Nonsuch Nereus 40 - Ocean Crosser?

[Craig Macdonald]

Would you say the Nonsuch 40 is oceanworthy? 

[Mariner's Cat V 26C Brentwood Bay BC]

I don't think having two masts solves the underlying issues....but I am no expert in such matters

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Craig, 

I don't have an answer for you. I have not sailed off shore, nor have I sailed a Nereus or even seen one except in pictures. As I have stated in the past I have not let ignorance stand in the way of a long answer so what follows are my thoughts guess and ramblings.

I am attaching (I hope) a spread sheet that compares the Nereus to the Freedom 44 cat ketch and the Tanton Offshore 43 cat ketch. The first set of calculations for the Nereus are based on the data contained in the brochure on the INA website. The second set is based on data from Sailboat Data. The significant difference is the capsize ratio. Standard wisdom (Practical Sailor) is that a boat should have a capsize screening ratio  below 2.00 (the number is significant to two decimal points) to be safe for offshore work.  Based on the brochure data the Nereus has a ratio of 2.05 while the Sailboat Data gives a ratio of 1.89.  Here is a description of the capsize formula:

"Capsize Screening Formula (CSF): 
Designed to determine if a boat has blue water capability. The CSF compares beam with displacement since excess beam contributes to capsize and heavy displacement reduces capsize vulnerability. The boat is better suited for ocean passages (vs coastal cruising) if the result of the calculation is 2.0 or less. The lower the better.
CSF = Beam/Disp (cubic ft)^.333. The displacement in cubic feet can be found by dividing the displacement in pounds by 64. "

The Sailboat Data shows a higher displacement for the Nereus than the brochure, hence the better capsize number.  I don't know if the displacement number given in the brochure is empty or light ship. The report experience of Nonsuch owners is that their boats are heavier than the design weight so that my be true for the Nereus as well. The extra displacement if correct gives a lower sail area to displacement ratio of 15.52.  Below 16 is usually considered a bit under powered.

 

The Nereus unlike the Nonsuch range has a high bridge deck so is less likely to suffer from down flooding through the companionway. The two masts create redundancy, lose a mast and you still have another to take you home. The smaller sails willeasier to handle when the wind pipes up. A sail out on either side of the boat helps balance the boat downwind and the booms do not hang out as far when running. The sail area of the Nereus is about double the sail area of a 26 (420 sq ft times 2 gives 840 sq ft with two masts) so I will assume similar sail dimensions for the Nereus. 1/2 the beam of a Nereus is 7 ft and the foot of the 26 sail is 20' 4" which means the end of the boom on a Nereus is about 13 ft outside the hull when running. 1/2 the beam of a 36 is 6' 4" and the foot of the sail is 28' so the end of the boom will hang about 21' - 22' outside of the hull on a run. As a result the boom ends on the Nereus are less likely to dig in on a roll than the boom ends on a 36. The lower centre of effort on the sails will also help reduce the heel of the boat compared to a 36.

There is an letter on the INA site  (search "Mazza") regarding prepping a Nonsuch for offshore. A good idea would be to go through the letter and see how the Nereus is set up on each of those points. Based on the photos the Nereus has welded boom ends which is one of the items Bob Mazza recommended.

I note the Nereus has bigger fuel and water tanks than the Freedom or Tanton which is beneficial for offshore work. 

There are examples of the Nonsuch 30 crossing oceans although it was not intended for that purpose. The Nereus would be better suited to the role than the 30 but I can't answer the question: "is it ocean worthy". 

Mark Powers

[newelljc9]

For ocean work, it would be prudent to lower the wishbones and rig the sails loose footed.to reduce weight and windage aloft while preventing them from creating a din while in the doldrums.  It is taxing enough being becalmed for a day while a hurricane is heading your way as happened to us on a voyage from New York to Bermuda on a 37' cutter. 

If I had a choice, I would choose the long keel version of the Freedom.

John Newell

Mascouche 26C1

Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Craig,

here is an article I just came across.

 It is written by Gary Hoyt and talks about sailing the Freedom 40 cat ketch.  It makes an interesting read and it may have some ideas that are useful on the Nereus.

Mark Powers

[Bruce Clark]

An interesting question. I will give a variation of the answer I posted in the FB group. I am on my second N30, almost 40 years apart and have sailed almost 50k NM offshore, mainly on a Bristol 45.5. First thing I would mention is that there oceans and oceans. Huge difference between NYC to Bermuda and crossing the Indian Ocean to South Africa, let alone going to Antarctica. With any boat I was taking seriously offshore I would want to be able to have a balanced rig that I can make quite small for windy, but not really dangerous conditions, say 35 to 40 knots continuous. Double reefs in both sails would not be small enough I think and I have no idea how the boat would be with a double-reefed forward sail and nothing aft. Also, would have to see how the boat would heave-to. Not sure how that would work. I would take a Nereus on an Atlantic loop via Bermuda and Azores over and Canaries and Caribbean back. Would take it across the Pacific via Marquesas and on to Suez. Would not take one across to South Africa, we just got used to 25 to 40+ knots for weeks on end. Final comment, one of the Nereus series was built with a conventional cutter rig. Before we bought the Bristol we had a verbal agreement to buy this boat on three occasions but the seller kept moving the goalposts and asking for more money each time and lastly not agreeing to a sea trial. The boat was in Maine but last I heard it was on the west coast - Seattle area I think.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Who are you ??  What is your name, etc ?? Are you a member of the INA (I hope.).

I ask because, with your experience, you fall into a particular bracket of sailor that many, many of us would just love to be able to hear what you have to contribute and have the good fortune to to ask questions of you.

Let us know, OK ??

Ernie A. in Toronto 

[Bruce Clark]

My name is Bruce Clark and I have just purchased Nonsuch, Gordon Fisher's original boat (Sail #1 but hull #2). Will be doing a major refit over the winter and hope to cruise in Newfoundland next summer. I am a long-time member of Whitby YC and INA member.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Thanks, Bruce. 

All the best with this classic vessel.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Bruce, welcome to the Nonsuch clan.

 For future reference the practice on this forum is to include your name, Boat name, model and home port in either the signature block. That makes it easier for other readers to provide good advice and assistance. I have not figured out how to add a full signature block so rather than typing it out each time I added it to my profile so it appears in the "From" line each time I respond.

If you go to the user guide it provides some assistance is setting up the profile.

Mark Powers

[Craig Macdonald]

Thanks for the response! 

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Craig,

The designer of all our Nonsuch and Nereus boats, Mark Ellis, is still in business and can be found at http://www.markellisyachtdesign.com/

If you have not already done so, I strongly suggest you get in touch with him to discuss the condition of your specific boat and the conditions you're likely to encounter on any offshore excursion you're planning.   He's put a great deal of thought into this and has advised a number of other sailors.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233