R1200C TPS replacement

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Gerry Talbot-Evans

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May 7, 2020, 4:28:58 AM5/7/20
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Good Day to GS-911 owners,

Please would anyone who has experienced a similar situation let me know how they solved their problems, in case their solution may work for me.

I have a 2004 R1200C with Bosch Motronic engine management and I live 500km from the nearest BMW service agent. I bought the GS-911 to help me avoid unnecessary trips to the BM agent.

Although it is limited in its functionality for this bike, in this situation, it appears to have identified the source of my problem, if I can be sure I am correctly interpreting what it is telling me.

The R1200C has run well since I purchased it in 2015 with 12000km and started and ran faultlessly until about 12 months ago when I noticed the ABS warning lights failed to extinguish once the bike was travelling as it had done in the past. The ABS was still fully functional, however.

A while later, the bike started to cut out on deceleration requiring restarting to continue travelling. Not long after this, the bike became hard to start until it stopped starting at all. Up to now the battery appeared to be good and was on a trickle charger when the bike was in the garage. However, now the battery would only crank the engine for a short time before failing to do so. I changed the battery, but the new one does the same thing. I have tried starting the bike using a jump starter, which continues to crank the engine, but the engine does not start and sometimes back fires loudly.

Would this prove that the problem is not the battery, or can it still be that it needs a new good battery in the bike? I have read that these models of BM with the Motronic ECM and ABS that activates the hydraulic pumps before the bike starts are demanding on batteries. (The battery is smaller than you would expect for this duty, I think around 20Ah compared to the 30Ah battery in my 1984 K100RS).

The GS-911 is telling me that the TPS is faulty and requires replacement. I have purchased a new TPS from the BM agent, who told me he had to order it, as they never fail. I would change it to confirm whether or not it is the TPS at fault, but unlike most other BMs, the TPS on the R1200C requires removal of the whole rear end of the bike to access it in the airbox to replace it, (which supports the agent's belief that these do not fail). I do not want to embark on this to find that replacing the TPS does not rectify the problem.

I did read of a case in Queensland, Australia where a R1200C owner with a GS-911 had a similar problem, but instead of removing the rear half of the bike, he cleverly cut the side out of the airbox to access and replace the TPS and then replaced the cutout and sealed it. The bike started and ran perfectly and he set off on a 1600km trip with his brother.

Does the GS-911 TPS error message definitely identify the TPS as faulty, or can the fault be some other factor that influences the TPS performance?

Any assistance on this issue would be very welcome.

Thanks,

Gerry




George Fong

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May 7, 2020, 4:48:39 AM5/7/20
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Sounds to me like your Hall Sensor is faulty. If that's the case, it's an easy fix and not too costly. 
Check with Rick Jones at MotorradElectrik and see if he has a replacement Hall Sensor...it'll save you some Buck$. 
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George Fong

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May 7, 2020, 5:01:10 AM5/7/20
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I'm the one who suggested replacing the Hall Sensor. 
Fact. The Hall Sensor is located in a position, where the wires need to pass through the front housing and along side the alternator to connect with the rest of the ignition system. The wire insulation has been suspect in its ability to withstand the heat, and had failed 'Many' 1150 riders! 



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Gerry Talbot-Evans <ger...@outlook.com>
Date: 5/7/20 1:28 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: gs-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [GS-911] R1200C TPS replacement

Wes Down

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May 7, 2020, 5:24:50 AM5/7/20
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Hi, Have look at this video re Hall sensor problems and replacement.



Cheers 

Wes 
Devon UK

Gerry Talbot-Evans

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May 7, 2020, 5:24:51 AM5/7/20
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Thanks very much George,

I will do that. If it is that, it will be an easy fix compared to what I am looking at now. Sometimes, the quickest way to fix these faults is to change the usual suspects and it helps to have some input and advice from people who know like you.

Thanks very much,

Gerry

From: gs-...@googlegroups.com <gs-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of George Fong <allm...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 8:48 AM
To: gs-...@googlegroups.com <gs-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [GS-911] R1200C TPS replacement
 

Rod Bishop

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May 7, 2020, 6:55:59 AM5/7/20
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Gerry it does sound like the Hal sensor to me. It’s not uncommon to fail. You can also check Chromheads.org for advice. Great group for info about that model. I have the Phoenix version 2001. Good luck! 
Rod

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2020, at 04:28, Gerry Talbot-Evans <ger...@outlook.com> wrote:



nicweis...@netscape.net

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May 7, 2020, 7:19:53 PM5/7/20
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Hello Gerry,

Maybe TPS do not fail often but they do fail.  I have a 2001 R1150R (with over 156k km) and, over the years, i had both Hall effect sensor (HES) and TPS fail.  Although, the TPS did not prevent the bike from starting, it would run like crap and/or cutout on decelleration or small throttle openings.  TPS failure is easy to detect because you get an error code and you can check the throttle opening (in degres) with the GS911 real data function;  The TPS will randomly trow zeroes were some values should be sent to the Motronic for the throttle position.  If you erase your error codes and it comes back right away after moving the throttle with ignition on, you can be pretty sure that it is faulty.  If that's the case, sorry but changing your HES will not fix your TPS problem.  In my case, it was very easy to change my TPS,  i did not wait to change it so i do not know what would have happened if i would have delayed this repair.

I have never seen a bad HES generate an error code when the engine is reving (but always when stopped, this is normal) so, i think it is very hard to diagnose a faulty HES, compared to TPS.  In 2004, HES had been improved a lot over the 2001 and older version, so these do not fail as commonly as before.

 In the case of a non starting engine like yours, you can always rule out your HES by checking if you both:
1-  have a spark on cranking with the starter (make sure you know what you are doing!) and
2 -  with ignition on, by turning your engine a few revolutions by hand and earing your fuel pump come on and off.
The sparks, injectors and fuel pump are triggered by the HES, so if these work, HES works.

Also, keep in mind that, if you starter crank your engine for too long (like over a few minutes) without successfully starting, the Motronic will get into a special fail mode where the injectors will shut off.  This mode will never show on the GS911 but it will remain and prevent any starting until you remove it.  The only way i could find to remove it, is by disconnecting the battery for, at least 30 minutes... and also fixing the problem that prevented starting at the beginning.

I have also seen a few of these older 1150s not starting because the fuel lines in the fuel tank had swelled, cracked and or simply disconnected...  I dont know much about the 1200C but i hope it will help...

Good luck!

Nicolas


Gerry Talbot-Evans

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May 8, 2020, 5:34:54 AM5/8/20
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Thank you very much for all this info Nicolas,

I will definitely check out the HES first and hopefully it will be the real source of all these problems.

if not, I will relook at the TPS.

Thanks again,

Gerry

From: nicweissberger via GS-911 Field Diagnostic Tool for BMW motorcycles <gs-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 7 May 2020 11:19 PM
To: gs-...@googlegroups.com <gs-...@googlegroups.com>
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