SAIL COVER

[esan...@gmail.com]

This topic has been covered in other threads, but I'm hoping to get some updates.  I recently traded my NS 22 in on a NS 26.  The 26 has a sail cover that has to be completely removed every time I want to go sailing.  I find that too labour intensive.  I'd like to get a "stack pack" style cover for the sail, so that it becomes part of the lazy jack system, zips open at the top so the sail can be raised, and stays in place while sailing.  In some of the older threads on this topic there are mentions of a "membrane" that attached the foot of the sail to the sail cover.  I don't think I want that, and would prefer the foot of the sail to be loose.  I don't quite understand the "membrane" attaching the foot of the sail to the cover and wonder if anyone can explain, especially if there are advantages.  The best price I've found for a sail cover for a NS 26 that stays in place that you drop the sail into is MackPack made in Florida for $1,000 US plus GST.  That includes shipping.  It's not ideal to have it made in Florida when I'm on Vancouver Island in BC, but they have made them before and have all the measurements, etc.  Does anyone here have experience having a MackPack sail cover made and shipped to Canada?  How do you like it?  What advice do you have for me about a practical, cost-effective solution to the sail cover issue?   Thanks.

Elsie Sands

NS 26 Seven Stars

Maple Bay, BC Canada

[newelljc9]

Elsie, I got a stack pack sail cover made in Canada for my 26. I recon it saved the best part of an hour sailing time taking into considering the time to prepare the sail for sailing and stowing it afterwards, The design should include mesh on the bottom for drainage and ventilation with battens on the sides to keep it trim and tidy. One thing I found was that it did further restrict the lines of sight forward. The sailmaker that made the stack pack in 2014 is no longer in business and I sold it to another 26 when I converted Mascouche to a standing gaff rig. 

My new stack pack was made by Daniela Dineva in Toronto. Since then she has made me a new dodger (completed yesterday). The only problem is that she is in great demand in the Toronto area. Perhaps you can find a local sailmaker to work with?

Photo attached 

John Newell,

Mascouche 26C1

Toronto

[ken...@gmail.com]

You could also check out Sailrite, Elsie. 

They make kits and I’m pretty sure they have done NS 26’s.  They do require someone relatively experienced in sewing to put them together but they provide excellent instructions and support.  Probably best to double the time estimate they provide. 

Ken Julian

Blue Note NS26C#9

Fredericton, NB

On May 25, 2024, at 2:32 PM, newelljc9 <newe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Elsie, I got a stack pack sail cover made in Canada for my 26. I recon it saved the best part of an hour sailing time taking into considering the time to prepare the sail for sailing and stowing it afterwards, The design should include mesh on the bottom for drainage and ventilation with battens on the sides to keep it trim and tidy. One thing I found was that it did further restrict the lines of sight forward. The sailmaker that made the stack pack in 2014 is no longer in business and I sold it to another 26 when I converted Mascouche to a standing gaff rig. 

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Elsie -

I am a big fan of Travis Blaine of Mack Sails in Stuart, Florida. He made me a new sail for my NS 22 7 years ago for, sincerely, an unbeatable price. Mack has been making Mack Packs for years, for all kinds of boats. Granted, they aren't "local" to you but they are also not in Cambodia. I wouldn't be surprised if they have made more Mack Packs for Nonsuches than a lot of other canvas shops or lofts. The service from Mack was unbeatable both by email and on the phone. They make superb sails using the best materials, by the way.

Here is a thought - what kind of condition is your present sail cover ?? If it's quite solid, think of (no kidding), think of "renovating it to do the job. This a very doable job. Speak to Paul Miller whose wife re-did his sail cover. I had the same situation as you and had a canvas shop do a chop job on my cover that worked quite well until the actual canvas gave up the ghost. Using that old "renovated" cover, I had a good local Toronto shop (Vladimir at Marine Sewing) make me a new one that works beautifully.

Give Paul a shout.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Peter Grabow]

Hi Elsie,

A StackPack (from Doyle) is one of the best 5 upgrades I have made to my 30U.

I have only read/heard good things about Mack, and $1000, in my opinion is a very good price. My StackPack ran about $100/ft.

The membrane, if it is the same as on my StackPack is sailcloth that attaches the pack to the lower end of the sail and when the

sail is raised, it pulls the pack up flush to the sail preventing the pack from creating excess windage and giving a nice clean appearance.

When the halyard is lossened the pack opnes as the membrane is no longer taut and the sail drops right  into the pack.

The foot on my sail/pack is loose. It has nothing to do with the membra n e, at least not on a StackPack.

Mesh drains on the bottom are useful. Mine doeant have mesh drains but it does have several openings and I have rarely had water collect in the sail/pack.

Peter Grabow

S/V CAKE WALK III 

1987 30U

Jersey City NJ

On Saturday, May 25, 2024 at 11:05:46 AM UTC-4 esan...@gmail.com wrote:

[Don Crossley]

Elsie, mine was made by Leitch & McBride, in Sidney, came with the boat. I believe its same design as Doyle.

Don

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[Rob Powers]

Hi Elsie,

The one we have was made in Sidney but the maker is now semi retired.

Gile on Solo meow planned to have someone in Sidney duplicate it. I said they could use ours as a pattern.

It is much simpler than a stack pad and I prefer it.

You can see it art the rendezvous at Genoa Bay in July.

Rob Powers

Respite 26C #50

Sidney BC

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

Elsie,

Folks are giving you good alternatives.  Here're two more, both of which can either be done yourself or handed off to a canvasmaker:

1. On the www.Nonsuch.org website, Ted Eedson posted his design for a top-zipping sail cover that rolls up and hangs underneath the sail at https://www.nonsuch.org/resources/Documents/Member%20projects/Sail%20cover%20for%20Nosuch%2026.pdf.  If that link doesn't work, open the MEMBERS tab, click MEMBERS TIPS & PROJECTS, and select "Nonsuch 26 Top Loading Sail Cover - Posted October 2020" about halfway down the first page.  It has very detailed instructions and pictures showing how it looks, how to measure and lay out your own, and how to cut and sew it.  Several Nonsuch 26 owners contributed to the design and have it on their boats.
   
2. Butch Garrison and several others came up with an alternative design that has also had a number of us using and liking.   Those were made by a canvas guy, Butch Allison, who has since retired.  When Allison retired, he gave me permission to share the measurement instructions and template with others.   If interested, email me at the address on this post and I'll send it to you.
   

Ted's and Butch's designs look very similar when in place at the dock, but differ in a few key aspects when getting underway and dropping the sail.  

Ted's is designed with the lazy jacks fastening fairly low on the cover, enabling you to roll it into a very thin bundle after the sail's raised, with minimal windage.  After the sail's dropped, you pull the two sides out from under the sail to close it up by fastening them together along the top of the sail.  Advantage, minimal windage.  Disadvantage, a little more work than Butch's digging out the flaps and connecting them up when putting the sail away.

Butch's design has the lazy jacks fastening to the cover very near the sides.  Essentially, the sides and bottom of the canvas serve as the rest of the lazy jacks.  A bit more windage, although less than you might think, but dropping the sail is dead easy because digging for the cover pieces is completely eliminated.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Mike BIANKA]

I made my own sail cover using the Sailrite Sail Pack design and plans. It was a very satisfying project especially since I had never used a sewing machine before. I opted to modify the design and not use a Zipper closure on top. My thought being zippers always fail at some point. I instead used a combination of snaps and webbing clips which has worked well.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Greg Silver]

Hi Elsie

Congratulations on your upsizing to a 26. It is the perfect boat for most pleasure sailors, according to George Hinterhoeller, as my father told me when Misty Cat was passed on to my stewardship 22 years ago,  You have lots of good advice on the sail cover so far, I think I can add a bit. I got a new sail, and sail cover from North Sails Nova Scotia loft around 2016.They call it ‘Quick Cover’. Similar to the Mack Florida cover and others like that, separate from the sail to minimize weight of the sail package.With compromises for ‘some’ windage compared to Stack Pack style. North provided a template to measure the flaked sail girths and lazyjacks at stations. I wanted that style of cover to keep the sail bending and unbending more manageable. I am very happy with it. So is my wife. Actually the sail cover was my first anniversary gift to her, at her request.  I have seen Mack’s version, also looks very good. A friend here with a NS 30 just got a very favourable price quote on same type of separate top-zip cover from Far East Sails, where he had a sail made, and remade in the past few years. He is impressed with their service, and their prices are very competitive. 

You have lots of options, from DIY to various suppliers, any way you do it, it makes very light work of opening and closing your sail and if you daysail, you will probably sail more

Fair winds,

Greg Silver

Misty Cat 26C #121

St Peter’s, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia

[Charles A. Mitchell, III]

love my mack pack on my 33 does exactly what you want for half the price of the doyle

Chuck Mitchell

Cape cod MA

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[nicholas burnett]

Chuck

Do you use ties to reduce the fabric that is left loose after raising the sail? And roll up the material that wraps around the mast? I’m just trying to get a sense of how all that canvas is controlled, and what sort of effort and extra lines that requires.

Photos would be great, but you may not have them. 

Nick

Sugar Blues, S. Portland, Maine

N33, 2000 Wiggers

207-272-4956

[theen...@comcast.net]

I’ve been watching this thread with interest as it brings back some previous, similar concerns and solutions.

 

I don’t think there is one sail cover better than the other.  Once the cover being used solves all the owners concern, it is a good cover no matter what the rest of us think.  Possibly this thread, with a bunch of good ideas will lead each owner to the perfect sail cover for them.  I can only respond based on my thinking and supposed knowledge.  So here goes.  I think most viewers of this thread would agree that the conventional sail cover where you throw it on top of the sail and feel for all the connection points underneath the sail is a PITA.  And I think most would agree that a zipper of sorts on top of the sail cover would be most advantageous. 

 

Maybe 7 or 8 years ago we had 5 Nonsuch 22s and one Nonsuch 26 in Solomons Island looking for new sail covers.  We reviewed hundreds or maybe thousands of pictures from previous INA rendezvous and other events found in the Nonsuch Update.  Many, many hours of looking and talking took place and here is what we concluded, including pricing concerns.  For whatever reason, right or wrong, we did not want the bulkier, larger covers seen in many boat pictures,  We did not want the sail connected to the cover.  We wanted two zippers to be flap covered and we wanted the meeting point to allow for two reefing set ups but to protect the sail from the sun.  We were not concerned about a small dribble of water but concerned about the sun.   We insisted on a few grommet holes to allow varied strapping methods to lash the clew end to the end of the wishbone.  The mast end had to be a wrap around with a vertical zipper and a material flap over with Velcro to cover the zipper.   We also wanted (D) rings on the cover for the connecting point for the Lazy jacks.  We equipped each Lazy Jack with a snap ring of sorts. Each skipper had their own preferences.  Since all of this, I had a strap built in to use as a connecting point for the halyard.  We also wanted strategically placed grommet holes to be used for drainage of water that may have gotten in the cover.

 

We wanted a practical, reasonably priced cover that was easy to install and remove.  I made ready-to-go straps, numbered, for each of the lazy jacks so that when the cover came off, they will take its place until the return of the cover.  I can install these straps one at a time as I disconnect the cover.  It probably does not take more than 5 minutes on my NS 30.  I’ve tested this twice.  Once because of zipper repair and again when I decided that I did not like the one zipper approach and had it changed to the two-zipper version.  Again, don’t throw away or sell the original cover. 

 

At the time, there was, available, a well know traditional cat boat guy who did this type of work part time.  I am not including his name because I don’t think he does this work anymore. 

 

We brought him in and had him sit down with us to discuss our ideas.  He enhanced our design with his expertise, and we ended up with a successful sail cover.  It was his idea to line portions of the inside of the cover to act as a stiffener.  Sail material was used for this purpose.  In the first picture of the NS 22 you will notice how proudly the cover stays in place.  The Velcroed flap covers the zipper.  The two finger tabs are used to move the cover around , if needed.

 

Before I forget it, if you are going to have a cover made, do not throw away the original on top cover.  You will need that if your new cover needs repairs or changes.  Remember those numbered straps I mentioned?  That’s when those will become handy.

 

I am not the brightest lightbulb in town, but I do have a bunch of pictures and opinions if I can be of any help.  My NS 22 was the first boat with this cover and I immediately had one built for my Nonsuch 30 which I still have.

 

My computer does not allow me to send a lot of pics, but I am willing to send a few a lot of times.  The pictures may come from my NS 22 or my now NS30.

 

If you want more, just holler at me.

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196  “Whiskers II”

SIYC Slip 12

Solomons, MD

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

   Not sure exactly what you're asking, but here are my best guess at answers.  (First off, I have a Doyle Stack Pack which came with the boat.  I really doubt that there is any functional difference between it and the Mack that Chuck has, so if Mack gives you a better price, go for it.)
   The fabric that is left loose after raising the sail?  Are you referring to the sides of the Stack Pack?  It is really kind of a long, narrow, heavy canvas bucket (with drain slots in the bottom.)  It has a full length batten along the upper edge - what would be the rim of the bucket - and is suspended from the boom by lines that run down to tabs along that batten.  There is a canvas top with a zipper down the middle.  On mine it tapers from a foot or so wide at the mast to just a few inches at the clew.  So when the sail is up, there is that long narrow strip of loose canvas on either side of the pack.  But it is narrow and made from stiff canvas and has a heavy zipper so it doesn't flop around or anything.  In fact, it is so well behaved that I've never given it a thought.  There is certainly nothing to control.  That's kind of the whole point of the stack pack: nearly effortless sail storage.
   There is a panel that wraps around the front of the mast.  It zips onto the front of the Stack Pack.  You unzip it and stow it below as part of preparing the sail at the dock.  It's about the last thing you put back on when you are done sailing.  It is very easy to do.  Mine is sized so that it will still work with the wishbone moved all the way aft.  The wishbone is never in that position when I am docked, so it is a bit floppier than I'd like and that's something I aim to have corrected if I can ever get the pack off of the boat for repairs.
   Effort and extra lines.  There is far less effort required to use the stack pack than anything else.  It is easier to use than in-mast furling if you factor in the need to balance tension on the in and outhauls and the inevitable bind-ups when furling.  If you can put your hands on top of your sail for its full length, that's all the effort you need: just what it takes to zip it open and shut.  Using the single zipper with a slider from each end, allows you to meet the two sliders wherever it is convenient.  You unzip the front piece, unzip the top, attach the halyard, and you are ready to raise the sail.  Reverse it at the end.  No extra lines are necessary as long as you can reach the full length of the zipper.  The stack pack hangs from the same lazy jack padeyes that are probably already on your boom.  That's really all there is too it.  You pay some extra money up front and then it's all easy.  So rare that anything works like that in boating...

--Brian M. Godfrey
  Vela, NS33 #77, San Diego
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[nicholas burnett]

Brian,

Thanks for your information and description- exactly what I was looking to learn. I'm not sure the Mack pack has the full length batten, but it operates similarly to the Doyle Stack pack.

Nick

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Elsie et al -

Open this link for the full scoop on the MackPack including prices in USD.

https://macksails.com/mack-pack/

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mark Collins]

I had a stack pack made by Sperry Sails in Marion, Ma. I was a little concerned that it would affect the sailing. Boy was I wrong. I ended up lifting the topping lift to let the stack pack clear my head and ended up having a better sail shape. We got 7.2 knots in 18 knots of wind. Great sail. When done, dropped the said into the stack pack and zipped ut up...

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Mark "Gunny" Collins

gunny....@retusmc.com

12 Springwood Drive

Rochester, Ma.  02770

(774)320-0509

"Semper Fi"