Should We Pull Out The Troops
AndyP
I am from the UK and like most of you on this forum was opposed to the
War in Iraq. I too believe that the original premise for invasion was
for reasons other than seeking out WMD. However, now that we have
created the difficult situation that exists in that country is it fair
to withdraw and leave the Iraqi forces to cope with the chaos that may
ensue? It seems to me that it would be grossly unfair to just leave
them in that situation. Would welcome other views on this.
Jason
U.S. soldiers dead: 2,300 (+)
U.S. taxes: more and more being allocated to war in Iraq
Iraqi dead: tens of thousands (+)
WMD: 0
Years: 3 (+)
Bush's 'expected' troop removal date: 2009 (+)
Money spent to fight Osama (a KNOWN terrorist): Pennies relative to the
Billions upon BILLIONS upon hundreds of BILLIONS of the AMERICAN wealth
spent on fighting Iraq, not connected to terrorism.
Insurgents who are rebels who would never have even thought about
terrorists like attack had we not invaded their country: Hundreds of
Thousands (+)
Number of global protesters: More then history has ever known
Illegal spying
Torture
Propaganda and PR games
Cultural ignorants towards Islam and other cultures fostered.
Forced Americanization
Forced westernization
Massive world CONTROL deemed as the method to end terrorism.
Nations being fought rather then attempting to fight terorist
organizations directly.
No justified reason to attack Iraq.
A president and an administration who HAPPEN to be connected directly
and 'indirectly' to the oil company which is making all the wealth on
Iraqi oil.
A president and an administration who happened to get filthy rich
through Bush's tax cuts early on.
etc. etc. etc.
Do the math, what do you get?
Jason Harter
American engineering and construction company, a private military contractor
and a subsidiary of Halliburton. . . . The legacy of Brown and Root, has
had many contracts with the U.S. military during the 2003 invasion of Iraq,
as well as during World War II and the Vietnam War. KBR is the largest
non-union construction company in the United States. ...
Activities in Afghanistan
KBR was awarded a $100 million contract in 2002 to build a new U.S. embassy
in Kabul, Afghanistan, from the State Department.
KBR has also been awarded 15 LOGCAP task orders worth more than $216 million
for work under "Operation Enduring Freedom," the military name for
operations in Afghanistan. These include establishing base camps at Kandahar
and Bagram Air Force Base and training foreign troops from the Republic of
Georgia.
Activities in Iraq
The United States army hired Kellogg, Brown and Root to provide housing for
approximately 100,000 soldiers in Iraq in a contract worth $200 million,
based on a long-term contract signed in December 2001 under the Logistics
Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP). Other LOGCAP orders have included a
pre-invasion order to repair oil facilities in Iraq; $28.2 million to build
prisoner-of-war camps; and $40.8 million to accommodate the Iraqi Survey
Group, which was deployed after the war to find hidden weapons of mass
destruction." (wikipedia)
According to CNN.com, KBR has a revenue of 15.4 billion from the operations
in Iraq. Evidence for total revenue for Halliburton itself is covered with
deceit and mystery.
Cheney has 433,333 unexercised stocks in it. Due to all the political
pressure, he claims to be donating his shares to charity. Needless to say,
he will get a huge tax break, and still get extremely wealthy off of these
shares. Furthmore, Bush and his administration are not financial morons.
They knew of Cheney and KBR before the war, and Bush in particular pressed
extremely hard to start this war in an aggressive pre-emtive strike. He
holds the responsibility for the war, as he said in one of his speeches
(whitehouse.gov). Furthmore, in two speeches before 9/11 (Jan. and Feb.
2001) he was pre-developing sentiments for the war by negatively portraying
the concept of fighting for freedom, against Saddam, against WMD, and
against terroism. All in the same speeches, way before 9/11 and way before
there was any apparent evidence for Iraq having WMD or connected in any
substantial way to terrorism.
If there is civil war, KBR profits off of it through their rebuilding
efforts.
I think this is very important to look into. It is very scary, but I think
that this ought to be addressed when considering the controversies about the
war. I would say a massive investigation of Bush is warranted. Was it
really oil or rebuilding? Was it both? What type of history does
Halliburton have with Bush or with the current administration? Are there
any possible under the table agreements, maybe campagn funding and support
for particular parties? etc etc.
View the words of an Iraqi woman, code named 'Baghdad is burning' - rights
sold to an English publishing company and identified by them for personal
protection - tells of her experiences in Iraq and is up for the most
valuable non-fiction Samuel Johnson award. She describes the situation
there. Furthermore, she describes the American soldiers as being
uninterested in the civil issues, but more concerned about massive military
construction and massive military action. And how the Iraqi security forces
itself has insurgents in it. Do not take my word for it, check it out
yourselves: www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com". We do not only need her
words. Our defense secretary even said that we were not interested in
resolving civil disorder but wish to leave that to the Iraqis... Yet, at
the same time, according to 'Baghdad is burning' they are not even suppose
to open the door if Iraqi security forces are knocking without there being
any coalition forces.
'Baghdad is burning' makes a strong and logical point when she writes that
those who are trying to start a civil war are likely those who are at the
greatest advantage from a civil war.
Halliburton will profit from a civil war far more then any terrorist
organization ever could hope to... It is scary, but possible.
ASU state press, page 3
"The average insurgency attacks in 2003 steadily rose from an average of 5 a
day to to 37 a day.
The average then declined to about 20 per day during the first part of 2004,
but the mid-2004 saw a steep rise to an average of 50 attacks per day.
The average from late 2004 to mid-2005 varied extremely and with great
shifts from an average of 40 to 80 attacks per day.
The last part of 2005 never averaged less then 75 attacks per day, and even
rose as high as 100 for awhile, now going down to a current average of 78
per day.
U.S. troop statistics:
Killed:
First Year: 605
Second Year: 929
Third Year: 775
Wounded:
First year: 3071
Second year 8610
Third Year: 4972
Non-U.S. Coalition killed: a little over 200
Multiople fatality bombing:
May 2003-March 2004: 76
April 2004-March 2005: 181
April 2005-March 2006 (as of March 12): 381
Quality of Life:
Iraqi Civilians Killed:
Not including crime: 17,000-29,900
Including crime: 40,300-81,700
Oil in millions per barrels per day:
Pre-war: 2.5, export 1.7-2.5
March 2006: 2.0, export 1.5
Electricity, hours per day on in Baghdad:
Pre-war: 16-24
March 2006: 8"
Furthrmore, Bush has conducted illegal spying when there is a special
judical branch right in the white house set up for war time spying. Despite
them giving Bush permission to use there system, BUsh bypassed it and used
his own means. Does he have too much power, or what?
no WMD
Many many deaths, both U.S. and Iraqi
more and more tax money going for this war
Hardly any effort to fight terrorism directly, but rather fighting nations
(how much did we spend and how much effort did we use against Bid Laden and
Afganistan as opposed to Saddam and Iraq? Which was more connected to
terrorism and 9/11?)
ANY MANY MORE factors I could go on about.
What can we do?
A) inform society
B) set up flyers to inform them
C) protest the war with all our ability
D) set up group efforts and petitions
E) Bombard congress and our representations so we can get the recognition we
need. - bombard comm...@whitehouse.gov, vice_pr...@whitehouse.gov too
and also ask the white house forum on whitehouse.gov
And many more ways to deal with this situation.
It is time we do something
To conclude, a little Latin:
Qui labores, pericula, dubias atque asperas res facile toleraverant, eis
otium, divitiae, optanda alias, oneri miseriaeque fuere. Igiture primo
pecuniae, deinde imperi cupido crevi; ea quasi materies omnium malorum
fuere. Namque avaritia fidem, probitatem ceterasque artis bonas subvortit;
pro his superbiam, crudelitatem, deos neglegere, omnia venalia habere
edocuit. Ambito multos mortalis falsos fieri subegit, aliud clausum in
pectore aliud in lingua promptum habere, amicitias inimicitiasque non ex re
sed ex commodo aestumare magisque voltum quam ingenium bonum habere. Haec
primo paulatim crescere, interdum vindicari; post, ubi contagio quasi
pestilentia invasit, civitas immultata, imperium ex iustissumo atque optumo
crudele intolerandumque factum. Sallust 'War with Catiline', X.2-6.
English:
Those who had found it easy to bear hardship and dangers, anxiety and
adversity, found leisure and wealth, desirable under other circumstances, a
burden and a curse. Hence the lust for money first, then for power, grew
upon them; these were, I may say, he root of all evils. For avarice
destroyed honour, integrity, and all other noble qualities; taught in their
place insolence, cruelty, to neglect the gods, to set a price on everything.
Ambition drove many men to become false; to have one thought locked in the
breast, another ready on the tongue; to value friendships and enemities not
on their merits but by the standard of selfinterest, and to show a good
front rather than a good heart. At first these vices grew slowly, from time
to time they were punished; finally, when the disease had spread like a
deadly plague, the state was changed and a government second to none in
equity and excellence became cruel and intolerable.
Indeed, that Rome is much like America today. Humanity does not change
much.
Best regards,
Jason Harter
>From: "Jason" <jlha...@hotmail.com>
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Jason Harter
There is DO IT RIGHT!!! And slowly withdraw, under the condition that these
five categories are fullfilled. If none of these categories are fullfilled,
in the long run it would be better to withdraw. The acts are simply wrong
and to keep troops there and continually do what we are doing would only be
devistating in regards towards future political agendas (getting away with
it again and again), bias cultural dominance, bias westernism, and simply
unethical.
In other words, What we need to fight for:
1) Impeachment of Bush;
2) Massive investigation of Bush and his administration;
3) Removal of Halliburton and any of it's affiliated branches from Iraq;
4) Removal of any multi-nationalistic or American oil companies or
rebuilding companies in Iraq;
5) Placement of Iraqi oil companies and Iraqi rebuilding companies in Iraq
- so that it is not the wealthy elite of Americans profiting, but rather the
Iraqi people;
The Iraqi people are just as capable and just as human as we are. Give them
the resources, do not take their resources into our hands, and they can
accomplish their goals; but if we keep treating them as a foster child which
we feel that our wealthy elite ought to profit off of, they will never be
established and civil disorder will remain strong.
Let us not be intollerable, cruel, or imperalistic. Give them the power and
resources.
When this is complete, then I will not advocate withdrawl. But until these
five criteria are met, it would be better and more ethical to withdraw. And
if these are not met, shame to the American people and to our government.
May we reap the lies and mess we have sowed. I love America, but forget the
people who are running it. Things need to change, or I will relinquish my
citizenship. We cannot let our government treat us as if we were mere pawns
to be fooled and pushed around to whatever they think. We cannot let the
Iraqi people be pushed around as if America was god on earth.
Thus, either meet those top five or it would be better to withdraw.
Best regards,
Jason Harter
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Jason Harter
Jason Harter
There is DO IT RIGHT!!! And slowly withdraw, under the condition that these
five categories are fullfilled. If none of these categories are fullfilled,
in the long run it would be better to withdraw. The acts are simply wrong
and to keep troops there and continually do what we are doing would only be
devistating in regards towards future political agendas (getting away with
it again and again), bias cultural dominance, bias westernism, and simply
unethical.
In other words, What we need to fight for:
1) Impeachment of Bush;
2) Massive investigation of Bush and his administration;
3) Removal of Halliburton and any of it's affiliated branches from Iraq;
4) Removal of any AND ALL multi-nationalistic and American oil companies
and rebuilding companies in Iraq;
Best regards,
Jason Harter
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