto the coach roof. 

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St. Peter’s, Cape Breton

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Rob -

Ward's instructions are bang-on. The last thing that I would do would be to lower the clew (aft) end of the boom using the topping lift.

Here's a little diagram to "clarify" the placement of the ladder. Make darn sure that you put a safety tie from the ladder to the mast, at both the bottom end and the top end of the ladder.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

Ernie:  What’s the problem with using the topping lift??  I’ve done that for the last 20 years on at least 5 or 6 Nonsuches.

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

~~~~~(\_ ~(\_ ~(\_~~~~~~~~~~

 

From: Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 1:34 PM

To: INA Nonsuch Discussion Group

Subject: Re: NS33 - What's this for ?

 

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[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

I had to build on of those myself just for loading eight 6V batteries onto White O'morn.  I think that is called a Handy Billy, great for lifting almost anything.
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[BRIAN CAYER]

Is there anyone that recalls the rig that fit into the two holes in the aft casting of the wishboom? It provided for the attachment of the block and tackle being discussed and an easy hookup as well.

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

Deep River, CT

On Nov 13, 2023, at 5:23 PM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Joe -

Whoa ..... whoa. I meant that the FINAL thing that I did (after lowering the front of the boom) was to, indeedy-do, use the topping lift to lower the back of the boom.

But ...... yeh, I could have been a tad clearer.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

roger that, Ernie.

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

4:1 is way more than what is required for a cunningham.  The current sail on La Reina has a luff that is exactly the max allowed under the INA Racing rules. In down wind and in light air up wind it is fine, but while beating into 15 plus knots of apparent wind scallops start to develop in the luff. The sail is at maximum hoist so hardening up on the halyard does not take the scallops out. Because of that I added a cunningham. I know it is only on a 26 but I can easily put enough tension on it to take the scallops out of the luff. It is a 2:1 purchase using a low friction ring.

The block and tackle can be used for hoisting items such as outboards or taking someone up the mast. I use the same rig for a preventer when La Reina is at rest. It is overkill for that use as a preventer, however I also use it as part of a man overboard recovery system in conjenction with two wire strops around the boom. If you go to the INA website, sign in and look under "Tips" you can find an article for A MOB Rescue Tackle that shows the system.

Mark Powers

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Thanks, Mark.

Safety is important, so I feel ok posting the document here in the discussion group.

I still encourage folks to look at the website.   Lotsa good stuff there.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch e26U #233

[BRIAN CAYER]

Thanks for posting that well documented and clear presentation. I saved it to my boat stuff in Books. My memory is still trying to grasp the rig that slides into the two holes in the casting at the aft end of the wishbone boom and extends the aft reach for a vertical hoist. It involved a board and a couple of pipes and a shackle to hook the tackle.

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

30U 419

Deep River, CT

On Nov 14, 2023, at 11:48 AM, Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<Nonsuch MOB Rescue Tackle 2010.pdf>

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Thanks Mark,   I'll continue to sort through the odds and ends on Soave and I'll bet I'll find the wire strops also.

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

 

[Rob Powers]

Hi,

Years ago I was reading a book on sailing that recommended one of these for every sail boat. They called it a "Handy Billy" and could be used for many many things including taking the load off a line to clear an override in a winch.

Rob Powers

Respite 26C #50

Sidney BC

[W C]

I had considered something like this to hang from the end of the boom to use as a crane to get heavy or awkward gear on to the boat.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:10 PM Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

PO said she never used it.  

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

Photo below........

 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

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[Charles A. Mitchell, III]

Looks like a boom vang. 

Chuck Mitchell

NS 33

S/V Chill

Cape Cod

used to live in Westport

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[(null) (null)]

I agree. It looks like a boom vang. You need the third (or fourth) cringle at the bottom of the luff of course (not Chris). I attach mine to the U bolt just aft of the mast where the luff reef lines are tied. I use it as a mini reef and it works very well. Sail shape is still good even without any matching leach line. Yours is a damn nice looking piece of gear.

Fair Winds,

Dave King

N22 Suey, Alameda

On Nov 24, 2023, at 3:46 AM, W C <blue...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had considered something like this to hang from the end of the boom to use as a crane to get heavy or awkward gear on to the boat.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:10 PM Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

PO said she never used it.  

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

Photo below........

<Block & Tackle.jpg> 

Any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

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[Bruce Clark]

Wouldn’t that make it more of a cunningham than a boom vang? A vang attachs to the boom, usually 40% or so of the way aft of mast.

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[theen...@comcast.net]

I have a similar one of those and I use it, all of the time.

 

Think mine is of lighter tackle but very similar with a jam cleat.  No one is allowed on deck or cabin top unless the wishbone is secure with that rig, along with the mainsheet,  that prevents wishbone motion.

I found it on the boat when I bought it and simply found a quick and easy method to secure and release the wishbone.  Works like a champ.

I think it has a multitude of potential uses and worth having on the boat.  In my case, it has a positive, safety use and at the same time I found a place to store it. 

 

I can think of, a number, potential applications for using this rig and think it good business just to have around.  Lifting a netful of beer onto the boat could be another good use.

 

Anyways, those are my thoughts and remember that I am entitled to my very own ridiculous opinion.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196  “Whiskers II”

SIYC Slip 12

Solomons, MD

 

 

From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Charles A. Mitchell, III
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2023 9:01 AM
To: INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: NS33 - What's this for ?

 

Looks like a boom vang. 

Chuck Mitchell

NS 33

S/V Chill

Cape Cod

used to live in Westport

On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 6:47 AM W C <blue...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had considered something like this to hang from the end of the boom to use as a crane to get heavy or awkward gear on to the boat.

 

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 1:10 PM Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

While going through the gear stowed on my recently purchased NS33, I found a nearly new 4:1 block & tackle setup with snap shackles on both ends and a jam cleat.  It was in the starboard  lazarette.  It's rigged with about 35' of 3/8" line.  Seems very intentional.

 

I'm stumped regarding how and when this might be useful on a NS33.  

 

PO said she never used it.  

 

Boat already has fully rigged dinghy davits. 

 

Photo below........

 

 

 

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

 

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[Tim in STL, NS26Ue White O'morn]

Butch,

Could you expand on that.  You use it all the time, but how?  Where is it attached?  Are you using it as a preventer?

Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO

[theen...@comcast.net]

Hi Tim,

 

Could not think of the word before.  In coordination with a taught mainsheet, it is a “preventer”.  The picture to the left shows conection to an eye on the port stern and to the right the connection to boom end.  I simply unjam the line and release snap shackle at boom end.  I then lower the rig to the deck.  It’s not going to go anywhere.    Upon sail drop, with mainsheet taught I simply lift rig up and snap back onto the wishbone end.  Pull line to jam.

 

As we all know, the wishbone is heavy and if not secured it’ll go wherever it wants to even with a taught mainsheet.   I was concerned about someone getting knocked overboard and quickly grabbed the rig which I did know it’s purpose and I gave it one.  I like it so well I’ve left it there and no one is allowed deck top or cabin top without the preventer rig and mainsheet securing the boom.  I was encouraged to do this because of a calm day in my slip with the wishbone being held only by a taught mainsheet tha a mild wake got the boom moving around make a crew member lose balance a little.  I became concerned.

 

May be over-kill but it makes me comfortable knowing that crew and guests are safe.  BTW, I follow my own rules. 

 

The rig is always there to be removed to be used for something else if need be.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196  “Whiskers II”

SIYC Slip 12

Solomons, MD

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/83c3837f-a659-461f-88dd-e2117e36b945n%40googlegroups.com.

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Sorry, I meant to say Cunningham, or perhaps flattener.

Dave 

On Nov 25, 2023, at 8:59 AM, theen...@comcast.net wrote:

Hi Tim,

 

Could not think of the word before.  In coordination with a taught mainsheet, it is a “preventer”.  The picture to the left shows conection to an eye on the port stern and to the right the connection to boom end.  I simply unjam the line and release snap shackle at boom end.  I then lower the rig to the deck.  It’s not going to go anywhere.    Upon sail drop, with mainsheet taught I simply lift rig up and snap back onto the wishbone end.  Pull line to jam.

 

As we all know, the wishbone is heavy and if not secured it’ll go wherever it wants to even with a taught mainsheet.   I was concerned about someone getting knocked overboard and quickly grabbed the rig which I did know it’s purpose and I gave it one.  I like it so well I’ve left it there and no one is allowed deck top or cabin top without the preventer rig and mainsheet securing the boom.  I was encouraged to do this because of a calm day in my slip with the wishbone being held only by a taught mainsheet tha a mild wake got the boom moving around make a crew member lose balance a little.  I became concerned.

 

May be over-kill but it makes me comfortable knowing that crew and guests are safe.  BTW, I follow my own rules. 

 

The rig is always there to be removed to be used for something else if need be.

 

<image001.png> <image002.png>

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196  “Whiskers II”

SIYC Slip 12

Solomons, MD

<image003.png>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/036e01da1fc0%24c963be30%245c2b3a90%24%40comcast.net.