Topic for Discussion

[James Kelm]

Dear FCFM Friends,

 

    I realize that everyone is busy during this time of year, but I will pose a question for discussion anyway.  LOLL  When you have a free minute, please give the question thought, and respond!  This will be a good topic for conversation, while also being valuable to those of us who are involved with ministry.  *smile*

 

1.  What was the topic of a sermon that you have heard at some point in your life, that deeply affected you or that was of value in a practical way?

 

2.  What is a subject that you would like to hear your pastor address, but as of yet has not?

 

 

Your Friend in Christ,

Pastor James Kelm

Foundational Christian Family Ministry

www.fcfministry.org

 

 

[Dave Macy Deppisch]

1. Sermon: "read the word and do it!"

 

2. Address: Lazy, carnal Christians.

 

Glad John Paul is doing well--prayers continue..

 

Your servant in Christ,

 

Pastor Dave

--
Rev. Dave (Macy) Deppisch

[James Kelm]

Dear Pastor Dave,

 

    I sympathize with your comments.  It seems as though political correctness and "feel good" messages are often embraced within many modern messages.  Certainly our Lord is worthy of our celebration, but there are responsibilities that are involved with worship as well!

 

    I personally believe that a large part of the trouble is with both the clergymen who are more interested in attracting large numbers of people rather than building true disciples, and the general public who want to be patted on the back without being required to have any actual expectations of responsibility.  Repentance was one of the central points of the early preachers of the gospel, but it has largely been ignored among many modern congregations.

 

    Thanks for your response, and I am looking forward to further discussion!

[cd5...@gmail.com]

I also think there are too many modern feel good songs and too much rock type music in the church.  There is a difference in good old gospel and music like you are at a rock concert.

 

Carla

[Dave Macy Deppisch]

There was a sacred element to the older hymns--today it's more like God is being worshipped less for His

majesty and more for His benevolence.

[Christopher & Tracey]

Dear Group: I agree with each of the comments mentioned thus far. I am sorry to say that I believe that the "Church" in America is a latter-day laodicean (lukewarm), I also believe that the Church in America is reflected by the Church at Pergamos (worldly and embraced false doctrines - apostate), and the Church at Philadelphia (warned to be faithful or lose their reward).

 

I know of many (many!) latter-day remnant believers, the Bride of Christ, who home fellowship simply because they can find no truly orthodox Church which teaches a sound and fundamental message, of which repentance is a part, and where the gifts are manifest, i.e. pray for healing of the infirmed through the laying on of hands and anointing with oil.

 

I also believe, regarding "music," that most Pastor's do not understand that "worship" is of as much importance to the Body as is the message from the pulpit. The following is a brief message from the Music Pastor at United Christian Church in Cleveland, Tennessee. "There is power in music. As a little baby, we were lulled to sleep by our mother's tender song. As toddlers, we marched "down by the station" to see all the little "pufferbellies." As teenagers we cheered for our team as the high school band played the school fight song. Sometimes, I hear a song and it drives me right back to a certain place in life instantly.

 

Music reaches down into your very soul and causes great emotion. A dirge can bring sadness. A love song can bring back fond memories. It is impossible to determine just how music affects us the way it does, but its impact on our lives and emotions cannot be denied. First Samuel 16:23 says this about music, "And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evispirit departed from him." This principle still applies today. Anointed music (key word: "anointed") in our worship services will drive away evil spirits that hinder our relationship with the Lord.

 

Look at it in this way; a farmer uses a plow to cultivate the hard ground before planting. Afterwards he comes along and plants the seed. The sunshine and the rain come down and the seed comes up to produce a harvest. Now take a deeper look, anointed music is that plow, the ground is our hearts and the Pastor or Minister comes along and plants the seed which is the Word of God. The Lord showers down His blessings and the seed comes up and produces salvation, healings and so much more than we can even ask or think.

 

Satan, the former worship leader of Heaven, knows that if he can cuase confusion in our church music departments, he's won another battle. Folks, be aware of this tactic. The music in our services is not about us or about being seen. It is about worship, it is about breaking up the hard ground of a sinner's heart so the Word can come up in our lives, and it is about ushering in the Lord's presence among us and producing suols for the Kingdom of God."

 

I believe, in essence, that Music Pastor Lowery has hit part of the current issue right on the head (so to speak). Worship is intended to minister to our souls and prepare us for the Word from the pulpit. It is worship of an almighty and holy God. IT IS NOT ENTERTAINMENT, EVER!  Over the last decade it has become common for Churches to bring in coffee carts and now, as a result, folks sit in their seats, sipping their flavor of the day coffee, or drinking soda, all in the sanctuary, and they sit passively thinking that if they hum along while drinking their drinks that they are somehow "worshipping."

 

This practice is disgusting and breaks my heart. If people only knew that this is the "Birth Pang" latter day Church, they would not be doing it. They would be on their faces, praying and expressing their love for the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. Instead, I regret to say, they are infact apostate, and when deception truly falls upon the Church only the remnant Bride of Christ, with oil in her lamps, will be left standing and will hear his voice. And God forgive the Pastors who do not know better.

 

Blessings, always, in HIS service, Rev/Chaplain Christopher Brown, MHS

[Cindy Handel]

I can't really think of a specific message which meant a lot to me.  I've heard many, many very good messages, which have touched me.

 

I would really like to hear a specific message on homosexuality.  I know my church believes it is sinful.  But, I've also heard that there are, (or at least there have been) homosexual individuals attending the church.  I wish more Bible believing and teaching churches would address this issue.

 

Like the music topic, I know we don't want to drive people away who are homosexual.  But, I don't think we should just keep silent on the issue.  I think, even people who have been Christians for many years, need to know that it is sinful and not simply a lifestyle choice, which is as acceptable as heterosexual relationships.

 

Cindy

----- Original Message -----

From: James Kelm

[James Kelm]

Dear Cindy,

 

    It is ironic that you bring up the subject of homosexuality, because I absolutely agree with you.  We are commanded to love the sinner, but so often this is understood to mean accept the sin.  I wrote a paper on homosexuality on www.fcfministry.org FCFM Christian Institute section, and I heard from several people who suggested that I was going to offend a lot of people.  It is so very sad, when scripture is determined to be too controversial, even among Christians!

 

 

Your Friend in Christ,

Pastor James Kelm

Foundational Christian Family Ministry

www.fcfministry.org

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Cindy Handel

To: fc...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 4:05 PM

Subject: Re: Topic for Discussion

[cd5...@gmail.com]

Our pastorhas spoken on homo sexuality in a couple of messages and I know our church doesn't believe in it.  It is definitely mentioned in the Bible that it is wrong.  To my knowledge our church doesn't accept them in the church but I can't be quoted because I've never asked.

 

This is one of those situations where people are trying to conform the church and the Bible to their lifestyle.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Cindy Handel

To: fc...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 2:05 PM

Subject: Re: Topic for Discussion

[Christopher & Tracey]

 

I believe that it is the Pastor or Minister's job to preach and teach the Word of God, and minister to the needs of the flock which the Lord has given them stewardship over, and whether people come or go is the responsibility of the Holy Spirit. While the Christian may witness individually, the Pastor's job is to witness (through his teachings) corporately. Our job is to only plant the seed, and the rest is up to the Holy Spirit. This is where many Church's stray, as they are willing to compromise and entertain, rather than to teach and equip the Saints to do the work of the Great Commission.  Being a "Christian" is not a passive calling. Yes, a Christian may be "saved," and sins forgiven, but ultimately at the Bema Seat of Christ they will need to give an account for their life as Believer. Christopher

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Handel" <cind...@verizon.net>
To: fc...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 3:05:42 PM
Subject: Re: Topic for Discussion

[Christopher & Tracey]

The challenge with this issue is that many Churches, including well recognized denominations, are ordaining openly homosexual Ministers, Pastor's, and Bishops, so how is a young person supposed to differentiate between the conflict involving the split between and within the Body of Christ. Our culture is changing, and homosexuality is becoming widely accepted inside and outside of the Church. Somehow we need to raise up a body of "John the Baptists," who are willing to preach the Word of God and not worry about the end result. Clearly this is different than one on one counseling which may occur, but the division between the remnant Bride and the apostate church only grows. It is Biblically Prophetic. Many of the souls which need to be saved are inside the four walls of the Church. Christopher

[James Kelm]

What ever we speak, we should speak in love.  We would all agree upon this, but I think that many misunderstand that this is addressing how we are to say something, not whether or not we should say something.  Now days many believe that if anything is said that causes another to feel uncomfortable, it is not said "in love".  The truth is however, as I see it, is that many of the things that we say "in love", causes others to feel uncomfortable, but yet we say it because it is "in love".  I instructed small children to not play in the road, and they didn't like what I said.  I instructed my guitar students to use proper fingering, and it often brought them discomfort.  Christ instructs us to be holy, which is not often the most comfortable instruction for us.  No one would say, "I didn't want to tell my child to not play in the road, because it makes him sad".  But this is exactly what many pastors are doing.  They refuse to offer true scriptural instruction, because they are afraid that it would not be loving.  How loving is it though, to allow someone to remain in their sin and therefore out of fellowship with God, just because you didn't want them to feel "uncomfortable"?  I can absolutely love, support, and nurture the person, and yet standing against their sin of homosexuality.  I do love them, and that is exactly why I do not want their sin to continue to keep them away from God's blessings!

[Dave Macy Deppisch]

Bingo (and I am not a Catholic!) Comfort doesn't mean sitting in a La-Z-Boy chair, comfort from the Comforter sometimes
moves us into a new area for our own good. Our comfort is in knowing that the God of all comfort will never leave us nor
forsake us--therefore we find comfort in the knowledge of Him who saved us.

Amen!

[Cindy Handel]

My church welcomes them to come worship with us.  But, they cannot be members and they cannot teach or hold any other leadership position in the church.

[Cindy Handel]

Chris,

 

You said:

 

"The challenge with this issue is that many Churches, including well recognized denominations, are ordaining openly homosexual Ministers, Pastor's, and Bishops, so how is a young person supposed to differentiate between the conflict involving the split between and within the Body of Christ."

 

I think part of the issue is determining what is really the body of Christ and what group is playing church.

 

There's a church, here, who made the news headlines, recently, because it has a beer named after it and endorses this beer, which is sold at a local brewery.  Now, I can't determine whether all of the people attending this church are actually saved and are Christian; or whether any of them are.  That's not up to me.  But, the Bible tells me that by their fruits we will know them.  So, I think people really need to look closely at the churches they're attending; learn what they really believe and teach, and what they should be teaching.  Then, they will have a better understanding of what a church is and what the church should be teaching.

 

I hope that makes sense.  I kind of got carried away and maybe went off on a tangent!

[James Kelm]

Hello Cindy,

 

   I agree with you whole heartedly.  I will throw another thought on the pile as well.  We often blame the pastors and the church, and they more likely than not deserve the blame.  But it is also extremely important for each Christian to read, learn, and study the bible for them selves.  So often we, and I have been as guilty of this as anyone, simply leave our knowledge of scripture up to others.  Statistics show that very few Christians actually incorporate bible study into their day-to-day lives.  This is a perfect way for us to be able to judge the quality, and accuracy of a given pastor or church, if we know for our selves what is biblical and what is not.

 

    I love these discussions, and encourage everyone to keep it up!  It is great!

[Cindy Handel]



Yes, you're exactly right.  My pastor frequently tells us that we should study the scripture he's discussing, and, if we find a problem in something he said, tell him about it.  But, if we don't study and know what The Word says, we'll never know if he's teaching us, correctly or not.

[Kimberly Sue Kelm]

Hello,

God love's the sinner but hates the sin.  I think a church that operates as you have said is following the bible.  The churches that do not operate that way, I would be very leery of..

  I would like to thank you all personally for your prayers and support for my brother in law John Paul, during this very difficult time.  We are looking at surgery being set for Monday or Tuesday, but personally I am praying and believing in a complete healing of J.P's heart so no surgery is needed.

  Please continue to pray for John Paul and the entire family. Thank you again.

  Sincerely,

Kimberly Kelm

---

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Checked by AVG.
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[Christopher & Tracey]

Dear Group: the issue of homosexuality in general and homosexuality in the Church and the Ministry specifically, are not necessarily morally nor scripturally complex issues. First I would like to comment that in groups such as this, participants are not always going to personally agree, and we do not want "group-think" or we will not have the opportunity to learn from one another. Secondly, scripture is ALWAYS the final authority. Not what we feel, or want, or desire, or what changing societal mores tell us. Yes, God love's the sinner but hates the sin, but that does not get to the heart of the question..

 

Please consider the following:

>homosexuality is unconfessed sin (it is a sin, no matter how people feel about it)

>repentance is not an option for a professing, born-again, Bible believing Christian

>being Born-Again means that you make a decision to repent and to turn away from known sin in your life

>yes, we are all still sinners, BUT the Holy Spirit who resides within us convicts us of our sin, and we continue on our quest on our knees to pray, repent,

         and prayerfully to eventually change our lives (we actively seek Christlike change)

>you can not serve two masters, you will love one but hate the other; or, you simply can not have one foot in the Church and one foot in the world

>I agree that the Church should allow a homosexual into their services, as long as they are no longer practicing homosexuals; what would your

         Church do with openly practicing fornicators, adulterers, those in openly premarital sex or known pornography; these are challenging issues

         less for the Body of believers than they are for the Pastor or Minister who represents the scriptural standards established by Christ, and

         who has a higher level of scriptural accountability for the flock which God has given him stewardship over

>clearly we all agree that God can and will change anyone; however "salvation" without change is an oxymoron

>can you ask Christ to redeem your soul when you have no intention of repenting from your known scriptural sin

>scripturally homosexuality is specifically condemned; and to ordain homosexuals into the ministry is simply contrary to Biblical truth and is

          clearly apostasy    Lev18:22 & 20:13   1Cor6:9-11

>it is clear that homosexuality is passing into mainstream secular society and in to some, if not many, Christian denominations; however what is

          no longer openly acknowledged is that God deliberately put a limit on sex; yes, a limit, and only one limit; sex is meant to be enjoyed in the

          context of marriage, not outside of marriage  Gen2:24-25   Heb13:4

>all sexual sins, such as promiscuity, adultery, homosexuality, pornography (added), or prostitution, are sin's because they do not conform to the limit

          for sex which God declared solely as a marital activity

>again, do not compromise your witness for a socially, secular, and acceptable opinion that is void of Godliness, we are all on a journey of transformation,

          to become increasingly Christlike; yet while we are on the journey we are expected to lead a Christ-centered life

>the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were first recorded in the Bible to face punishment for their sexual perversion   Genesis Chaper 19

>Paul is very specific in Rom1:26-27

>I am sorry, but it is my belief that we live in a "post-Christian" era, that we are experiencing the end of the Church age, and that the lukewarm

           Christian church around the globe is mainstreaming immorality; entire denominations are being split wide open over the issue of homosexuality

>the bottomline is that practicing homosexuality within the Church is unrepentant sin

>I would like to believe that the Christian Church would not allow an openly homosexual Pastor or Minister, any more than it would allow a Minister

           with an ongoing adulterous affair, and still retain their position within the Church

>while we are clearly called to love, as Christ would love, we must not be afraid to stand up and champion the cause of morality; we can not

           soften our beliefs concerning God's moral code; we can champion God's love toward homosexual's without condoning their behavior

 

Finally, recognize that God loves all of his creation, but He is also specific in the scripture that sin is sin. As I mentioned yesterday, I am speaking broadly to the issue which was raised regarding homosexuality in the Church, and not to the specifics of how the Church should minister one-on-one with any individual who recognizes their sins, wants to repent, and who is seeking Jesus Christ. It is my firm conviction that you can not be Both a confessing born-again Christian and an openly practicing Homosexual. That said, the Church is a lifeboat and we should be reaching out to as many people as we possible can. At this point the Church should be harvesting as many souls for Christ as possible and the doors to the Church should never be shut.

 

With love and respect in Christ, whom we serve in ALL aspects of life, Rev/Chaplain Christopher P. Brown, MHS

[Dave Macy Deppisch]

In regards to that I came across this www.killercults.com and a story from North Carolina

 

Dave

[James Kelm]

Dear FCFM Friends,

 

    It is a slippery slope, and we certainly do not want to allow our selves to focus on judging rather than upon loving mercy.  Having said this however, scripture is clear.  Jesus said, "if you love me, you will keep my words"!  There are no interpretation or qualifiers in this statement!  "If you love me", "you will keep my words"!  Certainly we all fall short, which is where the grace of God comes in.  And while all sin is sin, there are reasonable degrees of spiritual corruption.  We can not hold everyone to an expectation of perfection, or none of us would be in any church.  We have however, in my opinion, come to a point in many mainstream churches whereby in the attempt to not become overly judging, we have determined to not judge anything!  We can see from God's word, just how He expects us to demonstrate our love for Him, that being by keeping His words/commandments.  If we willingly and openly refuse to follow His "word", than regardless of what we proclaim with our mouth, we have shown that our "love" for God is false.  We have become too careful to "say the right words", and we have often neglected to "do the right thing".  In my opinion the fundamental word here is repentance!  We are told to forgive those who sin against us, but the assumption is that they are truly repentant of the sin.  Even Jesus does not forgive anyone, unless they are repentant!  We say that Jesus' love is unconditional, which is absolutely true!  We should not confuse love with forgiveness however.  Jesus' forgiveness is absolutely conditional, and that condition is our repentant heart.

 

    OK...  Now I have rambled on, and it is time for you all to keep it up.  *smile*  As for me, my wife just baked a pumpkin pie, and I have my priorities in line!

 

 

Your Brother in Christ,

Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org

[Christopher & Tracey]

Dave, if I might ask, what part of the country are you in?

 

Personally, my wife and I, who are native Californian's, are recent transplants to Utah from Oregon (we made the pacific northwest and intermountain loop, as we moved from California to Washington, then Idaho, on to Oregon, and now Utah; all I am really looking for is the sun but I have not see it since we left California in the early 1980's). We might not be as cold and snowy as James and Kim, who are likely snow bound until June, but it is cold enough here to keep the snow on the ground all winter long and my Jeep frozen solid the majority of the time.

 

I pray that everyone stays safe as we begin 2011. Blessings, Christopher

[Dave Macy Deppisch]

I pastor a church in Decatur Indiana--as senior pastor when I am there, but we live just north

of Nashville, TN in the buckle of the Bible belt.

 

Today it's cloudy, tomorrow partly sunny and 65!

 

Dave

[James Kelm]

Hi...

 

    Kim and I live in Duluth Minnesota, where today it is bright and sunny, with a temperature of 76 degrees.  It is beautiful with all of the flowers in bloom, and the palm trees just starting to expand their leafs.  We plan to go to the beach this afternoon, but I have to make sure to get some more sun block.  I wish that you all could be here, to enjoy the water skiing that we have planned this weekend.

 

    Ooooops...  Maybe I drifted off after the pumpkin pie?  *smile*

 

 

Your Brother in Christ,

Pastor James Kelm
Foundational Christian Family Ministry
www.fcfministry.org

[Cindy Handel]

Well, if you can keep that dream until about April, you'll be in good shape!