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Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 7, 2022, 5:46:43 PM6/7/22
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Bucky knew at the age of 22 he was in the Outlaw Area.

Well, one day in 1917 I was standing on the deck of my ship looking back at the wake—it was all white because of the bubbles—and I began wondering idly how many bubbles there were back there. Millions, obviously. I’d learned at school that in order to make a sphere, which is what a bubble is, you employ pi, and I’d also learned that pi is an irrational number. To how many places, I wondered, did frustrated nature factor pi? And I reached the decision right at that moment that nature didn’t use pi. I said to myself, ‘I think nature has a different system, and it must be some sort of arithmetical-geometrical coördinate system, because nature has all kinds of models.’ 


On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 4:14 PM Dick Fischbeck via groups.io <dick.fischbeck=gmai...@groups.io> wrote:
What does Bucky mean?

Since pi cannot be mathematically resolved, nature cannot use it, and you
and all of us had best stop doing so or we will sacrifice our divine gift of mind,
which deals exclusively with the truth.

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 7, 2022, 6:56:46 PM6/7/22
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Bucky gave us the sphere equation for the three systems: 2ff+2, 4ff+2 and 10ff+2. 

Paul Kranz

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Jun 7, 2022, 7:01:03 PM6/7/22
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π is the ratio of a circle's circumfrence to it's diameter. Ratios are manmade, but we get some of them from nature like φ. How could nature use any ratio? Paul sends...

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Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 7, 2022, 7:27:20 PM6/7/22
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That's a fine question, Paul. Maybe we aren't using the ratio nature is using. Bucky strongly suggested there are ratios within separate geometric systems, not better, not worse, than the xyz we are all used to. He called it the ivm system and knew the two systems translated to each other. But very few people have ever even considered that there is a second coordinate system.

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 7, 2022, 7:30:11 PM6/7/22
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Also, Paul, we know circles are polygons. They are chords instead of arcs. Nature is most efficient. idk

Gravity

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Jun 7, 2022, 7:48:35 PM6/7/22
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With Pi is cast in terms of a Taylor series, there is a likening to fractals, which are evident everywhere in nature. 


Adam Winter
The Bootstrap Music Co.


Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 7, 2022, 8:26:02 PM6/7/22
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Hi bootstrap- Please elaborate!

Gravity

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Jun 8, 2022, 1:40:48 PM6/8/22
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If you're not familiar withTaylor Series, it's worth looking at.  Otherwise, you might wonder how we could possibly know what Pi is out to many decimal places, since it would only be defined as the ratio of circumference and diameter of a circle.  From that, you would only be able to measure circles to get Pi.  Since you could only make such a measurement, confidently, to very few decimal places, you could never even claim that Pi is actually an irrational number.  

However, if you define Pi in terms of radians, then you can do a fun little trick with Taylor Series that gives you the exact value of Pi, and that is how we know what Pi is out to any number of decimal places.

Side note:  Doing the math for domes with degrees, instead of radians, is harder than learning how to use radians.

Adam Winter
The Bootstrap Music Co.

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 8, 2022, 5:08:56 PM6/8/22
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For example:

image.png

glenn pete

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Jun 9, 2022, 1:04:18 AM6/9/22
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Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 9, 2022, 12:42:47 PM6/9/22
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There are 10F^2+2 circles on this sphere.

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 9, 2022, 5:26:07 PM6/9/22
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On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 12:42 PM Dick Fischbeck via groups.io <dick.fischbeck=gmai...@groups.io> wrote:
There are 10F^2+2 circles on this sphere.

_._,_._,_

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 10, 2022, 5:31:36 PM6/10/22
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The area of this sphere is 596.

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 10, 2022, 6:48:48 PM6/10/22
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This area is the result of 20F^2 or 2(n-2)

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 5:31 PM Dick Fischbeck via groups.io <dick.fischbeck=gmai...@groups.io> wrote:
The area of this sphere is 596.

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Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 10, 2022, 7:18:44 PM6/10/22
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On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 6:48 PM Dick Fischbeck via groups.io <dick.fischbeck=gmai...@groups.io> wrote:
This area is the result of 20F^2 or 2(n-2)

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 5:31 PM Dick Fischbeck via groups.io <dick.fischbeck=gmai...@groups.io> wrote:
The area of this sphere is 596.

Ashok Mathur

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Jun 10, 2022, 9:00:27 PM6/10/22
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The pattern that is formed is seven circles in a ring whatever way you look.
Can this be a generalised tensgrity structure?
Regards
Ashok

Sent from my iPhone

On 11-Jun-2022, at 4:48 AM, Dick Fischbeck <dick.fi...@gmail.com> wrote:


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Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 11, 2022, 2:12:56 AM6/11/22
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Hi Ashok

On Sat, 11 Jun 2022, Ashok Mathur wrote:
> The pattern that is formed is seven circles in a ring whatever way you look.
> Can this be a generalised tensgrity structure?

It is the result (which is not always the same) of running

repel -N 300 | conv_hull | antiview -x f -v b -e 0.02 -B black

The model has some properties that are opposite to a tensegrity. The
variable distance force is outwards rather than inwards, and the
closer two points are the more force they exert on each other. (Also,
to note, the outer sphere is not an elastic membrane, but is a rigid,
like the struts in a tensegrity).

Coloring by vertex order shows the distribution of 5-way and 7-way
vertices.

repel -N 300 | conv_hull | off_color -v N | antiview -x f -v b -e 0.02 -B black

In the image attached they are grouped approximately at the vertices
of an icosahedron.

Adrian.
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Screenshot from 2022-06-11 07-43-31.png

Dick Fischbeck

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Jun 11, 2022, 7:43:26 AM6/11/22
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Hi Adrian

I was thinking that there is always an extra 5-way for every 7-way. Is that right?

Dick

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Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 11, 2022, 10:58:04 AM6/11/22
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Hi Dick

On Sat, 11 Jun 2022, Dick Fischbeck wrote:
> I was thinking that there is always an extra 5-way for every 7-way. Is that
> right?

For larger models that will probably tend to be the case (and also two
"extra" 5-way vertices for each quadrilateral face).

Ashok Mathur

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Jun 12, 2022, 3:56:37 AM6/12/22
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Dear Adrian
I am happy to report that after nearly two decades, I am finally able to use Antiprism software.
Previously I was never able to get it to compile in various Linux versions.
For the last two months when I had switched to Windows, security measures built by Microsoft would not allow me to download the exe file.
Today I went ahead and informed Microsoft that I trust the download site and was able to run it.
There is an option where, if you are the site owner, you have to answer a few questions, and then, it will allow all future users to download without questions.
I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I could rotate the off image of 300 spheres.
I rotated the image  till I was able to bring up a pentagon face and a 7 gon face to the front.
Images attached.
Regards

Ashok




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With Pent Face front.PNG
With 7 Face front.PNG

Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 12, 2022, 5:00:57 AM6/12/22
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Hi Ashok

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022, Ashok Mathur wrote:
> Previously I was never able to get it to compile in various Linux versions.

If you try again, please give some details and post the error message to
the Antiprism group.


> Today I went ahead and informed Microsoft that I trust the download site
> and was able to run it.
> There is an option where, if you are the site owner, you have to answer a
> few questions, and then, it will allow all future users to download without
> questions.

I don't see anything relating to trusting the download site when
installing on my copy of Windows 10, and could not find a web page where
I could provide information to Microsoft about this as the site owner. I
am registered as the site owner with the Bing webmaster tools, but
couldn't see any relevant settings there either.

If you are aware of a way I can submit the information to Microsoft
then I will do so.

Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 12, 2022, 5:17:30 AM6/12/22
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Hi Ashok

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022, Adrian Rossiter wrote:
> I don't see anything relating to trusting the download site when
> installing on my copy of Windows 10, and could not find a web page where
> I could provide information to Microsoft about this as the site owner. I
> am registered as the site owner with the Bing webmaster tools, but
> couldn't see any relevant settings there either.
>
> If you are aware of a way I can submit the information to Microsoft
> then I will do so.

It turns out that this is a feature of the Edge browser. I have now found
the form and submitted it.

Ashok Mathur

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Jun 12, 2022, 8:24:08 AM6/12/22
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Will send links.
Regards
Ashok

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12-Jun-2022, at 2:47 PM, Adrian Rossiter <adr...@antiprism.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ashok
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Ashok Mathur

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Jun 12, 2022, 9:12:14 AM6/12/22
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Dear Adrian
Screen shot attached of the site where I am taken.
Regards

Ashok



Microsoft Window.PNG

Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 12, 2022, 9:34:09 AM6/12/22
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Hi Ashok

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022, Ashok Mathur wrote:
>>> On 12-Jun-2022, at 2:47 PM, Adrian Rossiter <adr...@antiprism.com> wrote:
>>> It turns out that this is a feature of the Edge browser. I have now found
>>> the form and submitted it.
...
> Screen shot attached of the site where I am taken.

Thanks. This is the form I filled in.

Adrian Rossiter

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Jun 19, 2022, 2:10:13 PM6/19/22
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Hi Ashok

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022, Adrian Rossiter wrote:
>> If you are aware of a way I can submit the information to Microsoft
>> then I will do so.
>
> It turns out that this is a feature of the Edge browser. I have now found
> the form and submitted it.

I got an automated reply from Microsoft on 14 June saying they would
review the information I sent. I said that besides the named file I shared
other executables from the Antiprism download page with variable names
as they included a version number. The reply said:

" Thank you for contacting us about
http://www.antiprism.com/files/antiprism-0.29_w64_install.exe.

We have received the information you provided and are currently reviewing
it. If it is determined that the current designation is incorrect or no
longer accurate the warning will be removed.

We typically expect to take two business days for our investigation. During
the investigation, you may not see changes to the status of your site. If
the status of your site has not changed after two business days, please
contact us with a reply to this message. Please do not change the subject
when replying. "

I tried installing on a borrowed machine today, and both executables
downloaded on Edge without a trust warning. Also, and unexpectedly, there
was no "Unknown publisher" warning when I tried to run the executable, it
just went straight to the first install screen!

Good result! Thanks for reporting the issue.

Ashok Mathur

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Jun 19, 2022, 10:12:12 PM6/19/22
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Dear Adrian,
I am thrilled that it worked.
Regards

Ashok




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Dx G

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Jul 19, 2022, 11:34:43 PM7/19/22
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I've always wondered how the honeybee came to use the hex.  There are some very interesting mysteries out there when you look at natural patterns.   If you study plant anatomy, and learn about phyllotaxis, you will see more interesting patterns that one can describe with math, but this is probably just our way to document what we see.
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