broken forward boom casting

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

We got caught out with too much sail up when a healthy gust hit us as we were  attempting to fall off onto a run.  (The wind was  a steady 17-18 knots and probably gusted to high 20's, although others told me they saw gusts into the low 30's.)  I am admittedly a bit foggy about the exact angle of the boom and the exact wind - it all kind of got erased by the big bang as the choker block busted out of the attachment hole on the forward casting and the sail and boom became a crazed monster dancing above our heads.  We got everything under control and are now faced with the repair.

Mike Quill has a new casting (at $1500 delivered) and I have a yard lined up to pull the mast and install the new fitting.  While stripping the sail yesterday, a couple of Nonsuches motored past my boat heading to nearby slips.  I went looking for them this morning to say "Hi", and noted that a 26  which had what appeared to be a stainless fitting wrapped around the forward casting.  Anyone know where you can buy such (the 26 owner said it came with his vessel, but thought it was a one-off piece)?

Murray Cressman  used to sell something that might have worked but has has died - anyone know if he sold his patterns to anyone?

Anyone come up with a method of lashing the choker block in place when the hole has blown out?

thanks.

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Lloyd,

I've attached pictures of two alternative solutions.  One, from the Nonsuch I'm in the process of buying, shows the kind of stainless fitting you mention (along with a different solution than I've seen before to the problem of the choker cheekblock on the mast).  The other, from the Nonsuch I currently own, illustrates the kind of lashing you're asking about. 

I think you could have the former fabricated by any local metal machining shop if they can be given the measurements from your current forward boom fitting.  I can ask the fellow I'm buying the boat from if he knows, but I think the work was done by a previous owner before him.

I know the latter can be done for you by a competent rigger.    My current boat came to me this way, but the lashing was redone a year or two ago when the block needed to be replaced.

Sorry about your problems, and hope this is helpful.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Correction to previous posting -- the pictures appear in the opposite order I was expecting, so the words "latter" and "former" may be a bit confusing.

The titles on the picture files should make clear which is which.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143 (for now)

[Mike BIANKA]

Lloyd

Sorry to read about your sailing season interruption. I was thinking one or two soft shackles wrapped around around the forward casting to hold the choker block to the mast might be a better solution to the hard metal that current holds the block. I have not done it but, thought about as a solution should the choker block casting let go on my 30U

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Jorgen Moller]

In Pondus’s former life with the wishbone I lost the choker the same way. I lived happily with a lashing until I changed to the standing gaff. 

Jorgen Moller,

Pondus NS26C #33

Toronto

On Aug 2, 2021, at 7:36 AM, 'Mike BIANKA' via INA Nonsuch Discussion Group <INA-Nonsuch-Di...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Lloyd

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[Val Aries]

Do you have a picture of your standing gaff set up? Just curious to see 

On Aug 2, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Jorgen Moller <jorgen...@ant.ca> wrote:



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[Joe Valinoti]

I’m sure there are several solutions, Lloyd.  I see no reason to pull the mast however, just drop the wishbone onto the deck to repair.

 

Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA

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[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

thanks for all of the kind words and ideas.  I have been discussing with the rigger at Safe Harbor Glen Cove, New York (who is familiar with my boat) going the soft shackle/lashing route.  My concern is that without the hole to keep everything centered, I will need something from each side to do that.  I have yet to convince myself that those centering lines will not slip forward (since the casting is more narrow forward), rendering them useless.

I attach a picture of what the break looks like.

One interesting thing is that the boom was out to the right/starboard when the incident occurred.  I haven't thought it out fully, but my initial thought was that more of the metal on the right should be missing instead of on the left.  I suppose too much twist of the shackle might be the culprit.

Jorgen - did you need to do anything to keep everything centered on your rig without the hole?  Was the break smoothed out before lashing to remove sharp edges?

Bob - the choker block lashing that you show - is that through a hole in the casting or was that broken out?  Since you are west coast, someone to do stainless work for me will not be useful - would rather deal locally.  I am fairly confident I can find someone if I go that route.

Joe - if the casting is removed, I cannot see it being done safely without taking the boom off the boat - the screws have been in since 1987 and will probably need some healthy smacks to loosen them up.  I also suspect that some of the bolts on the bottom may need to be removed and that will probably not work without turning the boom over.  The time savings doing the job on land will at least cover a portion of the costs of pulling the mast.  That said, if the yard wants to do the job without pulling the mast, it is fine with me.

Thanks for the ideas.  Is greatly appreciated.

Mike - hope your eyes are doing well.  Can you see your toes again without glasses?

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Lloyd,

I actually don't know whether my lashing was done because the hole broke or was done proactively.   I inherited it that way, and have never taken it off to check myself.

Yes, if you go the stainless wrapper route, you absolutely should do it locally.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143 (for now)

[Jorgen Moller]

When I lashed the choker block to the casting I didn’t do anything to the reduce the broken part. I did the work from a ladder with the boom pulled in to a comfortable distance. Because of the pull from the block, the lashing is self-centring, keeping the line away from the broken casting. I used the lashing for several seasons until I changed Pondus’s rig. I would not suggest to replace the casting. Lashings have been used throughout maritime history as a reliable and low cost tool. 

Jorgen Moller 

Pondus NS26 #33

Toronto

On Aug 2, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143) <rtne...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Lloyd -

I am a "lasher". Thank heaven for Dyneema/Spectra. It is tremendously strong. Jorgen is 1000% correct. As much as I'd support Mike Quill and his business (that we will miss) I would NEVER drop $1500.00 on a new casting (+ yard fees, labour, etc. $$$$) when you absolutely do not need to. Up here in the Great White North, most of us take a ladder to our masts twice a year to deal with rigging/unrigging the boom, etc. I just don't know if this practice is familiar to you but I'll go on the premise that you have been "up the ladder". 

After the ladder has been solidly "safety-tied off", go up the ladder with a short piece of line. The ladder should be long enough such that you can grab the front of the boom and pull it back to you, to the mast. Using that piece of line, figure out a way of temporarily tying it back in this position. Let's assume that is now done. 

Descend the ladder and climb back up holding the little rented (or owned) hand grinder. Get comfy up there and do your best to smooth out some of those rough edges, just a little.

Descend and head back up with 6' of 1/4" Dyneema and a choker block. End up by tying a clove hitch + half hitch with the line around the casting, through the "old hole" such that the line is tight enough and can't slip out. This should not be a problem. You should still have several feet of Dyneema left. Now, lash that block to the casting and go around and around, multiple times and tie it off when done. I cannot see how that line would slip to the side of the casting if it has been tightly tied. 

That's what I would do and I bet it's what Jorgen did. It should last a very long time. After all, the only thing that broke was the "hole" in the casting, not the entire casting.

IF all of this looks too daunting to be done up a ladder (understandably), then drop the boom and do it with the boom lowered then raise the boom.

I've attached a poorly drawn diagram but, taken in context with Bob Neches' photos of his lashed choker block, I think you'll get the idea.

Somewhere, you'd mentioned removing the mast to do this work. Joe questioned that as I do, also. Worst case scenario would involve dropping the boom - the mast needn't be pulled for any reason, whatsoever.

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Mike BIANKA]

Lloyd

You might have your rigger tap the forward casting to install an eye strap(s) to hold the soft shackles in place. Be sure to coat the screws with tefgel so you can easily remove them when needed. Attached is a photo of the straps I used on my solar Bimini.

BTW the eyesight is great. I'm hoping to get the ok to swim from the Dr on Friday. Until then I am just relaxing onboard enjoying the summer.

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[John Alexander Stewart]

Ernie and all:

"... go up the ladder with a short piece of line... grab the front of the boom and pull it back to you, to the mast. Using that piece of line, figure out a way of temporarily tying it back in this position...."

Take the clew reefing lines out of the blocks at the base of the mast, pull back and tie them off somewhere around the stern cleats, and the boom will stay where you want it when up the ladder. 

simpler to do it before climbing, at least in my experience! (for what it's worth)

John NS26C 046 Kingston ON.

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

Thanks again for all the ideas.  We have decided to go the lashing route, will drop the boom to the deck (because it is in the end a simple one person job that I have done 15-18 times in the past and it is simpler and safer to do the work at deck level), grind the rough edges on the casting, paint the exposed aluminum to seal it (a Mike Quill suggestion - the castings are anodized), lash on the block and then raise the boom back up and go sailing.

Just so you know, Mike Quill looked over the picture I attached earlier and agrees that the casting does not need to be replaced - sees  replacing that casting as a labor intensive job to be done only as a last resort.  Feels I am not that yet.

The only reason I would pull the mast for this repair is if I am replacing the casting.

I like John's idea of leading the clew reefing lines aft - I have them tied off on the bow cleats right now to center the boom while I figured out what I am doing.  Taking them aft would better stabilize the boom for while I motor to a dock to do the work.  I hate the banging around that will otherwise happen in waves and wakes.

Thanks again.

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Lloyd -

Glad this is working out. Good advice from Mike, as usual.

John -

EXCELLENT advice regarding getting the boom "dragged back". One of those "failing to see the forest for the trees" type of things.

Thanks.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[newelljc9]

I noticed that the hole for the shackle in my forward casting had become elongated due to wear when I bought Mascouche in 2006. All I did was add a stainless steel plate to the flat mid section of the casting with a hole for the shackle, then drill four holes and bolt it into place. I never had a problem since then. The total cost must have been under $100 dollars. Just drop the wishbone and do the work on deck. I can't send a photo because  I have moved on to a regular 15' boom weighing 30 lbs. on my standing gaff rig. (see photo) It is a pleasure to gybe. I do not miss the extra 5' on the foot that makes it necessary to reef early , the excessive weather helm or the heavy boom dangling over the cockpit..

The wishboom is a dangerous beast at the best of times and must never be allowed to break free. Anyone who has not reinforced the area where the choker shackle is fastened should make it a priority project. The cost of a small stainless steel plate will pay for itself many times over and possibly save someone from serious injury.

Cheers,

John Newell

Mascouche 26C 1

Toronto

[Herb Huber]

When I purchased MISTFFELEES a former Nonsuch owner came over to meet me & offered to take a look at my rigging. He pointed out a common problem in that the shackle hole on the forward wishbone casting was nearly wore through. Fortunately we had a ship repair facility close by. Another Nonsuch owner and I carried the wishbone into their shop and asked them to build it back up with aluminum weld. They augmented the hole so much so that I had trouble re-attaching the shackle, but it worked, and after 15 years there's still no sign of wear. 

Herb G. Huber, MISTOFFELEES 30C#91, Lake Huron Nonsuch Association.

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 8:55:25 PM UTC-4 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:

[newelljc9]

Sorry guys, my solution only works for the early Nonsuches prior to the $1,500 cast "nose" for the  wishbone. The solution for the cast unit is a good lashing as recommended by Jorgen and others. Yachts with the cast units that have not failed would do well to add a lashing through the shackle taking some of the pressure off the casting. At some point the aluminum cast is bound to fail without warning. Having a backup in place is prudent. Things tend to break at the most inconvenient moment. 

John Newell,

Mascouche 26C 1 (celebrating her 40th season this year) 

Toronto

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 8:55:25 PM UTC-4 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

Ok, so I have finished with my lashing and thought I would report further.

I used 8' of 1/4" Dyneema from Defenders in Connecticut, average load of 8600#, minimum load of 7700#.  Since the minimum order with them is $25, I bought 24'.  Ordered it last night and they got it to me today, much to my surprise.

This morning. I dropped my rig, and ground/filed the sharp edges smooth.  I cleaned it all with vinegar, water, and when dry, sealed it with Crazy Glue.  I ate lunch, chatted on the phone with my Mom for 30 minutes and when the Defenders package arrived, went back to the boat and lashed my block on.

I first whipped the ends of my 8' length.  I then used a clove hitch leaving a long tail that I wove into the clove hitch in the manner of a timber hitch.  I then wrapped twice around the middle of the casting securing the shackle in the notch the break created, and then finished with a clove hitch/timber hitch on the other side.  I then sewed the hitches together on each side securing the tails and attached the block to the shackle.

Raised the rig, cleared everything up and will put on the sail and other canvas tomorrow and hopefully get a test sail in.  Depending on how it looks from the deck, I will let it go for a few weeks of sailing and then go up the mast to check on it.

Cost - $45 and I have enough Dyneema for two replacements, assuming the method I used works.

Thanks for all of your good advice and concern.

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Atta boy, Lloyd !!

That is, sincerely, a flawless job that will hold for the next 100 years. I'm not sure what type of "safety" you have on your topping lift (the line that will hold the boom from crashing down if the topping lift tackle busts) but some of this serious Dyneema will do the trick in spades. 

The only problem that I know of with Dyneema is that it feels "waxy" and knots tend to come undone. But, if you sew the knots like you did, it will never fail you.

Job well done, sir.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[tedsdad]

Looks good. That's similar to the way I lash the clew of my sail, and that's been plenty strong enough.  I bet the primary stress to be on guard about is abrasion from the sawing action of the shackle and touching the boom, and not so much the tensile strength of the Dyneema.

Good luck with it. I like your down-to-earth solution. 

Ed Cook

Chat-eau, N26C, #173

Middle River, MD

Sent from my Galaxy

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[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

Thanks for your compliments, but the sewing could have been done better.  Hand sewing is one of my weak points - never liked doing it.  Could not figure out how to use my sewing machine to do the task!

The block I needed to use also has no provisions for mousing.  Don't know why Garhauer made it that way.  Hopefully Locktite does its job.

My topping lift safety is coated wire, as per the owners' manual.  I would think hard before I used Dyneema for the task.  Ignoring the need for eye splices at each end (outside my skill set), I would worry about it getting sucked into the blocks for the topping lift pennant.  I have managed to have even the wire topping lift safety sucked into the blocks.  That said, the Dyneema might successfully replace the topping lift itself.  The manual says it should be 3/16" coated wire.  According to Defenders, that has a breaking load of 3700# and costs $1.51/ft.  A  3/16" Dyneema substitute for that would have a 4000# limit, and also costs $1.51/ft.  Food for thought.

I may replace all the shackles holding the reefing blocks, etc. at the base of the mast with soft shackles this winter.  should be another good use for my excess Dyneema.

Be well; be safe;

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Mike BIANKA]

Looks good  Lloyd. Glad to see my future plan for a possible casting failure looks like a real possibility. Looking forward to your report to see how it holds up this season. BTW I installed soft shackles on the Leech reefing points last season. Unfortunately I did not do any sailing where I could see how they worked. Hopefully this year I'll be able to see how they worked out.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

I use blocks on the leech reef points on the sail and have held them to the sail with webbing which I sew closed.  Essentially a soft shackle at a very good price point - the webbing was left over from some other project.

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY

[Jim Lieder]

The attached image shows how the previous owner on my NS30 reinforced the attachment of the choker block to the wishbone.

Jim

NS 30 #350

Lake St Clair, MI

[Mike BIANKA]

Lloyd

Any update on how  the new choker block lashing setup is working out?

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous]

The lashed choker block has performed well so far.  I have been out with gusts of 20+ kts without any problems.  I have yet to reef.  I have yet to get hauled up the mast to check out the lashing  at close range, but will get up there soon.  The block is closer to the front casting, which may mean I am able to flatten the sail a tiny bit more.  Not something I have noticed.

Have much wind yesterday Mike?  You are on the east end of Long Island, are you not?

lloyd herman

Rendezvous, 30U

Port Washington, NY (aka western end of Long Island)

[Mike]

Lloyd

Conditions were much better than expected considering the east end was going to get a direct hit. It was more like a typical rainy day here inland. Gusts only to 31 knots much less than forecast. Though storm surge was a concern. I'm heading to the harbor today to check and restore things.

Glad to see the lashing is working out and you are able to enjoy the rest of the season.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

biankablog.blogspot.com 

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.

[Gary Forster]

Sorry, late to the convo…my casting was wearing down a few yrs ago so I  added a dyneema line with an antal ring instead of a block. It’s been working well and slippery for the last 3/4 yrs…regards, Gary Aloki NS 30329 

[Mike]

Gary

A couple of questions on your setup:

1) The choker line that goes through the Antel loop looks like standard type line is it dynema too?

2) How is the Antel loop attached to the casting? Soft shackle?

A detailed photo of the attachment to the boom would be great if/when you can.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

biankablog.blogspot.com 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/INA-Nonsuch-Discussion-Group/30d40a9f-b04b-4dd9-a499-c6464e817250n%40googlegroups.com

.

[Gary Forster]

Its dyneema & luggage tagged to whatever hole you’re using.. I replaced the stern turning blocks for the chute sheets as well with these antal soft blocks, no more wear on the stern aluminum howser castings.

  I forgot to mention , re Lloyd’s casting, that I had a similar break on the aft end of the boom years ago. I resolved it by making 2 stainless plates to fit the area (maybe .25 inch thick) with three holes in line. 2 holes as to drill through either side of the center hole break and one center (larger) that would be the new hole for the clew attachment. I drilled and through bolted the outward holes through the casting and used a soft shackles to the center hole. Works perfect and less wear on the casting. With inspection, easier to replace a soft shackle than a casting. Five years on, original shackle is fine.  I believe it would work well on the choke / forward and of boom as well. Regards, Gary 

[Gary Forster]

Re actual choke line, that’s some leftover stay set x. I replace that line every few yrs as it wears and must have had some laying around. I had used a piece of dyneema few yrs back but noticed a hard ‘make up’ /jerk didn’t feel right when under stress, I think something that gives more under load makes more sense. I removed the dyneema .

[Mike BIANKA]

Gary

Great solution/improvement using new the new technologies that have been developed over the years. Thanks for the info.

[ken...@gmail.com]

Bob Neches - I see from your photo that the choker turning block on your mast has been replaced with a floating/soft shackle attached block.  That interests me because (a) it looks like it would reduce friction and (b) I had trouble replacing my turning block this spring (stripped some threads).  How does it work for you?   Thanks.

Ken Julian

"Idyll Ours"  NS26C#9

Saint John, NB. Canada

On Monday, August 2, 2021 at 2:15:11 AM UTC-3 Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143) wrote:

Correction to previous posting -- the pictures appear in the opposite order I was expecting, so the words "latter" and "former" may be a bit confusing.

The titles on the picture files should make clear which is which.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143 (for now)

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 10:11:38 PM UTC-7 Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143) wrote:

Lloyd,

I've attached pictures of two alternative solutions.  One, from the Nonsuch I'm in the process of buying, shows the kind of stainless fitting you mention (along with a different solution than I've seen before to the problem of the choker cheekblock on the mast).  The other, from the Nonsuch I currently own, illustrates the kind of lashing you're asking about. 

I think you could have the former fabricated by any local metal machining shop if they can be given the measurements from your current forward boom fitting.  I can ask the fellow I'm buying the boat from if he knows, but I think the work was done by a previous owner before him.

I know the latter can be done for you by a competent rigger.    My current boat came to me this way, but the lashing was redone a year or two ago when the block needed to be replaced.

Sorry about your problems, and hope this is helpful.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 5:55:25 PM UTC-7 Julie & Lloyd on Rendezvous wrote:

We got caught out with too much sail up when a healthy gust hit us as we were  attempting to fall off onto a run.  (The wind was  a steady 17-18 knots and probably gusted to high 20's, although others told me they saw gusts into the low 30's.)  I am admittedly a bit foggy about the exact angle of the boom and the exact wind - it all kind of got erased by the big bang as the choker block busted out of the attachment hole on the forward casting and the sail and boom became a crazed monster dancing above our heads.  We got everything under control and are now faced with the repair.

Mike Quill has a new casting (at $1500 delivered) and I have a yard lined up to pull the mast and install the new fitting.  While stripping the sail yesterday, a couple of Nonsuches motored past my boat heading to nearby slips.  I went looking for them this morning to say "Hi", and noted that a 26  which had what appeared to be a stainless fitting wrapped around the forward casting.  Anyone know where you can buy such (the 26 owner said it came with his vessel, but thought it was a one-off piece)?

Murray Cressman  used to sell something that might have worked but has has died - anyone know if he sold his patterns to anyone?

Anyone come up with a method of lashing the choker block in place when the hole has blown out?

thanks.

[Mike BIANKA]

Gary

I have a Champion 3400 watt generator that  resides next to the mast. It is just tall enough that the topping  and choker lines rub along the top of it. I have been planing to add an extension shackle to lift the blocks and lines up about an inch or two. I was wondering if you think the Antal low friction rings might be a better solution to not only lift the lines but,  replace the clunky blocks around the mast collar? 

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

Ken,

I'm looking forward to being able to answer your question from personal experience, and will be able to do so soon but not yet.

The photo of the floating/soft shackle attached block that you're asking about is from the Nonsuch 26U I just bought.  It's currently en route to me somewhere between San Francisco and Los Angeles with a delivery crew on board.  The arrangement intrigued me, looks very promising to me, and performed just fine on a test sail in San Francisco Bay in 18 kts.   In addition to possibly reducing friction, I'm also hoping that it'll minimize chafing on the choker control line.

I was told it was rigged this way be an outfit called Easom Rigging in Point Richmond, CA after an earlier owner replaced the original aluminum mast with a carbon fiber one.  Those folks seem to primarily specialize in rigging high end racing boats.  I don't care for the colors they picked for the lines, but otherwise it looked pretty smartly done to me.

That's all I can tell you at this point.  I'm expecting delivery of the new boat Sunday or Monday.

The other photo in the post, which just shows a lashing of the block on the boom, is from my current Nonsuch 26C (currently for sale, if anyone's interested in looking at Marketplace on the INA website).  For the record, the boom casting on that boat is intact -- the lashing was done proactively. 

I had to replace the original choker cheek block on its mast, and did that one conventionally with another cheek block.  I lucked out and avoided your thread-stripping problem, but couldn't find a block that matched the trapezoidal hole pattern of the long-out-of-production original Fico cheek block.  I ended up paying an arm and a leg to get a block drilled to fit that pattern.    

Tentatively, I think the floating arrangement is a good way to go.  Had I thought of it when fixing the 26C, I would've tried it.

Small observation as I prepare to become a two-boat owner.  The monthly cost of a slip down here is 2/3rds of what I paid in annual tuition when I went to college.  The annual tuition when I went to college works out to a bit less than 5% of the annual tuition at the same university today.   The boat's worth roughly 40.5 years of my annual college tuition, but only about two years of today's college tuition.   Don't know if that puts waiting for my boat to sell in some sort of perspective, but it sure says something about inflation and how old I am.  And, at least I know it's better to be waiting for my current boat to sell than it is to be a kid trying to get a college degree.

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143 (plus one, starting next week)

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Bob -

I did the "floating" cheek block thing on my NS22 but in a far simpler way. I did notice the chafe that was resulting in the choker line rubbing on the mast as it headed to the choker block, in the front casting. I'm one of these people who thinks that Dyneema fixes everything. I simply tied a floating block to the cheek block such that it "floated" only just barely in front of the mast. As this line is always under tension, it always floated out there and never just collapsed against the mast. I didn't use a second line to hold it up or anything like that. It stayed just forward of the mast so that I could yank the choker back the same amount I would have, when utilizing the standard cheek block setup.

I used this format for a while and never had a real problem. However, the choker tackle lines, that normally run straight up the mast, leaned forward a little and did rub against (something ?? - I forget). Then, when I replaced the frayed choker line (with a nice dark blue one - a colour that I like !!!), I got lazy and just rigged the whole thing in a standard way. And, I took no photos of my "floating block" arrangement.

In short, I think it's a good idea and it will definitely prevent the chafe from the line rubbing on the mast. 

Hope your new boat arrives soon.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto]

Mike -

Unless I'm wrong, the choker and T/L lines are always under a certain amount of tension (unlike the reefing lines that are not, necessarily). Instead of using shackle extensions or extra solid hardware, what about simply tying both of these blocks to the mast collar with nice and thick Dyneema lines that will permit the blocks to go up exactly to the height that you'd need for the lines to clear the genny ??

Otherwise, IMHO, no matter how smooth these (not so cheap but high quality) Antal ring thingies are, I think that they'd add a certain amount of unwanted friction to these lines. I can't see how they'd provide less friction that an actual block.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Gary Forster]

Hey Mike,

Interesting idea. Thinking it through , my concern would be the angle that the choker & topping lift lines leave the deck mounted cheek blocks/ as well as any reef lines. The Antal ring would certainly elevate the lines off your deck generator but at what chafe cost to any lines under strain from/at  the deck cheek blocks. If you elevated or angled the deck cheek block it might have a better up angle. 

Only way to know is to dry fit the idea on deck. I’ll try it tomorrow when aboard Aloki and send a photo of the angles. Best, Gary.  Aloki NS30329 Oyster Bay , NY

[Bob Neches (Solar Wind, N26C #143)]

FWIW regarding low friction rings in the choker and/or leading lines aft:  last month's issue of Practical Sailor had a set of articles on the topic in which they commented that, "If the rope is deflected through an angle that is tighter than 90 degrees, or if the rope has a polyester cover, friction remains the Achilles heel of low friction rings."

-- Bob

   Solar Wind

   Nonsuch 26C #143 (plus another coming soon)

[Ken Julian]

Thanks Bob and Ernie for you comments on the floating cheek block question and sorry everyone else for straying from the topic.  All the best with the new boat Bob and let me know how the arrangement works out for you.

Ken Julian 

"Idyll Ours "  

NS 26C #9

Saint John,  NB

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[Mike BIANKA]

Ernie

Using Dyneema line or maybe a soft shackle to extend the block and line above the generator is a good idea. Less wear and tear on the mast collar too. Don't know why I was only thinking a metal shackle was the solution.

Mike

BIANKA

1986 30U

Long Island

On Saturday, August 28, 2021 at 8:42:15 PM UTC-4 Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 "Moustaches" Toronto wrote:

[Gary Forster]

Mike et al, 

Tried an Antal ring today next to the already installed block (the white with blue tracer). That blue tracer line is the topping lift. The angle of the horizontal to the vertical is clearly more than 90 degrees. I’d estimate 110 - 120 degrees in both original block and Antal version.

I noticed an increase in horizontal elevation of about two inches. (see photo), the angle from the deck ckeek block assembly to the Antal was marginal.  You COULD  make a longer pendant ( maybe a soft shackle ?)  and float that line a bit upwards more  but I’d be careful how high you elevate it based on the deck cheek blocks and potential chafe on the top of the cheek block retainer bar. I’d measure to make sure. Hope this helps..regards, Gary / Aloki

[Mike BIANKA]

Thanks Gary. I like the way the Antal attaches to the mast collar and the angle of the topping lift line does not look too severe. Personally I don't adjust the topping lift often so it might work out friction wise. Not sure about the choker line at the mast collar. Though the angle of the line in your Antal ring in place of the choker block on the boom is more severe and seems to hold up for that use from what you wrote. For now I might use Ernies advice and extend the blocks positions above the generator with some dyneema or soft shackle if I can fit it through the mast collar hole. I don't have to lift the lines much an inch or two should do it. Still the Antal ring looks like it has a place on our boats in place of some of the clunky blocks. 

[Bill Kroes]

After procrastinating over the winter about our cracked forward boom casting we decided to do a weld repair.   We hauled our 30 ft wishbone to a local marine welding shop and  had them repair the crack, fill in the thin section, and install a stainless steel sleeve to minimize future wear.   While I would have used the popular lashing solution, my co-owner (Rob Collie) felt that restoring the original functionality was the proper route to follow.   The attached photos show the before and after.  Toatal cost was Cdn $400 for the repair, and $200 for transportation.  This post was a great help to us.   Thanks to all who contributed

Bill Kroes

NS36-24  "Canatara"

Sarnia Yacht Club

Pt Edward, Ontario

(Sailing the blue waters of Southern Lake Huron)