December's Meeting Minutes

[Beth Maxim]

HARMONY ORGANIC COMMUNITY GARDEN MEETING MINUTES

December 6, 2008

 

 

All decisions and votes taken tonight are provisional. If you disagree with any of the postings below or wish to vote on an item, please respond by December 1^st using the online forum. If there are no objections, we will vote to carry over all notes below at the beginning of the next meeting.

 

Meeting Attendees:

Geore Schiro

Glen Boisseau Becker

Joan Boisseau Becker

Donald Garwood

Pam LeMenager

Kerul Kassel

Nancy Snyder

Beth Maxim

 

 

CDD Meeting: CDD vs. Developer garden site

The garden meeting started with a recap of and discussions regarding the garden at the December CDD meeting:

Bob Evans said the garden should not be on CDD property, mainly because we can not exclude anyone from the garden. That could cause potential problems with 1.) running out of space and not being able to accommodate interested residents, and 2.) People taking other people’s produce

 

George is concerned about exclusion, and pointed out that by having a membership, everyone who wanted to participate in the garden could.

 

Nancy and Pam suggested that some of us speak with the developer, Shad Tome, who invited us to talk to him at the CDD meeting. Pam will set up a meeting to speak with him to get confirmation on his level of interest and what the water terms and accessibility would be. Pam will include Dave and George in the discussion.

 

We attempted to discuss the pros and cons of having the garden on CDD vs. developer property. Mainly, the CDD property garden would have a permanent residence, and the developer property garden would have to eventually be moved as that land was developed. Going with the Developer would probably allow us to start the garden right away and working with the CDD will take a significant amount of time. We decided that further discussion would be had after speaking to the developer.

 

As the cost of water is a serious concern, and based on Pam’s discussion with the developer, she will go to Toho and ask about a possible special rate, free water, etc. for our garden space. She will speak with Kerul first, and she and Don will contact Toho.

 

George suggested, to possibly persuade the CDD, to openly share our produce with everyone in the community, perhaps on certain days each month or when we had a large amount of produce. Nancy suggested that, while we sometimes grow more than we can eat ourselves, that this may deter others from joining the garden. An overall concern is vandalism of the garden and a non-gardener talking a large amount of produce

Does anyone know of any other CDDs in Florida who have gardens?

 

Grants

Don spoke with Jennifer at the Osceola County Extension Services. She is not away of any grant funds available at the county or state level, especially due to the budget crisis. But if she hears of anything, she will contact Greg.

 

Lisa, can you please ask your brother-in-law if we were to fall under the CDD and applied for a grant, are there even any out there to be had?

 

Does anyone else have any ideas for grant sources?

 

Next Meeting

The next meeting dates are up for Doodle vote: Saturday, January 3^rd; Monday, January 5^th; and Wednesday, January 7^th.

 

Kerul, Pam, Don, Nancy, Glen and Joan vote for Saturday, Jan 3.

 

Beth will post the date of the next meeting to the Google Group, and asks George to please post it to the Yahoo group as well in an effort to notify more people. Beth will also notify Bill Fife when the day is determined to possibly get some signage around Harmony for the meeting, or an email notification.

 

Happy Holidays!!

 

 

###

 

 

[kjhos...@earthlink.net]

Hello Potential Gardeners,

This is Keith. I came down to Harmony for your first organizing meeting last Sept.  I have been following your meetings with interest via the internet.

My experience with 2 community gardens in Indiana, where they were open to everyone, is that some will help start it by planting/working and some will watch. Many wouldn't harvest it because they didn't help start or work in it, and of course, there were a few who thought it was all for them.

In any new project there are risks  In this garden case the risks are not life threatening nor do they have insurmountable financial consequences even if EVERYTHING goes wrong.  Your group seems to be bogged down somewhat in group meeting "what ifs".  If you try to solve/prevent every "what if" that could happen before you start, it may delay your start date to 2010.

My suggestion (which you can completely ignore if you choose):  

• Choose a date when you want to start planting the garden
• Resolve as many "what ifs" that you can by the plowing date. You have many already finalized.
• Start planting in the garden plots
• Work out any further conflicts as they arise (and your garden continues to grow)
• Answer: "What is the worst that can happen if we start before all issues are resolved"?

Good luck and happy gardening!

Keith

[rescueg...@onebox.com]

Thanks for the input Keith.

However, the problem is not with the group.  The problem is that the developer is stonewalling us.  First they said they wanted to do it.  It would be on CDD land with a couple of locations as possibilities.  They even asked us which location we preferred.  They later came back with "issues".  Frankly, these "issues" are a bunch of baloney.  There are thousands of successful gardens around the country.  Obsiously noone said they wouldn't work because someone might steal produce.  Has this been an issue for any gardens you've been involved with?  (I doubt it)  The other "issue" is access.  Why is it so hard to understand the idea of a waiting list?  If the garden ever fills up, (good luck with that, with 160 plots), you either start a waiting list or, if there are enough people waiting, start a new garden.  This isn't rocket science.  Plenty of gardens have waiting lists.  That was even part of the rules from another garden that they gave us to look at and possibly model ours on.

Now they want it to be on developer land, which is guaranteed to be temporary, because they will eventually build on it.  Then we will have to start all over.  What I personally believe is that, in this economic climate, every corporate person has become excessively risk aversive.  Noone can do anything without worrying about what might happen. Right now, all the resident gardeners are ready to go.  It's the corporate people who are throwing up the roadblocks.  Believe me, if we had a place to plant, I would already be in there, and so would a bunch of other people.  We are not waiting until we can deal with every eventuality, we are discussing things to try to keep the idea from dying out while we wait for a garden to actually exist.       

--
David Leeman
rescueg...@onebox.com - email
201-406-0244

[Beth Maxim]

Well said Dave.

Keith, I agree with all of your comments. Going back and reading my notes, it’s easy to see the confusion. It may help to know that Bob Evans is the president of our CDD board, not “one of us” garden members. Otherwise it would certainly look like we are complicating things for ourselves! It’s always good to get an outsider’s point of view, and I’m always working to improve on my note taking!

 

Cheers,

Beth

 

---

st1:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }



<ZZZ!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.MsoFooter, li.MsoFooter, div.MsoFooter
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:ZZZlink, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:Arial;
color:windowtext;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-footer:url("cid:heade...@01C95B20.62BCC7F0") f1;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->

<BR

[Geo]

I am working today and I've been so swamped lately that I haven't had
time to do anything in online groups for quite awhile (I will restart
our discussion in the other group Dave, I promise. Hopefully soon).
That said, I could not resist responding right now.

First, I would like to thank Beth for posting the meeting minutes. She
is doing a much appreciated job, as usual. Second, I would like to
thank Keith for his input. It is much valued here.

Before adding to Dave's response I would like to take the opportunity
to clarify the meeting discussion (from my perspective) that was
documented by Beth.

It is my view that we should open up the Harmony Community Gardens to
everyone in Harmony who has any interest at all. This should include
gardeners who would like to actively grow crops as well as residents
who would simply like to admire the gardens and perhaps consume some
of the produce. A few of my fellow meeting attendees did show some
concern about non-gardeners taking vegetables, but I believe that such
opinions are as unproductive as our gardens are at this point. Let's
just get started. Open it all up to everyone. Then let's see what
happens. I really believe that if we make this amenity as open as
possible to everyone in Harmony from the outset, the residents of
Harmony will take personal pride in it, whether they actually do any
gardening or not.

I have no doubt that if and when we can actually start producing
crops, the gardeners will have enough to share with our neighbors. I
don't believe that we need to be worried about folks sneaking into the
garden and taking vegetables that they could otherwise get from a
store for a few dollars. If we all make it clearly understood that we
as community gardeners are happy to share whatever we can with our
neighbors, I trust that our neighbors will honor us with their
civility and their commendations for the efforts the gardeners will
put forth on behalf of the entire community. If our neighbors would
like some produce, they will ask and we will give whatever we can.
This is what community means.

I also believe that if we approach the CDD with this sincere openness,
the CDD will understand that the Harmony Community Gardens are for all
of Harmony, not just a small group of residents. This being the case,
I am sure that the CDD will not only set aside land for the gardens
but it will also provide water for the crops. This is what the CDD
already does for the common landscaped areas that benefit all of the
residents of Harmony. I am sure that the CDD will do the same for the
community gardens that will also benefit all of the residents of
Harmony.

What David has posted in response to Keith is absolutely correct. The
real problem with this project is not this group, but Harmony
Development Company and specifically Bob Evans. It is Bob Evans who
unilaterally reversed course on what we were previously told by Greg
Golgowski. For some reason Bob Evans wants to get his hands on this
project. I am not sure why, but I will endeavor to find out during the
upcoming meeting with Shad Tome on this topic.

Do we really want Bob Evans in charge of another amenity in Harmony? I
think not. What we need now is our 3 resident members of the CDD board
to override Bob Evans and vote for the benefit of the community rather
than for the benefit of the developer. Let's get moving on this. Let's
vote to allocate CDD land at the next CDD meeting or get the developer
to donate land to the CDD for this project. Either way, this will be a
real Harmony CDD amenity not just another developer marketing
opportunity.

Needless to say, if the developer comes through with the fencing, the
initial soil treatment and mulch (as we have repeatedly been told by
Greg Golgowski) and perhaps even if the developer donates a sizable
portion of land to the CDD (with plenty of room for growth), then the
developer, while not having control, will still have plenty of
opportunities to market this wonderful new amenity in Harmony. The
developer must simply learn to trust the residents of Harmony. They
must learn to treat us as adults and let us walk, stumble or run with
this.

If Harmony Development Company can simply get past its "excessively
risk aversive" ways, as Dave so aptly put it, then perhaps we can
finally do something productive with this.

On Dec 11, 10:23 pm, "Beth Maxim" <bma...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> Well said Dave.
>
> Keith, I agree with all of your comments. Going back and reading my notes,
> it's easy to see the confusion. It may help to know that Bob Evans is the
> president of our CDD board, not "one of us" garden members. Otherwise it
> would certainly look like we are complicating things for ourselves! It's
> always good to get an outsider's point of view, and I'm always working to
> improve on my note taking!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Beth
>
>   _____  
>

> rescuegreyho...@onebox.com - email

> 201-406-0244
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kjhostet...@earthlink.net
> Sent: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:19:25 -0500 (EST)
> To: harmonyf...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [HarmonyFLgardens: 178] Re: December's Meeting Minutes
>
> Hello Potential Gardeners,
>
> This is Keith. I came down to Harmony for your first organizing meeting last
> Sept.  I have been following your meetings with interest via the internet.
>
> My experience with 2 community gardens in Indiana, where they were open to
> everyone, is that some will help start it by planting/working and some will
> watch. Many wouldn't harvest it because they didn't help start or work in
> it, and of course, there were a few who thought it was all for them.
>
> In any new project there are risks  In this garden case the risks are not
> life threatening nor do they have insurmountable financial consequences even
> if EVERYTHING goes wrong.  Your group seems to be bogged down somewhat in
> group meeting "what ifs".  If you try to solve/prevent every "what if" that
> could happen before you start, it may delay your start date to 2010.
>
> My suggestion (which you can completely ignore if you choose):  
>

> *       Choose a date when you want to start planting the garden
> *       Resolve as many "what ifs" that you can by the plowing date. You
> have many already finalized.
> *       Start planting in the garden plots
> *       Work out any further conflicts as they arise (and your garden
> continues to grow)
> *       Answer: "What is the worst that can happen if we start before all

> mso-footer:url("cid:header....@01C95B20.62BCC7F0") f1;}