Some questions re: Nonsuch 260

[Mike Readshaw]

Hi all,

I've been browsing this very helpful group for a few weeks now as I am in the process of purchasing a Nonsuch 260 in British Columbia.

Is anyone able to suggest any particular things to look out for as potentially serious issues?  The survey came through with minimal recommendations, but I am specifically thinking of items that a surveyor who is not particularly familiar with the make may have missed (likely to do with the unique rig / CF mast, etc.)?

Additionally, would any 260 owners happen to have pictures of how their starboard settee converts into a double?

One of the previous owners of this boat installed a fixed table with folding leaves in the cabin sole and the seller has never used the settee as a double bunk.  Whatever insert or other system previously existed to permit the conversion to a double seems to be missing.  From the looks of it, it shouldn't be a huge issue to overcome with some time or $$, but I would love to get a sense of how this is accomplished on others' boats.

Apologies if these issues have been answered before.  I've spent quite a while combing through the group but have not seen these issues addressed head on.

This group is an amazing resource though!

Thank you,

Mike Readshaw - Vancouver, BC

[Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene]

Hi Mark

I don't know how the 260 is configured below but on the 26C we unbolted the cabin table a week after we got the boat and it has never gone back in. It was just too much in the way taking up space.

We have a cockpit enclosure and a folding table there and it works well for 4 of us to eat and sit in the cockpit.

There are sliding boards under the cushions that make the berths wider. We have it setup as two wide berths with a narrow walkway between instead of one large area. Extra storage for bags under the edge of the berth. 

Tom

26C #28

Penetang

[Richard Lane]

I removed the folding table from 1982 NS26c Swoose and replaced it with the cockpit table hung from the hanging locker door. The original table I use in my house but with the cabin sole nuts in place on the added stabilizing teak foot strips, in case I needed to sell the boat. It is a bit of a squeeze for 4 people, but trains you to keep your elbows close to your sides, giving the appearance of good dining manners.

Dick Lane

Swoose

Port Townsend

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 25, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Tom Schoenhofer 26C#28 North Star Penetanguishene <tschoe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mark

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Mike,

 I don't know much about the carbon fibre masts. The epoxy in the mast and boom need to be protected from UV so paint is essential. Re painting  is expensive so you will want to check the mast over to determine if the paint is in good condition. On some boats the screws holding the sail track to the mast have pulled out of the mast. You will want to check that as well. Here is a link to sail track repairs on a carbon mast for a 36 Nonsuch.  service_repair_sail_track_36

Based on a very few photos the table was designed to fold up against the bulkhead. I have attached a link to a photo showing the table top in the table position. If you look carefully you can see there is a cleat running along the from of the settee and a second one along the the bulkhead. I assume the based for the double berth rested on those two cleats plus a leg. I don't know if the table was used for the base or if the base was under the settee cushions. 90486257

This second link shows the table up against the bulkhead. You get a better view of the cleats.  90486958  The third photo is of the underside of the table from a different 260 120212602  If you go to the 260 pages of the Nonsuch Photo base you will find more pictures. You can see that there are slight variations in the table designs.

It would also be useful to look at the photos of the 324's on the Photo base. You see that some came with a fixed table and at least one, Dulcinea, came with a lifting table. 
The design of the table legs on Dulcinea and Barometer Soup (260) suggest the table tops for those two boats were used for the base of the berth. The leg has two pieces and two hinges. When used as a table it is opened on the short hinge across the end of the table. When it is used as a berth the long hinge on the side of the table is used to create a short leg. There is a short piece stored near the bottom of the table when it is raised abasing the bulk head. It looks like it forms a leg to support the table when used as a berth as well. The pictures are not clear enough to see how the hinges attach to the bulkhead. 

Good luck with the purchase.

Mark Powers

[Brian Berdan]

Hi Mike,

We have 260 #7, so welcome to the club!

First off, these boats are built great, and after 20 years of owning Blue September, we still think how lucky we were to find her.

Understanding that Hinterhoeller was going out of business as our boat was being finished, there were of course some minor issues, and that settee converting into a bunk is one of them.  The extension plywood board and two metal posts that loosely fit in the floorboards were in no way going to support us- I just don't think they finished the idea. So here's what we did (pictures attached):

Installed 4 "nutserts" into the ridge (or I guess 'cleat' since I emphatically trust Mark's nautical nomenclature) along the settee, having drilled four holes through the extension board into the cleat for alignment. Applied Velcro along the board (blue in the pictures) and along the lower back of the upright cushions (which had velcro across the upper back already).

Assembled two sturdier legs (during my 'galvanized pipe' phase when I built some home furnishings out of that great material).

The small long cushion goes down the middle of the berth between the seat and back cushions- I can't believe I didn't get a picture of it complete but you can imagine.  It just takes a couple minutes to convert, and as long no one sits on the very corner at the foot of the berth, it was served us well.

As Mark Powers said, the paint on the mast and boom are important and we had ours stripped down and repainted about 5 years ago, when the boat was 20 years old.  It was very "crackled" due, I believe, to the flexing the mast does.  In fact, not long after painting it seems to be reappearing, but still looks good.  When we inspected the mast, at first it looked like there was a crack around the deck contact point (right Mark, at the 'mast partners') but turned out to be just in the layer of smoothing filler on top of the carbon fibre.  Our mast had snapped in two (don't regret your impending purchase, don't panic!) in its first year of life before we owned her- the spar factory (Composite Engineering) rebuilt it and I've been out (switching to single pronoun here) in 30-35 knots... and it's still standing!  

Other issues have been normal, like rebedding the two hatches, as we had leaks in the forward one that would drip across above headliner and down the teak wall.  Yes on the sail track coming unscrewed- she came with a Tides sail track which was not installed correctly, allowing the screws to back out and jam the sail slides (exciting day, that was!).  Tides sail track needs to be riding on little one inch sections of conventional metal sail track, rather than screwed directly to the mast.

Our boat was ordered with a two burner range and oven- came with only a range.  Fuel tank was half the size listed in the specs, so I always carry a gerry can when on long trips.

But really, beyond that, very few insurmountable issues, and I'm out daysailing year round because it's so easy to get underway.

I'd be happy to talk with you about any specifics, and I look forward to meeting you when the Northwest Nonsuch Rendezvous rides again, hopefully this summer.

Brian & Susan Berdan

"Blue September" 260 #7

Bainbridge Island, Washington

[Brian Berdan]

Correction to the number of nutserts installed- 5 total.

Brian

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Brian, your trust is misplaced.

I have not seen threaded inserts with retaining bolts/screws before. Are they screw or nuts and bolts?  They look like a good idea. 

Mark Powers

[BRIAN BERDAN]

Can’t find the exact thing I used but these kinds of things:

https://www.mcmaster.com/nut-inserts/316-stainless-steel-tee-nut-inserts-for-wood/

Mine weren’t stainless and are starting to corrode a bit. 

Brian

Sent from my doohickey

On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C. <r...@shaw.ca> wrote:



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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Although I had not seen them before Home Depot and Canadian Tire carry them in stainless steel under the name of Hill an stainless steel round base Tee  nuts.

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners-Nuts-T-Nuts/Stainless-Steel/N-5yc1vZc2a4Z1z0yqai

Mark Powers

[Mike Readshaw]

Much appreciated all!

Brian - that system looks like a good solution to me.  I take it the extension board just lives comfortably under the cushions when not in use?  I am still wondering what to do about the table.  Currently it's bolted to the cabin sole and would have to be removed to accommodate the double berth.  The boat will see quite a bit of use with 4 people on board.

A table the folds up against the forward bulkhead would be a good solution.  However, this 260 has an opening in the bulkhead similar to this vessel: https://pbase.com/nonsuch/image/106181980.  A folding table would be obscure the opening when folded up and would basically just look a bit weird (but still potentially the best solution...?).  Alternatively there might be an opportunity to move the fixed table to another location in the cabin.  Or potentially just remove it entirely on trips when the double settee-berth will be required and plan to eat in the cockpit... Something to live with for a bit and ponder over.

Re: a few of the other comments, the sail track system on this vessel suffered from the same issue that several of you have described a few years ago, and it has been professionally fixed.  One less thing to worry about!

Managed to get out for a sail on Saturday in flat water and about 15 knots (so admittedly pretty ideal conditions), and was really pleased with the performance.

I'll keep my eye out for news re: the Nonsuch Rendezvous!  Sounds great.

Thanks again to all who replied!

Mike Readshaw

[Brian Berdan]

Yes, the extension board stays under the cushions.  Is there a panel that slides up to fill that hole in the bulkhead for privacy?  I hope.  We find the table as mounted on the wall to be very practical, and perhaps you'd have the table down when the opening is open.

Mark, who should Mike contact about getting on the list for the Northwest group these days so he gets invited?

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

I haven't tried either of these designs myself, but in case of interest, here are two other approaches to the table problem.

The NS30C Stowable Table design is posted on the members-only side of the INA web site under "Members Tips and Projects", credited to Alan, “Corvus” NS30C #216, Toronto, BPYC.

The Alternative Table Design was produced by Tony Clark.  I extracted it from historical documents that the INA is currently processing, and expects to make available to members on the website.

My personal dream is to design a removable table that can break down in such a way that part of it serves to convert a settee to a double while the rest could somehow be mounted as a privacy partition to separate the saloon area from the galley and quarterberths.  AND, also, conveniently stow entirely out of the way when not needed.  Still working on it.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Mike R and Brian,

 I am the contact person for the Nonsuch Niagara North West Association.

Mark Powers

[Joe Valinoti]

This is my mod with the table -

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Richard Lane]

Joe, is that blue line in your last photo a harness safety line? On a Swoose I ran my web safety straight around the front of the mast so I don’t have to unclip even when dashing around retrieving or hanging my fenders.

Regards, Dick Lane

NS26c #35 Swoose

Port Townsend

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On Mar 31, 2021, at 7:23 PM, Joe Valinoti <joes...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Dick -

That is a very good suggestion regarding your jacklines. Smart.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Joe Valinoti]

Sorry, guys, that last photo was a mistake. It shows the traveller line for use when racing.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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