other trying patients (patience)

[ivy]

this post by lenaya brings up a couple of issues i have been struggling with.

and you all know by now that i am the last person in the world to be anti-student.

what do we do with the students that the Basic Comp professors are foisting off on us, because they don't want to deal with them?

i have one student in particular who just stares at me without comprehension as if i am speaking another language. how did he even get into Engl 1301 if he can't even write a basic sentence?

i am confused by the entire concept of "Open Admissions" and our role in it.

ivy

[Ronald Foster]

I'll sure say an 'amen' to that, Ivy.  Why in the world does our system send people into 1301 - this is not counting those 'late bloomers' who have not taken a class in ten years - when they can't even write a decent sentence or speak the language? What good does it do? And if they get another passing grade, how much value is the degree?

We as tutors try to be very patient with these students, but we find ourselves not teaching how to write but simply how the English language works. We'll go on and do our best, but we just think it is worth noting.  

Ron Foster C. 281-748-1994

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Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 09:28:42 -0700
From: ivyka...@yahoo.com
To: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: other trying patients (patience)

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[pwayne.stauffer]

Be careful with this statement and its implications:

the students that the Basic Comp professors are foisting off on us, because they don't want to deal with them?

That's quite an "assumption" to make...almost at the level of "accusation." Is it a part of the tutors' protocol/procedure to contact the classroom instructor regarding these students to determine what the instructor has done with the student up to that point? Or do we jump to conclusions as a first step ... ?



P. Wayne Stauffer, M.S.
English Studies
HCC Eastside Campus
6815 Rustic Rm AM101.30
Houston, TX 77087
713.718.2679
pwayne....@hccs.edu<mailto:pwayne....@hccs.edu>

This email may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this email in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this email is strictly prohibited.
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From: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com [hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of ivy [ivyka...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:28 AM

To: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: other trying patients (patience)

[selena.flowers]

Wayne,

Many of the students who seek our help are required to see a tutor. Their professors require documentation to "prove" that students have visited with tutor. A Tutorial Record is filled out and given to the student, and this includes any comments that may be helpful to the student and lets the professor know what has been discussed during the session. In this case, the professor, student, and tutor are collaborating on the writing assignment.

However, in some cases, students visit with at tutor of their own accord. They may not need documentation nor do they want their work shared with their professor. In instances such as these, we respect the student's right to privacy.

The question is where do the lines blur between counseling/teaching and tutoring? Tutors are not required to contact the professor if a student is not showing progress, but in the case of a collaboration, it might help to alert the professor if there are concerns. The professor can follow certain protocols if the student is unresponsive to learning. And, it is worth investigating: this idea of what the tutor's responsibilities are when working and possibly being invested in a student's learning experience.

Selena Flowers
English Studies
Houston Community College, SE
713-718-7166
________________________________________
From: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com [hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of pwayne.stauffer [pwayne....@hccs.edu]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 5:00 PM
To: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: other trying patients (patience)

[selena.flowers]

Ivy,

When working with difficult, apathetic, confused, etc. students, it may be helpful to refer to the Tutorial Records, specifically if that student has worked with a previous tutor. Based on the notes, one can decipher if the student has improved or just doesn't "get it." If the student is new, and as Robert has mentioned in previous posts, it may help to choose one aspect of the writing and focus on that. It could be going over the assignment and having the student tell you in his/her own words what the assignment is. It could also be a talk about the writing rather than writing itself. Sometimes having a conversation about the work can spark an idea.

But for the students who "can't seem to write a basic sentence," I honestly think it's not unusual to ask what's going on. Do we blame previous instructors or the student's lack of whatever? It may help to stay in the moment, and resist feeling sorry for the student or feeling frustrated with the circumstances. If you're in the moment, you can focus on the student's issue, which may not be a direct focus of the professor for whatever reason and, because, the WC might be the one place the student can seek refuge, help, or understanding. And, if that fails, as Ron suggested, you have to option to politely end the session if the student isn't interested.

Also, I've included a link about open admissions: http://www.hccs.edu/hccs/future-students/requirements/admission-requirements

Selena Flowers
English Studies
Houston Community College, SE
713-718-7166

________________________________
From: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com [hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of ivy [ivyka...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:28 AM
To: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: other trying patients (patience)

[Robert Lunday]

I've contacted Beverly about the "difficult student," and will report back to all when I hear as to what our options are. We will deal with it, so please be patient, and thanks for the information. You shouldn't have to deal with any abuse; follow Ron's advice, posted the other day. Politely end the session. 

Regarding ill-prepared students, open admissions, etc. Well, that's pretty much the job, isn't it? I know it's wearisome, day in day out, dealing with students who can't seem to write, think, listen...I work with them in the courses, like all faculty, and can't make them simply go away -- it is a community college. We have hard-working students, brilliant students, so-so students, and problem cases. Even horror stories now and then.

So, go ahead and vent a little on this group; the only faculty reading (presently) are those who tutor, Selena and I, and Beverly. However, do remember that these messages can be Googled.... and what I do, sometimes, is write a message expressing what I feel -- then calmly hit the Back button, and write something more politic. Nothing matters until you hit "Send."

Meanwhile, of greater value is strategizing, recharging, etc. By "recharging," I suppose I mean reminding ourselves of what we already know, which perhaps needs to be ritually revived now and then. Remember, for example, that you aren't meant to make the students great writers. You can't solve every problem in their essay, or in their lives, or in their day. If there is a draft, prioritize based on what the student tells you and your own assessment. If the student is dumbstruck, then that makes it easier, in that you can simply go by your own assessment. Focus on one thing -- one thing that seems of global importance, or one thing that repeats often, or one thing that you believe the student will be able to understand, so that at least you can end the session with a victory of some sort.

Anything else? We do this now and then -- any tips to share on the protocols of a tutoring session? 

[ivy]

Thank you, Selena, for your wise words, and thank you Robert, for your reminder that what we do isn’t easy, and that discretion is the better part of valor. I shouldn’t have fired off the post I sent the other day without sleeping on it. Thank you most of all to Danny who took over for me when the student I mentioned returned once again to the Writing Center. What I did learn from observing Danny as he worked with my “problem student” was that I had (grossly) misjudged the student. This student apparently is capable of doing the coursework that we are asking him to do. I just hadn’t asked him the right questions. I think perhaps I will spend a little more time observing other “professionals” tutor and less time trying to do it my own way.

ivy