Re: Multi-unit structures

[Scott Fraser]

Sure.  No rush.

Here are a couple of photographs of the type of structure.

The first photo shows one side of the four-unit structure, with two units visible and denoted by the change in roof covering.




The following photo shows the shared wall between units (yes it's extremely cheap construction).



This poses some interesting floodplain management questions:

• When does Substantial Improvement kick-in?
• Improvement costs to a single unit?
• If so, how does one of these four units get elevated and not the other three that aren't undergoing any improvements?
• If a Substantial Improvement determination should be made based on the structure as a whole, at some future point (we have a five-year cumulative) would one of the other units be forced to elevate because of the earlier improvements of their neighbor(s)?
• If so, would then the entire structure need to be elevated, not just the most recent one undergoing improvements?
  

Scott
Scott Fraser
FEMA Coordinator/Floodplain Administrator
305-809-3810 o.
305-923-4964 c.
sfr...@keywestcity.com

On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Duperault, Joy <Joy.Du...@em.myflorida.com> wrote:

Scott, we’ve got a national expert looking into this for you, including what FEMA has to say about it (“the final answer.”)  Can you wait for this evaluation?  Shouldn’t be more than a couple of days...

 

Joy Duperault, CFM, State Floodplain Manager

Non-disaster Community Program Manager, Mitigation Bureau

Florida Division of Emergency Management

2555 Shumard Oak Blvd., Tallahassee, Florida  32399-2100

Office (850) 922-4518

Fax (850) 413-9857

www.FloridaDisaster.org/mitigation

 

 

[Mike Gambino]

My answers would be ( and I am not an “official” source or authority on this):

 

Substantial damage or improvement begins when the STRUCTURE is damaged or improved more than 50% of the structure’s market value.  So if you have four units you would need to add all the individual values of the separately owned units, then divide by the scope of work or damage observed.  In Miami-Dade I use the county tax assessor + 20%, and this office separates structure from land value.

 

If one unit elevates that would be great for that unit, and their flood insurance may go down as well.

 

The sticky part is when you track all improvements for a period (five years for CRS) for all four units, and then do you make the entire structure elevate if the threshold is reached?  Technically I would say yes, but this might be a situation where a variance might be in order.

 

I do recall doing a few of these types of structures after Hurricane Andrew.  From what I recall if the entire structure was that badly damaged, it was deemed “unsafe”.  Again it gets sticky if only one or two owners want to do repairs and elevate, and the others do not, how do you enforce that? Can an individual unit elevate without including the foundation and tie-ins of the whole structure?  I am not a building official or structural engineer either.  What if the structure is one foot or more lower than the current BFE?  Can an individual unit replace doors, windows, and roof elevations without doing the entire structure?

 

This is why we have this chat list!

 

If you do track this way and you have a lot of these types of units some outreach to those developments also might be in order.    

 

 

 

M. Gambino, CFM

Floodplain Administrator

City of Miami Gardens

Public Works Dept.

1050 NW 163 Drive

Miami Gardens, Fl.  33169

Tel. 305.622.8039

Email: mgam...@miamigardens-fl.gov

[Bradley Vance]

 

 

This issue may not be so unique, I would suggest reviewing the ownership documents and the municpality's build-back policy(ies) thru the Building Department. What may become of intererst is to that of the "causation" (or peril) for the insurance company(ies) and their policy limits (individual and/or common elements?). Should the insurance company have known and/or anticipated such collateral damages. This situation is the same with platted lots having 5 to 8 foot side setbacks; OK for single story, but these McMansions average 40 - 60 feet in height now.

 

You can't subrogate a turnip !

 

Just another viewpoint..... Thanks. Brad

--

Bradley  S.  Vance, PE, CFM

Managing  Member

h2eaux,  LLC

phone:  239 - 297 - 5100

email: h2ea...@gmail.com

[Mike Gambino]

Sorry you lost me on that one.  It does get sticky if you have common elements that the association owns.  Not sure what a build-back policy is?

 

M. Gambino, CFM

Floodplain Administrator

City of Miami Gardens

Public Works Dept.

1050 NW 163 Drive

Miami Gardens, Fl.  33169

Tel. 305.622.8039

Email: mgam...@miamigardens-fl.gov

 

[Scott Fraser]

These aren't condos.  There's no common ownership, because the lot and structure are evenly divided between the four owners.  The property line actually slices the single multi-unit structure into a quad along the common walls, with the land adjacent to each quad part of that single unit's property.

So the FEMA condo rules don't apply.

Scott
Scott Fraser
FEMA Coordinator/Floodplain Administrator
305-809-3810 o.
305-923-4964 c.
sfr...@keywestcity.com

[Bradley Vance]

Mike,

 

Some communities will have a guideline how they will allow structures to be built back after a natural disaster. These are sometimes more flexible than the "straight" code would allow for under normal individual applications.

 

Brad

 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Mike Gambino <mgam...@miamigardens-fl.gov> wrote:

[Mike Gambino]

Cool!