New sail cover—what details are important?

[Robin Bigio]

Hi all,

I am commissioning a new sail cover for my 30U, and I would love to any intel, wisdom or details that folks here have uncovered to pass on to my canvas person.

The main questions I am going back and forth on is wether to include cradle lines openings. Should I include openings for them along the cover, so that the fabric can drape nicely below the sail?

I'd love to see what other details are important to include in the design (e.g. do i need special openings for the reefling lines?).

If you have pics to share of your sail covers plese send them over!

Thank you

Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA

[Bob Gehrman]

My suggestion, having had my sail cover remade 2 years ago with no input at all to the maker:

1) Have reinforcing placed at each cradle line. Ideally, only at the bottom, where it matters. Otherwise you have a striped sail cover.

2) have clasps to tie the sail cover in between the cradle lines. That way they don’t interfere with trying to tie down the sail.

3) put another snapped, short strap at each cradle line to keep the cradle line from slipping away from the reinforcing. This prevents chafing the cover. 

4) Make sure the new cover goes all the way to the end of the sail. About 3” extra is OK. A line at the end helps to wrap up the sail and cover it well.

5) Mine has a Zipper and clasps at the mast. Mast tie line at the top to tie it tight. Nice feature.

Can’t think of anything else at the moment. 

Good luck!

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 “Quickbeam”

Baltimore, Maryland

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/57476af9-cdaa-4bdd-b56c-e9066b6e5339n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Robin -

Your first thought is to decide if you want a zipper-top (Stack Pac, Mack Pac, whatever Pac, homemade Pac) type of cover. In 10 years of owning my little NS 22, I damn near broke my back and spent lots of extra time sweating and bear-hugging (and schlepping) my traditional open-at-the-bottom sail cover over my sail (18' long) at the end of every sail. 

UGH, seriously. A true drag, man. Especially on a nice hot day. Until I went "zipper top".

A zipper-top zips open and ...... that's all, folks !! It sits there, not in the way. Off you go, in minutes. No storing and schlepping (love that word - Italian, isn't it ????). Finished sailing ?? Now comes the real fun - the sail drops ...... wham ... right into the cover. Zip it up. THAT'S IT. Go have a beer or a prosecco. Otherwise, 25 minutes of sweating and (wait for it) schlepping (and, likely, some swearing). And, your sail cover is way longer than 18' and way heavier. 

Sincerely, seriously, if it takes a second mortgage on your home, it's worth it. Long-time Nonsuchers and veteran sailors say that it is the singular best improvement that they have made to their vessels. I know that the Stack Pac (Doyle Sails) or the Mack Pac (Mack Sails) are very popular. Both of these esteemed companies have developed highly successful designs specifically for our boats, taking cradles lines, etc. into considerations. They don't need to reinvent the same wheel that they invented, eons ago. To be fair, other good canvas shops have built many of these for Nonsuches.

All of that said, Paul Miller adapted a standard sail cover on his NS 30 by, essentially, coercing his good wife to sew zppers along the top of it. I believe it's a big success. Butch Garren and several other Nonsuch sailors around Solomons, MD., got together and worked up a home-grown design with a good local canvas shop that, I believe,  worked out really well. And, I took Paul's idea and had a few zippers run along the top of my uncooperative cover and never regretted it. 

A cover like this takes recreational sailing to a whole new level of pleasure, honestly, when you don't have to dread "packing up".

Think about it.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Robin Bigio]

Thanks Ernie! I actually have a Doyle stack pack on that came with the boat. I had to remove it recently while I was doing my mast repairs, and I have to say it's quite lovely not having this giant burgundy object floating around my deck while under sail. 

I am sure I will go back to the stack pack eventually, but for now, while my back is strong, I am excited to go with a traditional sailcover.

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/UWZfcv4scMk/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/78c7cb82-c021-4ab9-ac9e-9027acc9987bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

OK - I gotcha !!

Ernie A. in Toronto (with a back that is not so strong)

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/78c7cb82-c021-4ab9-ac9e-9027acc9987bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Actually, Robin, sort of on this subject .....

Yes, go with all of Bob Gehrman's ideas. Clearly, he knows. But, if your cradle lines are just made of rope, substitute a few feet of 1" webbing at the bottom of each loop (such that your sail rests on webbing, not on cord). Your sail will love you for it. This will give you lots of latitude for adjusting the lengths of each cradle line. And, if the webbing pieces are long enough (but not too long), they will be the things that come in contact with the sail cover, not cord (that will act as a convenient jeweller's saw, both on your sail and on the cover).

I've attached a photo.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

OK I will be the odd man out here.  Many of my Nonsuch buddies have some version of a 'stack pack".  And properly designed they work as advertised.

However I do not have one.  Taking the traditional one on and off is a bit of work. 

But:

1. I need the exercise. An elaborate form of boat yoga actually.  I do cheat by moving the sail off to one side so I can do it all from the deck vs cabin top.

2.  Sorry guys and gals they look odd when sailing.

3. And most importantly I need all the extra sail area the stack pack would block in order to keep up with Mark and Nesta Powers and their tape drive monster sail. 

[Paul Miller]

Beauty Thor, is in the eye of the beholder. 

Extra work removing, stowing, retrieving, and re-installing 25’ of Sunbrella very time you want to sail on the other hand can (with age) become a deterrent to going out for that quick sail on the spur of the moment. 

I find that the easier I make it the more I sail.
….. and I’m sure Mark knows we all let him win… 😁

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Hear, hear, Paul Miller. I'm with you (and I only have 18' of sail cover to deal with ... and a crappy lower back). We all have our very own boat yoga, though.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mike BIANKA]

I bought a Sailrite sewing machine a a few years ago. Primarily to make one of their Sailpack sail cover designs to replace the original standard sailcover that came with my NS 30U when I bought it in 1995. I followed the Sailrite plans and video. Except that I omitted the zipper and used snaps and quick release buckles with straps which IMO are less prone to failure than a full length zipper. Here is the Sailrite video on how to make the cover:  https://youtu.be/JMB-r4mtK1Q

Mike
BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[newelljc9]

When I bought Mascouche, she had a standard sail cover which I replaced with a stack pack in 2014. I estimate it gave me an extra hour for sailing however it was a compromise. First, it created a lot of windage which could be a problem where the moorings are not sheltered. Second, The position of the tack of a Nonsuch is close to the deck almost eliminating lines of sight forward. A stack pack makes a bad situation worse which is one of the reasons I changed the rig for sailing in old age. Now I have a tidy stack pack that sits on top of the 15' boom 4' above the deck giving clear lines of sight in all directions. It makes for far more relaxed sailing in congested harbours, especially when they are populated by foiling Wasps.

 John Newell

Mascouche 26C #1

Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Thor failed to mention that Debbie does 90+ % of the work in removing and putting the sail cover back on. I thought My brother Rob was the only one that let me win.

Mark Powers

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

My $0.02 on the top-zipping sail cover is that I've timed myself, and can go from standing at the gangway gate to backing out of the slip in under ten minutes because of the sail cover and related things I've done to make departure efficient while still safe.  If I didn't hose down the boat after each trip, returning would be about the same.

Anything that increases time on the water and reduces time on chores has my vote.

-- Bob

   Me Gusta

   Nonsuch 26U #233

[Robin Bigio]

Bob, is your sail cover permanently attached to the cradle lines like a stack pack?

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

….. and I’m sure Mark knows we all let him win…

Paul M

NS30U #211, Sandpiper 

Cowichan Bay, B.C.

On Saturday, 7 January 2023 at 13:15:43 UTC-8 Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC) wrote:

OK I will be the odd man out here.  Many of my Nonsuch buddies have some version of a 'stack pack".  And properly designed they work as advertised.

However I do not have one.  Taking the traditional one on and off is a bit of work. 

But:

1. I need the exercise. An elaborate form of boat yoga actually.  I do cheat by moving the sail off to one side so I can do it all from the deck vs cabin top.

2.  Sorry guys and gals they look odd when sailing.

3. And most importantly I need all the extra sail area the stack pack would block in order to keep up with Mark and Nesta Powers and their tape drive monster sail. 

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 6:58:04 AM UTC-8 Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto wrote:

Actually, Robin, sort of on this subject .....

Yes, go with all of Bob Gehrman's ideas. Clearly, he knows. But, if your cradle lines are just made of rope, substitute a few feet of 1" webbing at the bottom of each loop (such that your sail rests on webbing, not on cord). Your sail will love you for it. This will give you lots of latitude for adjusting the lengths of each cradle line. And, if the webbing pieces are long enough (but not too long), they will be the things that come in contact with the sail cover, not cord (that will act as a convenient jeweller's saw, both on your sail and on the cover).

I've attached a photo.

Ernie A. in Toronto

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 9:47:19 AM UTC-5 Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto wrote:

OK - I gotcha !!

Ernie A. in Toronto (with a back that is not so strong)

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 8:38:56 PM UTC-5 robin...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Ernie! I actually have a Doyle stack pack on that came with the boat. I had to remove it recently while I was doing my mast repairs, and I have to say it's quite lovely not having this giant burgundy object floating around my deck while under sail. 

I am sure I will go back to the stack pack eventually, but for now, while my back is strong, I am excited to go with a traditional sailcover.

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/c02e33e9-813e-42e1-8af0-4ba9ce4e17a2n%40googlegroups.com.

[Robin Bigio]

Do folks have any advice about adding openings for the cradle lines, like a more traditional lazy-jack set up. Attaching a pic of what the canvas person is suggesting…

I haven't seen anything like it on a nonsuch before. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to strap in the lines each time.

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 10:06 AM, Robin Bigio <robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob, is your sail cover permanently attached to the cradle lines like a stack pack?

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin.bigio@gmail.com

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

90% of the supervision Mark :) 

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 6:14:57 PM UTC-8 Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C. wrote:

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Robin - Your guy is correct. "Slits" are what is needed and what you show in the photo looks very slick. I've attached a photo that kinda shows the slits (4 cradle lines) on my cover. You can see this best if you check out the cradle line that is the furthest forward. As I mentioned, I "re-made" the cover into a zip-top and removed all of the canvas that wraps around the mast. Prior to this, I had 4 x 8" slits put into the bottom of the cover as fighting with the sodden thing to get it around the cradle lines was hellish. And, as you can see, the cradle lines are not attached to the cover AND the cover is not attached to the sail.

As Paul mentioned, beauty is in the mind of the beholder. My "schmattah-like" cover dangling below my sail doesn't look that sharp AND I might lose .0002 knots of speed but, boy o boy, it makes life easy and gets you out there and gets you to the bar/home/ the store, etc. in record time. When you have a 6 month sailing season (and you have passed the age of 40 .... ), time becomes a consideration.

The slits on my cover don't have a closure on the bottom. I cannot see any need for them. But, go for the slits.

Ernie A. in Toronto

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 1:11:52 PM UTC-5 robin...@gmail.com wrote:

Do folks have any advice about adding openings for the cradle lines, like a more traditional lazy-jack set up. Attaching a pic of what the canvas person is suggesting…

I haven't seen anything like it on a nonsuch before. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to strap in the lines each time.

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 10:06 AM, Robin Bigio <robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob, is your sail cover permanently attached to the cradle lines like a stack pack?

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/c02e33e9-813e-42e1-8af0-4ba9ce4e17a2n%40googlegroups.com.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Sorry, Robin -

I missed the velcro in your photos. That might be a good idea as long as there is a nice gap for the webbing/cord to pass through as it supports the sail.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

I do not have a stack pack. My sail cover is completely independent of (from?) the lazy jacks.  It does not have slits in it. It has one long zipper and one short zipper. I lift the sail and pull the cover down around it before I do up the zippers. Any where daylight can reach the sail allows for UV damage. 

Mark Powers

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Robin,

You asked for a picture.  These two are from my previous boat.  The first shows how it looks under sail.  The second how it looks zipped up at the dock.

They're too big to post here, but you can see them at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q1W5lSHzAMrIQ1ec53RpM65mvSAtlheV/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ea24zILGF6ryOR20UoU9OB6oiKDZJ7yg/view?usp=sharing

.

The tradeoffs in designs depend on how much performance you care about.  I'm sure that a stackpack that lays flat on the sail improves performance over this.

My friend Phil has a Nonsuch 36 with an identically-designed cover.  I've sailed on both my N26 and his N36 before and after converting to this cover design, and can't say that I've noticed a performance impact on either.

This is speaking as a pleasure sailor and cruiser, though.  A performance-oriented racer would not be caught dead with one of these, I suspect.

This specific design was developed by a group of Nonsuchers in the Chesapeake.  The canvasmaker who specialized in them has since retired.  I have enough information from him that I think I could steer you through getting one done elsewhere, though.  If interested, get in touch with me off-line.

[Bob Gehrman]

Robin -

I don't think you want any openings in the sail cover. My sail cover covers the whole sail, all the way around. Holes would let water into the sail. See attached pics. Lining up the reinforcing with the cradle lines is important. Can't see it in these pics, but there is a small strap with a snap at each cradle line on the sail cover to keep the line from slipping off the reinforcing. That was added later.

The only thing that takes time in using a non-stack pack is the time it takes to flake the sail. That should be done anyways, but I bet most people that use a stack pack do not flake their sail, I'm guessing.

Bob Gehrman

NS30U #396 "Quickbeam"

Baltimore, Maryland

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 1:11 PM Robin Bigio <robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do folks have any advice about adding openings for the cradle lines, like a more traditional lazy-jack set up. Attaching a pic of what the canvas person is suggesting…

I haven't seen anything like it on a nonsuch before. Plus, it seems like a lot of work to strap in the lines each time.

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

On Mon, Jan 09, 2023 at 10:06 AM, Robin Bigio <robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob, is your sail cover permanently attached to the cradle lines like a stack pack?

Robin B

ZOE, 30U #307

SF Bay, CA

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/c02e33e9-813e-42e1-8af0-4ba9ce4e17a2n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/lcp4c4fw.ef88b23a-6ae7-4f59-9d92-f3dfcb59af3d%40we.are.superhuman.com.

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Thor,  so you are saying that you require a significant amount of supervision when you put the sail cover on.

Mark Powers

[William Evans]

I thread a piece of tubing on my cradle lines. The sail cover does not rest on bare line.

Bill Evans Companionship 30U 465 G

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CACfZVSNh75DLbUu88mHE_trCHJ5PUEErjuy0pb8Sr-K5%2Bnyr6w%40mail.gmail.com.

--

William Evans
“Companionship “ 30U #465
West River MD.

[Phil Harmeson]

Just looked at Bob's Quickbeam pics. About 6 years ago I commissioned a new cover that resembles his. With a few tweaks. My cover extends around the mast and has a zipper on the forward side. There is a collar that wraps around the mast and is tied off on the forward side. The rest of the cover is modified as follows: 1) There is are four zippers on top. Makes it easy to get at one area of the sail without unzipping the whole thing. If the zipper needs repair, which it hasn't, only one part needs attention. 2) Each cradle line is fitted with a free hanging stainless boat snap. 3) A heavy web strap is sewn beneath each cradle line, extends a few inches above the zipper, and is fitted with a "D" ring. 4) Each ring is snapped to it's "D" ring, suspending the sail cover. At the end of season the cover is dropped, unzipped, and roughly rolled to be carried ashore for final folding. Whoops, forgot to mention there is a strip of webbing that runs beneath the cover to allow drainage.

Phil Harmeson

Catharsis. 30U #295

Traverse City, MI

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

When I first decided to guard the sail (or the sail cover) from being chafed by bare cord, I ran 2' pieces of plastic tubing on the cords and everything rested on the tubing. But, in time, the tubing went all curly and beige and cruddy from the sun. So, I cut the lines and had a sailmaker do up 4 pieces of 1" webbing between 2' and 3' long with a grommet at each end and tied them in. Each cradle line is infinitely adjustable and the webbing has been fine for years.

Robin - As is natural, there are always several schools of thought with regard to each topic that we discuss. Some of us favour flaking the sail and covering it with a conventional cover that is only open at the bottom. This will keep the sail dry and really do the job but you must lift the flaked sail to push and shove the cover "under it" but OVER each cradle line. Sincerely, I think that you will tire of this activity after the novelty wears off. It genuinely takes time (and sweat) but the boat looks great sailing around with no cover attached. A compromise would be to have those velcroed slits that your canvas person suggests - the cradle line (or webbing) ends up at the "top" of the slit, the rest seals up nicely and you don't have to fight the cover under each cradle line. Practically the entire sail is covered up. Or, you go with a good traditional "somebody's Pack zipper top". They are well-thought-out and they do keep the sail covered. They do cost more money, obviously. Usually, they have some sort of system that shields the top zippers from the rain and, hopefully, the sail hardly gets wet.

My sail cover, as I said, is a true homemade bitch-up job done from an old cover. My sail does get wet after a good rain so I make sure that I go out sailing and get it dried off. 

Good "somebody's Pack zipper top" covers, professionally made, don't look that bad and certainly add to the pleasure of a day out on the water. Great on a hot day, too !!

Ernie A. in Toronto

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:23:54 AM UTC-5 weeshop...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

And furthermore ......

I think that the design for Bob and Phil's sail cover came from the "Butch Garren Gang of Four", around Solomon's, MD. A lot was written here about how really good the design was and how successful these covers turned out to be. I do like the design, going by Bob's photos.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

Mark I was born at young age, so supervision is always needed. 

[JP Cotter]

Robin & Ernie,

Great discussion, we finally had a 2nd nonesuch at FYC this summer in Grosse I’ve michigan and I was immediately jealous of the top zip arrangement.  But my motor has more horsepower so it balances out.  However, the tie up “schlepping”(I think that fine word is Yiddish not Italian ..) ritual is always done happily by my wife as we drive up the Marina canal.

When replaced ours over covid, we asked for an extra 2 ft length and about 1 ft depth over the original and a bigger gap for the reefing line tie offs.  

Jonathan.  

West Lake Erie

Jolee NS26’ classic

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/78c7cb82-c021-4ab9-ac9e-9027acc9987bn%40googlegroups.com.

--

Jonathan Cotter

Jolee, Detroit River, FYC Gross Ile Michigan

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

I NEVER said it was Italian, Jonathan !!!

Ciao,

Ernie A. in Toronto (home of Little Italy)

[Ray Dykstra]

Robin 

  Are you looking at a traditional sail cover or a stack pack arrangement?

Ray Dykstra

Timaru Nui

Nonsuch 324

Brentwood Bay, BC

[Robin Bigio]

Hey Ray, I am looking for a traditional sail cover. Thank you!

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:43 AM, Ray Dykstra <rpjdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Robin 

  Are you looking at a traditional sail cover or a stack pack arrangement?

Ray Dykstra

Timaru Nui

Nonsuch 324

Brentwood Bay, BC

On Jan 6, 2023, at 3:20 PM, Robin Bigio <robin.bigio@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I am commissioning a new sail cover for my 30U, and I would love to any intel, wisdom or details that folks here have uncovered to pass on to my canvas person.

The main questions I am going back and forth on is wether to include cradle lines openings. Should I include openings for them along the cover, so that the fabric can drape nicely below the sail?

I'd love to see what other details are important to include in the design (e.g. do i need special openings for the reefling lines?).

If you have pics to share of your sail covers plese send them over!

Thank you

Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/57476af9-cdaa-4bdd-b56c-e9066b6e5339n%40googlegroups.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/UWZfcv4scMk/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/6FAFE63F-088A-434D-A26C-897DFDCCAC94%40gmail.com.

[Thor (26C Brentwood Bay BC)]

So the things to look for in a traditional sail cover IMHO are

Clips vs toggles underneath.  We have black plastic  clips like you see on a back pack. They work.  I have a seen the toggle like steel clips often used on dodges and I think they are easier to attach than our black clips

If you have an older sail make sure it is a good bit bigger.  To fit a new sail in ours required a number of extensions to the clips under the cover  ranging from 8 inches to 3 inches. As the sail ages and softens this becomes less of an issue. So  make  the cover 8 inches wide at the mast tapering to 3 at the end if you sail is 5 years and older.  Also measure the length needed and add 4 inches. 

The mast should be a zipper or  velcro .

My expert tells me that making one out of "Sumbrella" is well with the ability of some one who can run a sewing machine and would use the Bernia vs the walking foot machine.  Ours is two pieces joined at the top. 

Make sure whoever makes it uses GORE® TENARA® Sewing Thread which is totally UV resistant.

We  put the cover on  by tossing out along the sail pack. Points are awarded  for style and distance by the Admiral. I then push the boom off to the leeward side so I can get it all in from the  deck vs the cabin top. 

We then have a drink in the cockpit to celebrate the event and wait for Mark to arrive.  Now sometimes he's there already but only if he let's Nesta drive. 

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

The original sail cover on La Reina had the black buckles that Thor describes. The new cover has two zippers. 

The buckles are easier to use but over time they became brittle and started breaking.  I hand sewed on new ones and added some extras to keep the sail inside the cover.  As Thor says new sails do not stack as small. I ended up adding about 4 inches of material to each side of the cover to make sure the sail did not see the sun. Both of the covers would have worked better with an extra 4" of length.

The zippers do a nice jog of keeping the sail out of the sun. If rain works its way into the cover the zippers also prevent it from draining out of the bottom. They are harder to use. I find I have to lay on the deck at the mast to start the main zipper and then I have to fiddle around for a while to line up the zipper at the reef lines near the back of the sail to get that one started.    Thor is usually on the second  G&T by the time I have the cover on.

The next cover will have the buckles. I think the buckles will be easier for a DIY to replace than the metal toggles. 

Mark Powers

[Jim Cosgrove]

I know I’m swimming against the tide here, but after 6 or 7 years with 2 different top zip sail covers, I’ll be returning to a traditional cover this season. 

Although my first top zip sail cover was professionally made, I was never really happy with how it was attached to the mast when the sail was raised. Also, it was about 4” too short. The second cover, made by Butch Miller, was a superior design but it’s too tight. It takes 2 people to close the zipper—one person to muscle the two sides close to each other and one to work the zipper. 

Now, I could have the second top zip cover enlarged, but it wouldn’t fix my other complaint with stack pack like covers—that is, reduced visibility forward. Also these covers can potentially interfere with the blocks on the mast. 

So I’ll dig out my old traditional cover and give it another try this season. We will see how it goes. I do love the look of a Nonsuch with just a sail flying. But if it’s too much work I reserve the right to change my mind again in 2024. 

Jim Cosgrove 

FATE 30U #343

Galesville, MD

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/b2e8ac6d-eada-489d-81dd-786a020233a4n%40googlegroups.com

.

[(null) (null)]

Robin,

Definitely get cradle lines openings if you go with a regular sail cover. When I got my new cover around 3 years ago I was quoted 70 to 90 bucks for each opening so I left them off. Mistake. I’m 65, and in the summer the sun beats down on my slip as I do the schlepp thing. I ended up modifying my cradle lines with sections of webbing and clips, which makes it a bit easier and increases the surface contact around the bottom. On my 22  I remove the leach reef lines, back to the wishbone after each outing, which is a lot easier than having them in the sail cover game, and it would eliminate two openings.

Dave King

N22 “Suey”

Alameda

.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CAG9hrFBGMLx-xEnX8wzJ17tQ9e-Pv1toobRB4wQyV7eTDK3JPQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bill Prange]

Cover Craft in Richmond has made several NS sail covers, and is a good resource in the north bay, Robin,,

Bill Prange

Previous NS owner

Starting to shop for a NS30

On Wednesday, January 11, 2023 at 8:46:02 AM UTC-8 robin...@gmail.com wrote:

Hey Ray, I am looking for a traditional sail cover. Thank you!

Robin Bigio
robin...@gmail.com

On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 8:43 AM, Ray Dykstra <rpjdy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Robin 

  Are you looking at a traditional sail cover or a stack pack arrangement?

Ray Dykstra

Timaru Nui

Nonsuch 324

Brentwood Bay, BC

On Jan 6, 2023, at 3:20 PM, Robin Bigio <robin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I am commissioning a new sail cover for my 30U, and I would love to any intel, wisdom or details that folks here have uncovered to pass on to my canvas person.

The main questions I am going back and forth on is wether to include cradle lines openings. Should I include openings for them along the cover, so that the fabric can drape nicely below the sail?

I'd love to see what other details are important to include in the design (e.g. do i need special openings for the reefling lines?).

If you have pics to share of your sail covers plese send them over!

Thank you

Robin B
ZOE, 30U #307
SF Bay, CA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/57476af9-cdaa-4bdd-b56c-e9066b6e5339n%40googlegroups.com.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "INA Nonsuch Discussion Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/UWZfcv4scMk/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to INA-Nonsuch-Discussi...@googlegroups.com.

[Gary Drake]

Hi Jim,

So how did your sail cover work out this season for you?  I am currently weighing the pros and cons of the stack pack vs the traditional cover.   I love the convenience of the stack pack, but worry about the visibility aspect. Is it not possible to shorten the lines to keep the pack higher off the deck?

Gary Drake

NS 33 #68

Gussy 

Branford Ct 

[(null) (null)]

Robin,

Yes, Definitely get the cradle lines openings!

I was quoted about 70.00 each when I had my cover made so I cheaped out and did not get them. What a mistake.

Dave King.

N22 Suey

Alameda, CA

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/c01eb66f-a93d-4676-bd14-fab31f0622f5n%40googlegroups.com.