Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

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Barry Stott

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Aug 9, 2020, 12:55:07 AM8/9/20
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> I happened across an interesting YouTube channel called "Sailing Uma." It's the name of a 50-year-old 36-foot cruising sailboat that an attractive young Canadian couple bought (apparently for $3000), spent a couple of years refitting (which continues), and have been sailing it all over the world, supporting themselves (as far as I can tell) by making pretty decent videos and putting them on YouTube. I guess they've become what's now called "influencers"--a new term, not to be confused with "influenza."
>
> I've only browsed a few of their episodes, but a couple seemed worth passing on to you. One is an interior tour of their boat, and how they've refitted it. This might be interesting as a source of ideas that could be used on a Nonsuch of similar size. Obviously, they're on a budget, and did basically all of the work themselves.
>
> The other, and the one that I find particularly interesting, is that they've converted it from diesel to electric auxiliary power. Their current "kicker" is a direct-drive electric motor powered by a 48V bank of Li-ion batteries, charged both by a decent-size permanent solar panel over the cockpit (or, of course, shore power if they're in a marina) and, when underway, by letting their propeller "free-wheel" and drive the motor as a (re)generator. They generate about 500 watts when under sail at five knots. Apart from their (alcohol) cooktop and woodstove for heating in the Great White North, everything is electric, including microwave, electric kettle, two refrigerators or freezers (both of them can run in either mode), electric toilet, etc. as well as all the usual boat electronics. Anyway, interesting and enjoyable to view. Barry Stott
> Chadds Ford, PA
> ebs...@aol.com



Ehrich Rose

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Aug 9, 2020, 8:37:29 AM8/9/20
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I have watched several of their videos. As well as a couple of others that have electric motors.   They and "Rigging Doctor" have both crossed the Atlantic on electric power.   I have made Kahuna an all electric Boat.   No Diesal no propane.   I carry about one gallon of gas inside a suitcase 2k generator, and another gallon in a one gallon gas jug.  Both of which fit perfectly in the old propane locker.  I cut vent holes for possible fumes.

I carry a 48v 410 AH battery bank. With a 5k inverter charger. And my motor is 10k Quiet Torque.   I get trickle regen at about 4.6 knts. But at around 5.2 knts, it will regen around 75 watts.  

In galley it is all electric.....microwave, electric skillet, george foreman, electric kettle, instapot. Toaster oven.   I can cook everything that i know how to cook.   Which is all basics, nothing gourmet.

I have 12v/120 Norcold 5.3 cold plate fridge, and 120v Wynter dorm stlye 2.1 freezer.   

I have isotherm 3 gal 120v water heater.  

All LED lights...

Toshiba 6k btu home window AC.

I also have 560 watts of solar.


At anchor.   I have run AC for 4 hours. Kept instruments on, cooked a hotmeal, took a hot shower, and hung out for 4 hours during day with good sunlight, and i used 45 AH of battery....roughly 11% of battery bank.   I did not use genetator.   Still hoping to do long sail at over 5 knts to measure true regen capability.  So motored 2 hours in/out of channel....sailed 4 hours sub 5 knts..anchored/swam 4 hours....end of sail..plugged into shore power having used 35% DOD of battery.

ELECTRIC IS THE FUTURE.  No diesel smell, or engine spare parts.  Btw...for another discussion..i have no holding tank...i use laveo dry flush toilet....no real experience yet....so reserving comments on how great that is.  Or if it was a bad idea.....but no holding tank smell either...

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U #391
Hernando Beach Florida

From: 'Barry Stott' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 11:55:04 PM
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Subject: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power
 
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W C

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Aug 9, 2020, 10:47:18 AM8/9/20
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Agree.  The future is solar and battery technology.

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Mike

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Aug 9, 2020, 2:18:17 PM8/9/20
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Barry

I've looked at the Sailing Uma site from time to time. She's is a little too bubbly for my taste. :) They have since installed a more robust Ocean Volt electric motor. Which is one of the advantages of EP i.e.the ability to easily upgrade.  Still Impressive they crossed the Atlantic with their home brew electric motor though. Though not as impressive as this fellow who I follow more closely who is does his cruising  without an engine. Transatlantic 2020, Ep. 6: The North Atlantic Roars




Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U


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Mike

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Aug 9, 2020, 2:40:13 PM8/9/20
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Ehrich

Always good to hear about another Nonsuch joining the electric fleet. Sounds like a sweet EP setup you have. What kind of batteries are you using? I've got four 210 Amp AGM's at 48 volts but I don't have the electrical loads you have. I also kept the house 12 volt batteries separate from the EP side of things. I also have separate solar panel systems. 150 watts for the 12 volt house bank and 120 watts for the 48 volt bank. What size and voltage are your panels and how are they wired?  Would love to see some photos. You've got me thinking that maybe a solar upgrade might be in order for BIANKA after 12 years.

Mike
BIANKA
1986 30U

Ehrich Rose

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Aug 9, 2020, 6:32:21 PM8/9/20
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Mike,

You are my electric nonsuch hero.  It was reading your blog for a year that gave me the confidence to take the plunge. 

I have 8x Full River 6v 410 Ah AGM batteries.  They are located durectly behind the motor.  I also have a separate 12v 100 ah battery that I use to run the windless and exturn stern thruster.   I use a dedicated 50 watt solar to keep that battery charged.  I have 400 watts on the roof and 160 watts on davits to charge the 48v battery.  My solar is rigged in parallel and connected to gensun 48v boost solar controllers to get 12v pannels to charge 48v battery.

Since i use the single 48v bank to run both the house and motor, i also use two 48v to 12v step down victron 30 amp converters.   That provides suffucient current to run house 12v system less the windlass and thruster which is on the dedicated battery.  

I also have the Victron 48v 5k watt quattro inverter charger.  This beast charges the 48v bank from shore power, and inverts up to 5k watts to run the AC circuit.  That circuit runs galley appliances, freezer, water heater, and air conditioner.   I use power management to limit total AC voltage to no more than 3500 watts at a time.  I am away from boat, but next week I will post photos of solar and my "electrical cabinet" that houses the system.
Image

Image

The wind generator is ampair 100, but currently not hooked up to battery.  I am debating eliniminating, replacing, or hooking it up.   Need more time on water before I decide.

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U # 391
Hernando Beach FL
From: 'Mike' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2020 1:38:33 PM
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Subject: Re: "Sailing Uma" and electric power
 

Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

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Aug 9, 2020, 7:06:34 PM8/9/20
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Ehrich -

Electric, shmelectric ........

The hard dodger in the photo is EXTRAORDINARY. Who built that ?? Or did you buy the boat with it ?? What a hell of a design. Ok - the whole electric setup is a thing of beauty. You own a very neat ship, sir.

Ernie A. in Toronto
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biank...@verizon.net

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Aug 11, 2020, 9:52:37 AM8/11/20
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Glad to have inspired you Ehrich. Back in 2008 I  had no other models to follow so it was a leap of faith back then. I also like that cabin enclosure you have. Looks like you have more room for additional solar panels too. As for wind generator. I had a 48 volt Marine AirX onboard for eight years. Worked well enough but, the solar panels kept things pretty much topped up. The internal windings burnt up a month after the warranty ran out. I sent it back for repair and they said it was not repairable. So I decided not to get a new one. Instead I will put the money toward more solar panels. I was originally  able to incorporate two 48 volt Kanaka solar panels as part of my Bimini. They are still working great 12 years later. But are large and heavy.. I'm  not sure they are still made.. I would like to add more solar so 12 or 24 volt panels might have to be used.  Look forward to more photos of your conversion and setup.

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Ehrich Rose

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Aug 17, 2020, 10:28:23 AM8/17/20
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Back on boat. Here are some photos of the electrical brains. And solar array.    the blue box is the inverter/charger and is the heart of whole system.  Inverts 5000 watts to run all electric boat.  I alsi have a small 18 amp 48v charger that i use to charge battery from generator.

Image

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U #391
Hernando Beach Florida

Image

From: biankablog via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 9:52 AM
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Subject: Re: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

Ward Woodruff

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Aug 17, 2020, 11:01:13 AM8/17/20
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Hi Ehrich,
That looks like a well planned, neat installation.  Do you have covers for the unprotected buss bars in the lower right of the interior photo.
What are you powering with 5KW of inverter?  
What size is your house battery bank?  Is the house bank 48 volts?  
Did you do that to reduce the low voltage wire size for the inverter?  
Do you have any items on the boat that consume 48 volt DC power?

Ward Woodruff
N33, #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT


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Ehrich Rose

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Aug 17, 2020, 11:35:59 AM8/17/20
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Ward,

I Will try and answer your questions.   Good idea to get covers for all bus bars...i will add to my list.  I have a single 48v 410 ah AGM battery bank.   That runs the 48v electric motor and supplies the inverter.   I oversized the inverter because in higher temps, it inverts  less wattage.   So in reality, in summer heat my 5k inverter will only invert around 3500 watts.  That will allow me to run 2-3 applianced simultaneously... ie Air conditioner and microwave etc...

You will also notice a 48v to 12v converter.   I actually have a second one on opposite wall as well.   Those coverters convert the 48v to 12v to run the standard 12v circuit. (Lights, nav equipment, pumps, radios). 

Due to high amp requirements for both windlass and stern thruster, i also have a single dedicated 12v 100ah battery just to run those two items.   It gets charged by a single 50 watt solar panel.

I chose to use the single large 48v battery for both house and motor to maximixe regeneration from both solar and when under sail.    

So far it has been working well...and yes..i can have air conditioning off my battery..  i use a toshiba 6k btu window ac.  It uses 550 watts, and i can set up or stow in five minutes.   Best thing i did.  It June, i ran it at night 12 hours set at 75 degrees.   Used about 40 ah.   Or 10% of 48v battery. 

Image



Image

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS30U #391
Hernando Beach Fl
From: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com <ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ward Woodruff <wwoo...@hdairnow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020, 11:01 AM
To: ina-nonsuch-di...@googlegroups.com

Ward Woodruff

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Aug 17, 2020, 11:52:41 AM8/17/20
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Ehrich,

Thanks for your quick reply.
I forgot we were looking at a boat with electric propulsion.  It all makes sense.
It is amazing that you get all that air conditioning capacity at a modest battery consumption.
Am I correct that your 410 AH @48 volts equals the energy of 1640 AH @ 12 volts?

Ward Woodruff
N33, #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT

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Ehrich Rose

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Aug 17, 2020, 1:09:48 PM8/17/20
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You are correct in your math.....now for the bad news....pop up thunder storm. I just got hit by lightning.   My neighbor saw the hit. .....i just inspected boat.   Boat is electrically dead.....my blue box (inverter charger) was smoking like a chimney.   Almost deployed fire extinguisher....48v system dead. 12v system dead.   Isolated 12v battery is working.   I hope other than the blue box, i hope the fuses protected the electronics.  No way to tell...48v battery monitor is working so 48v bank appears to be fine...BUT Nonthing getting any juice.  dont know if motor is ok....it too is dead....just called insurance.....so frustrsting....at least no fire...shut everything down, unplugged from shore power.   Hard to believe.

Wife gave me a hug.

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS30U #391
Hernando Beach Fl.

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U #391
Hernando Beach Florida

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52:02 AM
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Ward Woodruff

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Aug 17, 2020, 1:30:14 PM8/17/20
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I feel for you.  I hope the damage is limited and the insurance company is cooperative.

We have fewer T'storms up here but boats at our club and the club flagpole have been hit over the years.

Ward Woodruff
N33 #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT

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Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto

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Aug 17, 2020, 2:40:45 PM8/17/20
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Ehrich ...

You deserve a VERY BIG hug. My heart goes out to you, my friend, (along with the hearts of all us). Glad you were not aboard and there were no injuries. Actually, I was just about to tell you that your boat, with the A/C in the lower companionway, is the only other Nonsuch that I've seen with that configuration. Except, mine runs on 110 from the dock and is a 4000 BTU unit - tiny, but it sure works. That is what I was going to discuss when I read about this lightning hit.

I'll attach a few photos for therapy (to get your mind off of what you are REALLY worrying about). Actually, you know what ?? It'll all be OK and the insurance will take care of it. You'll see.

Keep your chin up, skipper.

Ernie A. in Toronto

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020, 11:01 AM

Subject: Re: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

Hi Ehrich,
That looks like a well planned, neat installation.  Do you have covers for the unprotected buss bars in the lower right of the interior photo.
What are you powering with 5KW of inverter?  
What size is your house battery bank?  Is the house bank 48 volts?  
Did you do that to reduce the low voltage wire size for the inverter?  
Do you have any items on the boat that consume 48 volt DC power?

Ward Woodruff
N33, #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:28 AM Ehrich Rose <ehric...@gmail.com> wrote:
Back on boat. Here are some photos of the electrical brains. And solar array.    the blue box is the inverter/charger and is the heart of whole system.  Inverts 5000 watts to run all electric boat.  I alsi have a small 18 amp 48v charger that i use to charge battery from generator.

Image

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U #391
Hernando Beach Florida

Image
From: biankablog via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 9:52 AM

Subject: Re: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

Glad to have inspired you Ehrich. Back in 2008 I  had no other models to follow so it was a leap of faith back then. I also like that cabin enclosure you have. Looks like you have more room for additional solar panels too. As for wind generator. I had a 48 volt Marine AirX onboard for eight years. Worked well enough but, the solar panels kept things pretty much topped up. The internal windings burnt up a month after the warranty ran out. I sent it back for repair and they said it was not repairable. So I decided not to get a new one. Instead I will put the money toward more solar panels. I was originally  able to incorporate two 48 volt Kanaka solar panels as part of my Bimini. They are still working great 12 years later. But are large and heavy.. I'm  not sure they are still made.. I would like to add more solar so 12 or 24 volt panels might have to be used.  Look forward to more photos of your conversion and setup.
On Aug 9, 2020 12:55 AM, 'Barry Stott' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


> I happened across an interesting YouTube channel called "Sailing Uma." It's the name of a 50-year-old 36-foot cruising sailboat that an attractive young Canadian couple bought (apparently for $3000), spent a couple of years refitting (which continues), and have been sailing it all over the world, supporting themselves (as far as I can tell)  by making pretty decent videos and putting them on YouTube.  I guess they've become what's now called "influencers"--a new term, not to be confused with "influenza."
>
> I've only browsed a few of their episodes, but a couple seemed worth passing on to you.  One is an interior tour of their boat, and how they've refitted it.  This might be interesting as a source of ideas that could be used on a Nonsuch of similar size.  Obviously, they're on a budget, and did basically all of the work themselves.
>
> The other, and the one that I find particularly interesting, is that they've converted it from diesel to electric auxiliary power.  Their current "kicker" is a direct-drive electric motor powered by a 48V bank of Li-ion batteries, charged both by a decent-size permanent solar panel over the cockpit (or, of course, shore power if they're in a marina) and, when underway, by letting their propeller "free-wheel" and drive the motor as a (re)generator.  They generate about 500 watts when under sail at five knots.  Apart from their (alcohol) cooktop and woodstove for heating in the Great White North, everything is electric, including microwave, electric kettle, two refrigerators or freezers (both of them can run in either mode), electric toilet, etc. as well as all the usual boat electronics.  Anyway, interesting and enjoyable to view.                                                                                                                                                       Barry Stott
> Chadds Ford, PA
> ebs...@aol.com



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AC exterior covered.jpg
AC exterior with table.jpg
AC naked.jpg
AC with extended steps.jpg

Mike BIANKA

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Aug 18, 2020, 7:29:14 AM8/18/20
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
Eric I will post a response to this sad development in the ELECTRIC NONSUCH thread as I think it will be more informative when discussion Electric auxilary powered Nonsuches. 


On Monday, August 17, 2020 at 1:09:48 PM UTC-4, Ehrich Rose wrote:

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020, 11:01 AM

Subject: Re: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

Hi Ehrich,
That looks like a well planned, neat installation.  Do you have covers for the unprotected buss bars in the lower right of the interior photo.
What are you powering with 5KW of inverter?  
What size is your house battery bank?  Is the house bank 48 volts?  
Did you do that to reduce the low voltage wire size for the inverter?  
Do you have any items on the boat that consume 48 volt DC power?

Ward Woodruff
N33, #8 Margery
Niantic Bay, CT


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 10:28 AM Ehrich Rose <ehric...@gmail.com> wrote:
Back on boat. Here are some photos of the electrical brains. And solar array.    the blue box is the inverter/charger and is the heart of whole system.  Inverts 5000 watts to run all electric boat.  I alsi have a small 18 amp 48v charger that i use to charge battery from generator.

Image

Ehrich Rose
SV Kahuna
1987 NS 30U #391
Hernando Beach Florida

Image
From: biankablog via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020, 9:52 AM

Subject: Re: Fwd: "Sailing Uma" and electric power

Glad to have inspired you Ehrich. Back in 2008 I  had no other models to follow so it was a leap of faith back then. I also like that cabin enclosure you have. Looks like you have more room for additional solar panels too. As for wind generator. I had a 48 volt Marine AirX onboard for eight years. Worked well enough but, the solar panels kept things pretty much topped up. The internal windings burnt up a month after the warranty ran out. I sent it back for repair and they said it was not repairable. So I decided not to get a new one. Instead I will put the money toward more solar panels. I was originally  able to incorporate two 48 volt Kanaka solar panels as part of my Bimini. They are still working great 12 years later. But are large and heavy.. I'm  not sure they are still made.. I would like to add more solar so 12 or 24 volt panels might have to be used.  Look forward to more photos of your conversion and setup.
On Aug 9, 2020 12:55 AM, 'Barry Stott' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:


> I happened across an interesting YouTube channel called "Sailing Uma." It's the name of a 50-year-old 36-foot cruising sailboat that an attractive young Canadian couple bought (apparently for $3000), spent a couple of years refitting (which continues), and have been sailing it all over the world, supporting themselves (as far as I can tell)  by making pretty decent videos and putting them on YouTube.  I guess they've become what's now called "influencers"--a new term, not to be confused with "influenza."
>
> I've only browsed a few of their episodes, but a couple seemed worth passing on to you.  One is an interior tour of their boat, and how they've refitted it.  This might be interesting as a source of ideas that could be used on a Nonsuch of similar size.  Obviously, they're on a budget, and did basically all of the work themselves.
>
> The other, and the one that I find particularly interesting, is that they've converted it from diesel to electric auxiliary power.  Their current "kicker" is a direct-drive electric motor powered by a 48V bank of Li-ion batteries, charged both by a decent-size permanent solar panel over the cockpit (or, of course, shore power if they're in a marina) and, when underway, by letting their propeller "free-wheel" and drive the motor as a (re)generator.  They generate about 500 watts when under sail at five knots.  Apart from their (alcohol) cooktop and woodstove for heating in the Great White North, everything is electric, including microwave, electric kettle, two refrigerators or freezers (both of them can run in either mode), electric toilet, etc. as well as all the usual boat electronics.  Anyway, interesting and enjoyable to view.                                                                                                                                                       Barry Stott
> Chadds Ford, PA
> ebs...@aol.com



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