New name for my Nonsuch

[Phil Orsay]

Hello, I have been sailing in Corsica (Mediterranean Sea) for 2 months to discover my new Nonsuch 30 Ultra. I am going to do a big refit before having the project in 2025 a tour of the Mediterranean then in 2026 a crossing of the Atlantic. So I'm going to have a lot of questions to help me make my choices. The boat was called Noradipula and has now been renamed Karibu.
My projects: 1 new sail, new companionway hood and bimini, overhaul of the mast with a new rail

Philippe Dupront

KARIBU NS30U # 384

Cap d’Agde / France

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Philippe,

Given your plans for the boat, I'd strongly advise going to the documents on the www.Nonsuch.org website available by clicking on the MEMBERS tab and selecting MAINTENANCE.   Not only will this give you the link to Mike Quill, the original rigger for the boats, but it will give you a lot of material on upgrading your boat. 

Under the SPARS & RIGGING section of the MAINTENANCE page, you'll find five documents (It may not be obvious, but you have to scroll through this subsection to see them all).  I'd particularly recommend you look at the fifth, a five-page memo written in 1991 by Rob Mazza (who worked for the boat designer Mark Ellis).  This memo is a fairly good list of the recommended upgrades before taking a Nonsuch offshore.  All of our boats were designed as coastal cruisers rather than offshore boats, so thinking hard about these upgrades is extremely important.

The most recent sailor that I'm aware of having taken a Nonsuch across the Atlantic is Simon Cleaver.  I don't know if he's still reachable; I believe his boat is/was recently up for sale.  But you might want to track him down for advice.  You can also search this discussion group archives for his posts.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[esan...@gmail.com]

Congratulations on your new Nonsuch,  Philippe.  I hope you are enjoying her.  I'd love to see a photo if you have one.

Elsie Sands

Seven Stars

Nonsuch 26C

Maple Bay, BC

[Bruce Clark]

I am happy to offer whatever help I can. I have circumnavigated, not on a Nonsuch, and done New York City to Bermuda a few times on a Nonsuch. 

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[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Philippe,

Congratulations.  Sounds like Karibu is a great boat for you.  I am also relatively new to NonSuch.  I've given a lot of thought about where we will travel with Soave.

A few weeks ago, I assisted on a return trip delivery for one of the boats that raced in this year's Newport/Bermuda race.  This was my first blue water sailing experience and I loved every minute of it.  I was fascinated by how different bluewater sailing is from coastal sailing.   I was lucky to be on a well prepared boat with a great team.  I will seek to repeat this experience on other boats and with other sailors and I will not be shy about asking questions and in some cases declining to participate if not confident in the boat or the team.

This year's Newport/Bermuda race, didn't have any deaths or serious injuries, but three boats were lost ( two while racing and one on the return trip ).  Seasoned crews and advanced communications were key factors in the successful rescues.   

Reading and talking about these incidents was sobering.  I now realize how much can be done to prepare both the crew and the boat for safe passages.  I also realize that even with training requirements and boat inspections required by the race authorities some boats were better prepared than others.  

Weather and vessel failures provided lots of opportunity for dialog about bluewater preparation and safety.  I learned a ton by talking to more experienced sailors.   Some key takeaways for me personally :

1. Redundancy for communications equipment is important.  Many folks that I spoke to had intermittent satellite communications failures and used backup systems.  If needed reliable communications can be priceless.
2. Medical training.  On our return trip a member of crew suffered from severe hypothermia even though temps were in the 70's F.  You never know when medical knowledge will be needed.
3. Boat preparation.  Particularly for boats that have been used successfully as coastal cruisers for a long time.  Bluewater presents different structural challenges for a boat, some of the coastal boats were overconfident about their bluewater capabilities.  The most common failure that I heard about on the trip was engine failure due to fuel fouling.  Rough seas stirred up heavy sediment in fuel tanks.  The 2nd most common failure was lower rudder bearing failure, which in one case led to hull breach and eventual sinking.  
4. With my level of risk tolerance,   I believe it would be more cost effective ( for me ) to start with a boat that was designed for bluewater sailing than to modify my NonSuch to improve it's bluewater sailing potential.  Again this is just my perspective I know lots of folks see this differently.  The boat I helped deliver is a J121.... it's design and safety features prioritize bluewater sailing/racing above many of the features that I love about my NonSuch.  Again I know others see this differently and I respect their judgement.  At the end of the day, we each choose our course, mine will be coastal cruising with Soave.

Best wishes for Karibu, and her crew... may you find wonder and joy in your travels.

Cheers,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Well said, Rob.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Phil Orsay]

[Phil Orsay]

Dear Rob,

My modest experience of 40 years of navigation has taught me that the sea must be respected.. My modest experience of 40 years of navigation has taught me that the sea must be respected. I have been sailing for 2 months now in the Mediterranean Sea in solo , crossing between the French Riviera and the south of Corsica,, by experiencing 2 small Mediterranean storms. My goal is to test the boat, try to understand how it works, see the technical malfunctions. I still have 2 months of testing left before starting work for refit.

The first works will be: 

• replacement of the engine (currently a Mercedes HDI) with a 30 hp atmospheric Mitsubishi diesel
  
• completely refurbished electrical circuit with 280 Ah service battery (LiFePO4 12V) and an Optima engine battery. Shunt, MPTT solar regulator, charger, converter.... is installed in Victron with bluetooth monitoring. All light will be in led. Fridge insulation will be improved as indicated in the INA review. In short, electricity consumption will be optimized to provide an electricity production that will balance
  
• all the plumbing will be redone with 2 high flow bilge pumps, a water circuit pump with electronic variator (no expansion tank), all the tanks are changed by polyethylene tanks according to the plans provided by the 'INA. The gas oil tank will be the large capacity model.
  
• installation of a rear platform with a shower
  
• removal of the gantry with solar panel for installation new solar panel on the deck. I want to limit the weights at the tops
  
• new sail
• mast review with big issue regarding bronze slide . Today I don't now where I can buy it
  
• new hard top
• .....

Regards

Philippe Dupront

KARIBU NS30U # 384

Cap d’Agde / France

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Hi Philippe,

Our boat's full name is Soave sia il vento which is from Mozart’s “Così fan tutte”.  

We wish it's sentiments for you and all sailors... it's truly beautiful in italian... english translation is....

May the wind be gentle,

and the waves be calm,
and may every element
benignly answer
to our wishes.

Happy travels,

Rob 

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[Bruce Clark]

Before commenting, I will mention that I have sailed more than 40,000 nm offshore, mainly during a circumnavigation with my wife on our Bristol 45.5. I have also done three New York City- Bermuda returns including getting caught by the first tropical storm of the year. 

There are two different questions here. One is how to prep any boat for passage making; the other is suitability of a Nonsuch for passage making. I will leave the first since it is easy to find discussion of that topic, so on to the second. 

First off I would say that a Nonsucj is far from an ideal passage maker, more on that later. A second comment is that there is blue water and then there. Is blue water. We sailed from Bali to South Africa and had weeks of broad reaching in 25 to 35 knots with higher winds near the end. Would I want to do it in a Nonsuch? Not a chance. NYC-Bermuda or the trade wind passage across the Atlantic to the Caribbean. With proper prep and to get somewhere, OK. 

Things that are problematic on a Nonsuch. 

- You need to be able to dramatically reduce sail area, a deep third reef at least. 

- You can’t really rig a useful preventer when you are far off the wind which you will be east/west across the Atlantic. 

- You can’t heave-to which is useful at times. You can lie-ahull but this is not nearly as comfortable. 

- The cockpit is very large in relationship to the capacity of the deck drains. Useful to take up some volume with the life raft or jerrycans, well secured of course. You also need a secure means of closing off the cabin. 

- self steering is critical. You either need a good vane or redundant electrical ones. For either you need to be able to precisely balance the rig and this is obviously easier with two sails. 

-A Nonsuch has fewer things to break, but when something does break it tends to be serious. 

Happy to answer questions here or at the Rendevous in Toronto. 

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

A quote I'm fond of repeating: "A skillful seaman avoids situations that would require skillful seamanship."

On the one hand, the Nonsuch designers have provided information about recommended modifications before taking one offshore, as I indicated in a previous post.

On the other hand, in line with Bruce's observation that, "A Nonsuch has fewer things to break, but when something does break it tends to be serious,"  that it is exactly this lack of redundancy that's one of the key reasons cited by the designer, Mark Ellis, for stating on the record that he personally would not take a Nonsuch offshore.

Individual owners should assess their own specific capabilities, resources, and boats very carefully in deciding what situations to venture into.  

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[John Barbour - Nature 26U Toronto]

I have a book "Dangerous Waters" by David Philpott,  in which he  relates how in 1980, he attempted a  sail around the world in his Nonsuch 30, hull number 8. The voyage, including a snapped mast, ended near Tristan da Cunha, when both his halyards jammed at the top of the mast. He was saved by a passing freighter and the boat was abandoned. Five months later it was discovered by another freighter. and carried to Japan. Surprisingly, it was shipped to Owen Sound. Ontario, where it was repaired. In 1985, at the time the book was written, the boat was on Puget Sound under the name of Pole Cat   This name is in the registry but but is a 260. Hull number 8 is not in the registry...

John Barbour

Nonsuch 26U Nature

Toronto

.

[Ned Chester]

I read that book as well.  My meory is not what it used to be, but I think I remember the main parts. It is worth noting that the author/sailor was a real estate attorney who wanted an adventure but lacked any significant sailing experience.  (I am an attorney, and I can confirm that attorneys, as a group, are good examples of the fact that cognitive capacity does not necessarily correlate with common sense.) He took off from Canada in the fall, despite being warned that it was not a good time to be sailing south in the Atlantic.  He lost his mast and his sail and was able to limp into a Carribean port where he demanded that Mark Ellis send him a new mast.  It took a while to get the mast and then another long while to get it installed.  He wasn't ready to go until the fall of that next year.  He was warned that he was headed into hurricane season, but set off anyway.  This time he hit a storm that tore up his sails and flooded his cabin so that he didn't have any power or heat.  He was preparing for the worst when a freighter, by some miracle, came by and offered to take him to safety. He was quite put out when the captain refused to be responsible for the boat and gave him a choice to either get on board or stay on his boat.  The attorney boarded the freighter.  

When we bought Pipe Dream back in 2013, my spouse found this book and read it.  She's a pretty timid sailor, but I continue to remind her that we are on the perfect boat because it can sail itself halfway around the world - incluoding aorund Cape Horn - without any human assistance.  She is, wisely, not reassured.  

Ned Chester

Pipe Dream, NSC #234

Portland, Maine

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Another pet saying of mine, although not originally my words, "A boat will scare you to death long before it kills you."

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Bruce Clark]

I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread that there are varying degrees of bluewater passage making. Being anywhere in the vicinity of Tristan da Cunha would suggest he intended to go to Cape Town and then into the southern Indian Ocean toward Australia. No other destination would make any sense. This is a route only for the most stout designs and highly experienced (and tough) captains. If he wanted a more reasonable bluewater experience doing what is called the ‘Coconut Milk Run’ would make much more sense. You go through the Panama Canal and use the SE Trades to take you to Australia via French Polynesia and then across the Indian to the Red Sea and Med. This is the route used by probably 90% of circumnavigators. When we did it the Red Sea route was not feasible because of pirate activity, so we went via South Africa. This is a significantly more challenging route, and as I said earlier, would never consider in a Nonsuch.

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