Interest level sought - lithium battery workshop

[Aloki / Oyster Bay NY]

Morning all,

Please let this post serve as a request to see the level of interest for a workshop on lithium batteries similar to a workshop on diesel engines last year at Stratford Safe Harbor marina , Ct. 

Lithium is a complex subject, but the intent here is to simplify with a system that could be added to a Nonsuch (or any other boat really) that involves the minimum amount of work and expense. The event will be on a Saturday morning ( probably December 13)and in the general location of New Haven Ct. 

Please sound off if you’d be interested in attending. At present (until I secure the location) there would be no cost to the participant unless they stay for lunch. Thanks, Gary 

(Western Long Island Sound Nonsuch Group) 

[Ward Woodruff]

I believe I can attend that event that day. 

Ward Woodruff

413-847-0620 cell

On Sep 22, 2025, at 10:29 AM, 'Aloki / Oyster Bay NY' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Morning all,

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[ed.b...@gmail.com]

Hi Gary,

 

I am very interested in attending your proposed workshop.  Any chance this workshop could be in person but also virtual, via ZOOM, TEAMS, or similar platform?

 

…..Ed

Ed and Marlene Brost

SaSeaCat - NS30U/322

Sarnia Yacht Club

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[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

I would attend.... and ( if deemed useful) offer the same "low tech" recording option that I used for the diesel workshop. 

Rob

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Cedar Point YC

Westport, CT

[Brian Godfrey]

   While you are right to focus on lithium, the main option to lead/acid right now, it might be nice to touch on Carbon-Lead and Sodium Ion batteries as well.  I recall that Thor is either considering or already has the Carbon-lead batteries and maybe someone else?  Sodium ion batteries are just becoming affordable and commercially available in Asia and will probably be widely available here in the US within a couple of years.  They are very similar to Lithium ion (but maybe not LiPO4?) but have some advantages and disadvantages.  For one thing, they are not prone to fire or explosions.  And there is an almost unlimited supply of sodium, while the supply of lithium is very limited.

   I cannot attend, but I'd sure like to see a recording of the presentation.  Thank you for organizing it!

--Brian M. Godfrey

   Vela, NS33 #77, San Diego

[Brian]



Gary,

I have interest in this event and will be looking forward to more information as it comes available.

I enjoyed the diesel workshop and also Robs video last year.

Brian Cayer

Spirit~Wind

N30U 419

Westbrook, CT

On Sep 23, 2025, at 1:29 PM, Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT <rob....@gmail.com> wrote:

I would attend.... and ( if deemed useful) offer the same "low tech" recording option that I used for the diesel workshop. 

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[Peter Derosa]

I am interested 

Peter DeRosa

NS 30 Sea Rose

Niantic, CT

[Michael Stangl]

We are interested in attending.

Mike Stangl

Mariposa

NS 30U  Hull#272

Dutch Harbor, RI

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/CAFOfpNWX4WCraMskZDguKqJ_FRd-KaEBf-gbM6xgGjsHPfTF0w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Brian and everyone, 

I share your interest in the variety of battery chemistries that are in development.  I also find it interesting to see the role of power management grow in marine applications.  It seems like along with investment in storage one has to also invest in power management, although some systems are sold as bundled solutions so management is hidden from the end-user.

In the abstract, our boats all have one or more of each energy source (  shore power, alternator, solar... ), energy storage ( batteries, cold boxes, hot water tanks ) , and energy consumer ( navigation controls, lighting, compressor, windlass , electric winch, hot water heater, water maker, propulsion... ).  Depending on the equipment on our boat and use patterns, the "optimal system" will vary. 

Two variables seem to dominate power management design strategy  :

1. Shore power availability.   
2. Energy source used for propulsion.

The nonsuch boats I've seen, seem to fall into a couple general categories :

• Diesel aux propulsion with shore power being available 90% or more of the time might represent 75 % of boats.  
• Diesel aux propulsion with shore power being available 10% or less of the time might represent 20 % of boats.  
• Electric propulsion makes up the balance and probably has subcategories. 

Soave is currently in the first category, and I have interest in preparing her for extended periods without shore power, in our likely cruising range there are plenty of spots to pull into that would provide shore power, so enough storage capacity to go 4-5 days between recharge may be sufficient.  Probably less than a 10 times a year. 

I'm thinking the case for solar ( on Soave ) is pretty weak and the incremental value of each additional contiguous day untethered from power may diminish beyond 3 days, but having an extensible power management system that I could add days if needed by adding more batteries would be nice.

I'm interested in how other Nonsuch owners are seeing the power requirements on their boats.  

Also interested in solutions others feel have been effective.   

Rob

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Cedar Point YC

Westport, CT

[Aloki / Oyster Bay NY]

In response to some of the questions asked,

– We will need approximately 25 to 30 people to meet a minimum to run this event at no cost. So far I think we have six? Diesel workshop had 35 in attendance last year. 

– we will probably record the event thanks to Rob Cohen, offering to do so. We will not however, broadcast it live as there are a number of privacy issues and feel that this would dilute the attendance level, which is important. I’m suggesting the New Haven Ct area as to attract those west and east of Stratford Shoals in Long Island Sound. 

– although carbon lead and even solid state, batteries are of interest this workshop will focus on lithium. If there’s an opportunity to touch on the newest technology as well we will incorporate that into the program.Solar being incorporated to a system will also be included. 

– Rob brings up an interesting subject. Why and how are we trying to increase our house battery bank? I believe as Rob has also outlined it comes down to use of the boat. If you’re tied up at a dock versus at a mooring and you daysail vs hang on a hook while aboard your needs will be different. What creature comfort systems must you have aboard to be comfortable.  How often must you run an engine to charge and for how long? If the event takes place, I’ll outline a framework for those who attend to ask themselves. 

Pls comment & thanks, Gary 

[Aloki / Oyster Bay NY]

With the goal of getting more people interested let me share why I am looking at lithium.  If we don’t get a group of 25 to 30 interested the event would be cancelled. 

On Aloki presently, I have two battery banks. Bank 1/starting battery is a single 105 amp hour firefly AGM. That bank is fine and won’t be replaced.  Bank 2 / house bank is three Firefly AGM 105 Ahr or aprox 315 amp hour bank to draw on. This combination has worked very well for the last five or so years, but is starting to show its age. Time to either replace or upgrade. I thought about lithium in the past but discounted the idea because of the complexity and the less than sterling performance of earlier lithium type batteries. (did you know there are six types of lithium batteries - I didn’t.) Technology has definitely advanced the subject to where I think it is a viable and safe upgrade to my Nonsuch. A live aboard  electrical engineer friend of mine has the system I’m projecting (with more lithium batteries) in use aboard his 55’ Amel over in the Mediterranean for two years now and is amazed at the performance. 

So, after some research , I’ve concluded that Victron systems offers a reasonable and safe upgrade that offers a major improvement to Aloki’s house bank that would meet and exceed my needs. Victron batteries in particular have the highest safety record of ‘runaway battery’ issues. (basically, none) In speaking to my insurance carrier, ( you should as well) , adding Victron batteries to my boat will not void or alter my insurance coverage. 

Basically, the start battery remains as an AGM battery. A Victron dc to dc charger is wired to that AGM battery which then charges the new lithium house battery bank. A monitoring device (standard or premium) is added as well as changing out a multiple selector battery switch. The battery charger remains the same but will only charge the AGM battery, not the lithium bank. That’s it. ( a bit simplified but accurate) 

The goal on Aloki is less engine charging (the boat is on a mooring) and more service time for Refrigerator , heating, lights ,etc. On any diesel engine to electric motor conversion the lithium option makes a lot of sense. Couple Solar into the mix and one becomes quite self sufficient . 

With my 100A alternator or 110VAC battery charger the charging cycle for lithium is reduced quite substantially. Longer battery life cycles, lower self discharge rates and weight reduction from three AGM / total 315 Ahrs  @ 222 pounds to two LiPho /total 400 Ahr @ 90 pounds. Less weight and more amperage. There are quite a few other advantages but discussing them and your needs is the point of the event.  Hope to see you at the workshop.regards, Gary /Aloki/Oyster Bay NY