Stack Pack Question

[Randy Gadikian]

Does anyone have a stack pack that has one zipper with no accommodation made for the reefing lines?  The vendor seems to think it is not a big deal to thread the reefing lines around the end of the zipper while standing on the coming and working over the Bimini.  

I think two zippers one pulling toward the stern and one pulling toward the bow is the way to go.

At 67 I can do the required gymnastics, but for how much longer I don't know.   :-)

Randy Gadikian

Phoenix Rising

NS26C #37

Buffalo

[theen...@comcast.net]

I have the Chesapeake Bay Zipper Top sail cover.  I had the 1^st one made with one zipper.  DON’T DO IT.  I had it modified to use two zippers as you described.  With one zipper it’s a PITA.

 

I think your vendor is wrong.  But….

 

Good luck with it.

 

Cheers,

 

Butch

 

 

Butch Garren

Nonsuch 30 #196  “Whiskers II”

SIYC Slip 12

Solomons, MD

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[Brian Godfrey]

   Mine has two zippers, one from each end.  And a good sized dodger.  I think it would be a real PIB to have just one zipper.  I'm not much older than you, but going downhill faster than I had hoped.  I'm really tired after a 6+ hour sail.  The whole idea of a stack-pak is ease and convenience.  Why give that up just because your vendor is a (probably still young) penny pincher?

Brian Godfrey

-- Brian Godfrey

[Mark Nerenhausen]

I have a Mack Pack with two zippers that meet in the middle.  Much easier.  Can't imagine having only one.  

Mark Nerenhausen

Penguin, 26C

Washington Island, WI

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

I "designed" my own "ErniePac" and based it on a zipper, starting at the tack and running about a third of the way down. Then, a second zipper continued until the point where one would NORMALLY gather the FOUR (2 per reef) lines that dropped from the boom to the flaked sail. On an NS22, that would be around 4' from the clew end of the boom. At that point, I left a 2" - 3" gap for the lines and continued with a third zipper (yup, a third one) that started at the clew end of the boom and came forward to meet the second zipper (at the other end of the gap. It worked beautifully and if one zipper bust or ??, you still have 2 other zippers. A few bucks more but, then, again, really long zippers cost mucho. The only possible snag in my design was, yes, the gap did let a teaspoon of water in during a good rain.

I would have a hard conversation with the (proposed) builder of the pack. You are the customer - He/she should be doing what you want. Personally, I will always recommend a Mack "anything". They do excellent work, in North America, at fair prices. They LISTEN to their clients and will quickly correct any problems. 

One long, long zipper sounds crazy, Randy. Good luck with this. Oh, measure the thickness of the 4 reefing lines. You may need a gap less than 2". I just guessed at it.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

What they said.

You can get by with leading all the reefing lines through a space about a third of the way from the clew, but one zipper for the whole thing is a recipe for misery.  

Which way you want the zippers to go depends on the size of your boat, whether and where you have obstacles like dodgers, and how you like to orient the boom.   

On both my 26s, I've had the aft zipper fasten at the clew and zip closed forward to the reef line opening and the forward zipper fasten at the head and zip closed aft toward that opening.

On the N36 I frequently help sail, both zippers fasten forward and zip closed toward aft.  It's really a question of what's easy to reach.

Consider having any top-loading cover sized generously.  If you ever buy a new sail, it won't stack and pack nearly as small for several years until it's broken in.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Brian M. Godfrey]

   I actually have one full length zipper with two of the zippy parts that you pull.  (Sorry, don't know what they are called.)  As a result, I pull one from the mast aftwards until I'm over the dodger and have the reefing lines bunched up there.  Then I pull the one from the clew end forwards until it meets the other one.  So I can make the meeting point anyplace that is convenient.  Though I always make it over the dodger.

--Brian M. Godfrey
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Brian -

You're zipper arrangement is very smart. I never thought of that. You can zip the cover shut right tight to the reefing lines - no rain ingress. Slick.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[329a...@gmail.com]

My Doyle stackpack has two zippers   - same as Brian described above. 

Gary Forster / Aloki / Oyster Bay NY 

[Pat Furr]

I’ve read some great ideas regarding the zipper(s) configuration for Mack Pack style sail covers. I think it would be great for folks that have drawings/photos/patterns for these type of sail bags to put together a folder that we members that are considering similar to view and take to their chosen loft.  I’m not tech savvy in the least to know how to do that file set up, so maybe someone can step forward.

  The single zipper with opposing fore and aft zipper thingys (pull tangs?) has really piqued my interest.  I’m also curious how the various systems suspend the bag from the cradle lines. Or if there is any need for one or two full length stiffening battens for the bag. Thanks guys and gals. This has been a great discussion. 

Pat Furr

NS 26C #133 Bandolero

Rye, NH

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[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

Don’t have a top loader sail cover but the part of the zipper that engages the teeth is called a slider and the part you grab to move the slider is called a pull or puller. Must admit I like the term “pull thingy”.

Mark Powers 

[Mark Powers La Reina 26C Vancouver, B.C.]

One more thing. With my saile cover I have two zippers that meet at the turning block on the boom for the second reef, however I still have to stand on the back quarter to aptie off the back of the sail cover to the boom. I pull the boom over to the quarter before putting the cover on so it is not too much of an issue. Even with a top loader and two zippers or two slides you will still have to reach the back of the boom. I already pull the first reef line to the back of the cover so not sure how much extra work pulling the second reef line back would be. I don’t have a second reef line rigged so I can’t test it out. I leave the reef lines slack  so moving them back is not hard.

I like the idea of fully covering the sail. No hole for UV or rain and pollution to get in.

Mark Powers

[Rob Cohen "Soave" NS33 Westport, CT]

Reading about stackpacks and zippers has me wondering what I'm missing.  

Soave has a simple cover that rolls out on top of her sail and fastens under.  An upper strap and zipper secures the cover to her mast.  The cover has slots for the sail support lines to cross from inside to outside the cover in appropriate places ( same for reefing lines ).

My only frustration is that when I drop the sail it tends to bunch forward so I have to run along the leach and tug back to get proper flakes in the sail.  I usually do this as we motor up the channel to our slip ( about 8 mins ).

Does the stackpack make this easier or better for the sail ?

Thanks,

Rob Cohen

s/v SOAVE

NS33 #009

Westport, CT

[Brian M. Godfrey]

   With the stackpack type arrangement the sail sits in it like laundry in a basket until you are ready to hoist.  It's nice because all you need to do to get ready to sail is unzip and connect the halyard.  You can do this at the dock and that's one reason I bought the boat that I did: I don't want me or anyone else running around on deck while underway.  My wife and I and our friends are all too old to be doing that and possibly fishing each other out of the drink.
   When you are done sailing, the sail drops into the stack pack and you zip it up when you get back to the dock.  It is quick, easy, and safe - good things when you are really tired. 
   The sail drops in however it falls.  There is no flaking unless it happens on its own.  I have no idea how this affects the longevity of the sail.  Flaking always exposes the same parts of the sail (the folds) to bending, abrasion, UV, etc.  So maybe the stackpack is better.  But it's like pulling your clothes out of the basket and putting them on.  They can be a bit wrinkly.  (I know this because it is how I live.  :-)
   I am very interested to hear the more authoritative members' opinions on which is better for the sail.
  
   I'm not sure how a stack pack would affect people who haul their boat every fall.  Seems like it would add extra hassle, but I'm not sure.

--Brian M. Godfrey
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Brian M. Godfrey]

   Yes, mine is also a Doyle, like Gary's.  It needs to be removed and gone over by a canvas guy.  (Anyone want to come help me remove it? :-) 
   It has a full length batten along the top edge of each side.  This is about a 1/2" diameter fiberglass rod.  One of the problems with mine is that whatever is supposed to retain the port side batten is missing or ripped out and so the batten creeps out forward when I sail.  Usually it only creeps out a few inches and I just push it back in at the end of the day.  The last time I went out the wind was directly up the exit channel from the bay and so we motor-sailed (rather than dropping the sail for a mile or two) until we could turn out and start sailing again.  And the batten slid out about 4 or 5 feet!  Felt like I was sailing a narwhal.  I really need to get that fixed.
   Hey, on that trip we saw about a 15 foot marlin repeatedly jumping out of a pod of a couple hundred dolphins.  Pretty cool.
 

--Brian M. Godfrey
  br...@wildbirdshop.com

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[Bob Neches (Me Gusta, Nonsuch 26U #233)]

In addition to at least two commercial designs for top-loading Nonsuch sail covers (Doyle and Mack), there are two DIY designs that people have used.

The documented one was written up by Ted Eedson, and is found on the www.Nonsuch.org website by clicking the MEMBERS tab, and selecting MEMBERS' TIPS & PROJECTS.  It's titled Nonsuch 26 Top Loading Sail Cover, but is adaptable to any size.

The other one I regard as having been pioneered by Butch Garren, but I happen to have the documentation on it.   Click on the three little dots to the upper right of this post to send me a personal message and I can tell interested parties about it.

-- Bob
   Me Gusta
   Nonsuch e26U #233
   Looking forward to seeing folks in Toronto:
        https://nonsuch.org/2024-INA-International-Rendezvous-Status

[Daniel Weinstein]

I have a single zipper on a "drop in" pack with two "tube battens" along the top of the sides (similar to what Brian Godfrey described).  Because I have run my topping lift forward to the mast / back to the companionway I can lower the boom easily for cover handling, etc.  I also have a lightweight line on the zipper tab (coiled small and hangs while sailing).  I lower the boom, have no issue pushing the reefing lines "out the back" of the cover at the aft end of the zipper.  Zip up to the mast (using that light line while over the cockpit) and then up goes the boom.   If I couldn't lower/raise my boom so easily (as in the original on-boom lift arrangement), I would NOT want a single zipper.

Dan Weinstein
Look Farther, 30C #205
East Greenwich RI

[Joe Weinbrecht]

Two zippers, meeting approximately at the forward edge of the Bimini. Much neater way to keep the lines. 

Joe

NS26C 

Sea Horse

Sassafras River,MD

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[Charles A. Mitchell, III]

The Mack Pack has 2 zippers, is easy to install, 1/3 the price of the doyle pack. Love mine!

Chuck Mitchell

Chill

NS 33

Cape Cod, MA

[Jim Hauser]

I have a Stack Pack, also with two zippers that meet in the middle, originally constructed that way.

Jim Hauser

Ruach

NS30 #461

West River, MD

On Jul 10, 2024, at 3:50 PM, Mark Nerenhausen <mneren...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a Mack Pack with two zippers that meet in the middle.  Much easier.  Can't imagine having only one.  

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[Don Crossley]

I have a single zipper, starts at mast, ends at clew. I attach halyard at dock. When I hoist, the sail splits the zipper open as the sail goes up. I have a 2ft line on the slider to make it easier to run the slider when re-zipping it. Both sets of reef lines come out at opening at clew end.

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[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Don -

I have seen the best of zippers jam, at times. They aren't constructed to "open" as a load is pulled up through them i. e. backwards. I might be being overly cautious but I think that, just maybe, it might be an accident waiting to happen. The sail or the cover (or both) could be damaged. If it was me, I'd open the whole bag then raise the sail. My two cents worth.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Don Crossley]

Ernie, when sail cover is zipped, the slider is at the clew end of the sail. The zipper just breaks open, starting at the mast as sail is raised. There's a velcro flap on the sail cover over the sail headboard at the mast to keep the zipper zipped. This is a common zipper setup used on many larger race boats for headsails.

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[Rebecca Raymond]

My husband and I have an older one zipper stack pack that is falling apart and we need to replace.

Several of you have recommended stack packs with 2 or 3 zippers.

We would appreciate photos and identifying manufacturer if you would send them.

Thank you,

Becky Raymond

Mike Stangl

Mariposa, NS 30 U

Dutch Harbor, RI

[esan...@gmail.com]

Chuck Mitchell, I would love to see a photo of your Mack Pack.  I'd like to know how it stays in place at the front while under sail, as I've heard it does not go around the mast.

Thanks, 

Elsie Sands

Seven Stars

NS26C

Maple Bay, BC

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Hi Elsie -

When I was germinating my ideas for a sailPac of some description, I took 2 shots of a MackPac on a non-Nonsuch (possibly, a smaller Benetau ??). Plus, I copied a shot of a MackPac on an NS26. I've included them here. 

Cheers,

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Ernie Abugov P/O NS22 o/b #56 "Moustaches"]

Further to this, this Pac looks like it's attached somehow to the mast. Noting that one should not drill any holes in the mast, I'd like to know how it attaches to the mast.

Ernie A. in Toronto

[Elsie Sands]

Thanks very much Ernie.  I appreciate.  We have our local NS rendezvous coming up July 19 to 22 and I’m hoping to see some MackPacs and other NS sail covers there.  Your photos are very helpful.    

Elsie

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