Interesting Blog Post
Robert Lunday
pwayne.stauffer
It’s about setting expectations on both sides of the transaction—for both student AND tutor.
Although students may well benefit from what the tutor thinks is an intellectually stimulating conversation in the realm of ideas, most students are pressed for time and have only allotted a short length of time for the tutoring session. They want to leave the session with a sense of progression towards the writing that they think will improve their score on the assignment. I mean, most are not going to become writing professors. They want a functional understanding, not a deep philosophical understanding.
An analogy: (and yes, I am aware that all analogies break down at some point, so take this one as far as it’ll go…)
When I go to the dentist or doctor, I go to have a condition assessed and some form of treatment prescribed so that what ails me doesn’t so much and goes away. I know about flossing, and brushing 3 times daily, and regular check-ups, so I don’t really want to hear that again from my dentist, nor am I really interested in the increase in dental problems and experimental treatments and the intricacies of making prostheses; I just want my toothache to stop hurting. And if the dentist does that for me I’m happy. If my dentist wants more of these kinds of discussions, she or he needs to go to a conference or professional gathering. I’m not an expert in dentistry; that’s why I go to one.
Another point—I don’t go to the dentist for the sake of going to have the dentist work on my teeth. I want the dentist to work on my teeth, so that I don’t have this pain when I eat, or talk, or wake up in the middle of the night with a throbbing jaw. It’s a means to an end, not the end in itself. For most of our students, they come to the writing center because they know they need help (or the professor makes them), they just don’t know how to fix it themselves. Because they’re not going to become writing majors, they aren’t tuned into those things that will improve their writing. We know it takes years of conscious effort to improve writing, not just a few semesters of coursework or visits to the WC. Why should we expect our students master it in that time?
OK…tirade over…blast away…
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Ronald Foster
I think it's not just about writing, but communication in general, that if they will learn to write better, they will learn to communicate better, and to communicate better is to have the best chance at getting a promotion or even a job. You'd be amazed at how such logic 'strikes a chord' with these people, especially ESL students. The desperately want to get recognition and become successful. I think we need to remind them how important it is to be able to communicate well.
Only a few of us will ever become 'dentists,' or even professional writers, but we must all communicate, no matter what profession we chose. If we cannot teach students to become better communicators, I think we have failed, for they will only be perceived as 'professionals' and 'college educated,' if they talk like they are.
As to the article: Certainly we have all experienced this. I think, however, that when a student points out up front what they need help with, it's probably a good indication of where their weaknesses are - and a cry for help! 'Can you help me learn grammar and punctuation better - please?' For these students especially, I try to take the time to explain why certain grammatical and punctuation rules are the way they are - mostly to help them remember, such as when I tell them that for compound sentences, a comma is not enough, that they need both a comma and a conjunction, unless they use a semi-colon, of course, but if it is not, a simply conjunction will usually do. Sometimes, I just feel that taking the time to explain an issue with which they are experiencing difficulty helps them to know why the rule is the way it is.
Mechanics are just part of the issue, however, and whether they ask for it or not, I always address the overall scope of their essay, mostly to help them define their thesis and teach them how to use it. So, while I agree with the author, I think we should do both. For even if they understand their essay from an 'idea' point of view, without 'physical' clarity, even the best ideas will be difficult to comprehend, so they must understand how English is 'constructed' in terms of grammar and punctuation.
My pet peeve, however, is logic. But that's for another discussion.
Ron Foster C. 281-748-1994
From: pwayne....@hccs.edu
To: hccs_se_wri...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Interesting Blog Post
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 22:09:49 +0000
ivy
exactly like our Writing Center. We frequently experience the “funnel
requests” alluded to in the above piece. We often do not have
“intellectually satisfying” (in the words of the author) sessions in
the W.C., not because the students don’t want them, but because the
teachers want us to focus on the mundane everyday issues of correct
grammar and punctuation. Therefore, our challenge becomes, “How do we
introduce the concepts of “content” vs. “structure” to students who
are focused solely on structure?” Since this is college, theoretically
professors should be reading papers with an eye for meaning and
content rather than grammatical correctness.
However, because we are at HCC, and many of our students show up
unprepared for college, we at the Writing Center are purposely
relegated to the role of “grammar police”. We are here to ensure that
commas, and other punctuation marks, are placed in their proper
places. I believe this is not because HCC students, as a rule, are
incapable of writing papers that only need suggestions of the “word
choice” variety, but because we at the Writing Center see a “skewed”
population of HCC students. That is, we primarily only see the
students sent by professors teaching the Developmental English
classes. These students are still struggling to master the technical
and mechanical aspect s of the English language. We do, once in a
great while, see students who need help with content only and then our
job becomes “intellectually satisfying” for the tutor, as well as the
student.
I try not to worry about whether or not I am deriving intellectual
satisfaction in this job. I endeavor to celebrate all our students
and their individual learning needs. I admit, however, I celebrate
much more exuberantly, and noisily, when I do get students with papers
that only need the questions of content and word choice addressed. I
think I would be less appreciative of such requests if one day they
were to become commonplace. So I am thankful, in a small way, for
their relative scarcity, because it makes me value them all the
more. :)
On Mar 8, 4:33 pm, Robert Lunday <robertlun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.collegewritingprep.com/check-my-grammar-or-how-to-dash-a-w...