FairVote Partnership with Internet Voting Company E1C erased since Nov 9
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Joyce McCloy
Nov 12, 2009, 12:47:27 PM11/12/09
to Election Integrity
FairVote Partnership with Internet Voting Company EveryoneCounts
erased after post to election integrity group
Internet Voting Co. Everyone Counts touts partnership with FairVote,
then webpage is scrubbed within days after made public to election
integrity activists.
EveryoneCounts, or E1C has a partnership with FairVote, a non profit
organization according to their website. It is troubling when an
election related non profit endorses an insecure voting method.
Computer scientists say that internet voting is insecure "there is
ample reason to be skeptical of internet voting proposals". Internet
security expet Avi Rubin says there is no way to secure Internet
voting. Below is a screen shot of E1C's website touting the
partnership. We obtained a screen shot via the Wayback Machine because
the page was scrubbed sometime after November 9, 2009.
Screen shot (and blog post) here
http://instantrunoff.blogspot.com/2009/11/fairvote-partnership-with-internet.html
The page, before scrubbed, said:
"Fairvote in partnership with Everyone Counts and The Center for
Voting and Democracy (Fairvote) have entered into an agreement to
promote proportional representation in the United States."
This endorsement was visible at EveryoneCounts' website as recently as
November 9, 2009.
That same day, I posted commentary about it at the Election Integrity
message board, a group that FairVote's Director, Rob Richie recently
joined. Richie defended the partnership saying that it was ok as the
internet vendor had not donated funds to FairVote.
Revising history: The Partnership magically disappears. On November
12, just three days later, the link for the page about the FairVote/
EveryoneCounts partnership is still there, but the content has been
scrubbed.
Rob Richie argues that there is nothing wrong or pernicious about
their Partnership with EveryoneCounts.
So why did E1C scrub their webpage within days after we raised the
issue on a public list serve?
At this time, election integrity activists are fighting to prevent the
internet voting. The powerful internet voting lobbyists are making
headway in Alabama, Colorado, Massachusetts, and trying for
Washington. The push is coming from: the Federal Voting Assistance
Program, pushing for internet voting for military, Everyone Counts
pushing for internet voting for all voting, and Scytl, who is hiring a
salesforce to work with state legislators.
Internet voting will undo several years of work by national and state
election integrity groups and will be far more dangerous than
paperless computerized voting ever was.
erased after post to election integrity group
Internet Voting Co. Everyone Counts touts partnership with FairVote,
then webpage is scrubbed within days after made public to election
integrity activists.
EveryoneCounts, or E1C has a partnership with FairVote, a non profit
organization according to their website. It is troubling when an
election related non profit endorses an insecure voting method.
Computer scientists say that internet voting is insecure "there is
ample reason to be skeptical of internet voting proposals". Internet
security expet Avi Rubin says there is no way to secure Internet
voting. Below is a screen shot of E1C's website touting the
partnership. We obtained a screen shot via the Wayback Machine because
the page was scrubbed sometime after November 9, 2009.
Screen shot (and blog post) here
http://instantrunoff.blogspot.com/2009/11/fairvote-partnership-with-internet.html
The page, before scrubbed, said:
"Fairvote in partnership with Everyone Counts and The Center for
Voting and Democracy (Fairvote) have entered into an agreement to
promote proportional representation in the United States."
This endorsement was visible at EveryoneCounts' website as recently as
November 9, 2009.
That same day, I posted commentary about it at the Election Integrity
message board, a group that FairVote's Director, Rob Richie recently
joined. Richie defended the partnership saying that it was ok as the
internet vendor had not donated funds to FairVote.
Revising history: The Partnership magically disappears. On November
12, just three days later, the link for the page about the FairVote/
EveryoneCounts partnership is still there, but the content has been
scrubbed.
Rob Richie argues that there is nothing wrong or pernicious about
their Partnership with EveryoneCounts.
So why did E1C scrub their webpage within days after we raised the
issue on a public list serve?
At this time, election integrity activists are fighting to prevent the
internet voting. The powerful internet voting lobbyists are making
headway in Alabama, Colorado, Massachusetts, and trying for
Washington. The push is coming from: the Federal Voting Assistance
Program, pushing for internet voting for military, Everyone Counts
pushing for internet voting for all voting, and Scytl, who is hiring a
salesforce to work with state legislators.
Internet voting will undo several years of work by national and state
election integrity groups and will be far more dangerous than
paperless computerized voting ever was.
Rob Richie
Nov 17, 2009, 11:13:35 AM11/17/09
to election Integrity
Barbara Simons suggested we ask them to take it down, as otherwise it
could lead to the mistaken impression that we endorsed its internet
voting agenda. I sent an email and they took it down. Seemed sensible to
do.
As explained in an earlier exchange, we have had no relationship with EveryoneCounts since 2005, when it administered a private association election we administered. The "promotion of proportional representation" involved having their site used for some mock elections on our website to show how ranked voting systems work. We never promoted its internet voting agenda and never took a dime from it.
Rob
As explained in an earlier exchange, we have had no relationship with EveryoneCounts since 2005, when it administered a private association election we administered. The "promotion of proportional representation" involved having their site used for some mock elections on our website to show how ranked voting systems work. We never promoted its internet voting agenda and never took a dime from it.
Rob
--
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Respect for Every Vote and Every Voice"
Rob Richie
Executive Director
FairVote
6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 610
Takoma Park, MD 20912
www.fairvote.org
r...@fairvote.org
(301) 270-4616
Please support FairVote through action and donations -- see
http://fairvote.org/donate. For federal employees, please consider
a gift to us through the Combined Federal Campaign (FairVote's
CFC number is 10132.) Thank you!
Joyce McCloy
Nov 17, 2009, 11:47:41 AM11/17/09
to Election Integrity
Rob, What about your 2006 financial statement in support of internet
voting:
"FairVote is developing the capacity to perform on-line elections – a
project that not only will greatly increase the number of people
directly experiencing better voting methods, but pay for itself."
FairVote had a "partnership" with E1C EveryoneCounts, an internet
voting vendor.
For those who missed seeing Everyone Counts' webpage touting their
partnership with FairVote, you
can see a screen shot. The page was wiped after November 9, 2009.
The page said:
"Fairvote in partnership with Everyone Counts and The Center for
Voting and Democracy (Fairvote)
have entered into an agreement to promote proportional representation
in the United States."
http://instantrunoff.blogspot.com/2009/11/fairvote-partnership-with-internet.html
And Everyone Counts, is a huge threat to our democracy, touting on
their website that they are the best solution
for administering the federal MOVE act. E1C's goal is internet voting
and email voting for military, and ultimately for all
of us. Its the camel with its nose in the tent.
http://www.everyonecounts.com/
# # # #
voting:
"FairVote is developing the capacity to perform on-line elections – a
project that not only will greatly increase the number of people
directly experiencing better voting methods, but pay for itself."
FairVote had a "partnership" with E1C EveryoneCounts, an internet
voting vendor.
For those who missed seeing Everyone Counts' webpage touting their
partnership with FairVote, you
can see a screen shot. The page was wiped after November 9, 2009.
The page said:
"Fairvote in partnership with Everyone Counts and The Center for
Voting and Democracy (Fairvote)
have entered into an agreement to promote proportional representation
in the United States."
And Everyone Counts, is a huge threat to our democracy, touting on
their website that they are the best solution
for administering the federal MOVE act. E1C's goal is internet voting
and email voting for military, and ultimately for all
of us. Its the camel with its nose in the tent.
http://www.everyonecounts.com/
# # # #
Rob Richie
Nov 17, 2009, 3:40:43 PM11/17/09
to Election Integrity
Hi, Joyce,
As we've discussed, we regularly get asked by colleges and private associations that run their elections online if we have advice on how to run those elections with a ranked choice voting system. We have have been interested in developing a tool so that it can be done in a public interest way. Such places often could pay for it, though, so that's why we suggest it could pay for itself.
But to be clear, we do not support internet voting for governmental elections. We wear our advocacy on our sleeve for the big changes we'd like to seek, as detailed at www.fairvote.org
Rob
As we've discussed, we regularly get asked by colleges and private associations that run their elections online if we have advice on how to run those elections with a ranked choice voting system. We have have been interested in developing a tool so that it can be done in a public interest way. Such places often could pay for it, though, so that's why we suggest it could pay for itself.
But to be clear, we do not support internet voting for governmental elections. We wear our advocacy on our sleeve for the big changes we'd like to seek, as detailed at www.fairvote.org
Rob
--
To post, send email to Election...@googlegroups.com. Please review the "Posting Guidelines" page.
Please forward EI messages widely and invite members to join the group at http://groups.google.com/group/ElectionIntegrity/members_invite.
If you're not a member and would like to join, go to http://groups.google.com/group/ElectionIntegrity and click on the "join" link at right. For delivery and suspension options, use the "Edit my membership" link.
Nancy Tobi
Nov 18, 2009, 7:59:22 AM11/18/09
to Rob Richie, Election Integrity
Rob - thank you for the clarifications. I do think, however, that there are dangers in promoting online voting on college campuses. Specifically, the college generation (the information generation) has grown up with the internet and has as inherent a trust in it as my generation has in television and the telephone. What this means is that they do not question it, because it is simply part of the furniture, so to speak. I think it is very important that we all question current voting methods and most specifically technology-based voting.
Simply put, it is impossible - literally impossible - to observe vote counting when done with software-based technology. And unless you have observable vote counting you can not have a democratic election.
So part of the struggle today is to actually CHANGE A MINDSET, which, as we all know is very difficult to do.
We need to RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS, just as our advocacy forebears did through intentional education about things that we all just take for granted as the furniture in our lives.
In the 60's people took for granted certain social assumptions that had to be upturned in the social revolutions of the day. It was hard work and it is still ongoing.
Today, we need to overturn assumptions about technology - that it is trusted and harmless - in order to recover democracy.
Promoting and encouraging the use of online voting on the college campuses is counter to this need.
Food for thought.
Best,
Nancy
Simply put, it is impossible - literally impossible - to observe vote counting when done with software-based technology. And unless you have observable vote counting you can not have a democratic election.
So part of the struggle today is to actually CHANGE A MINDSET, which, as we all know is very difficult to do.
We need to RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS, just as our advocacy forebears did through intentional education about things that we all just take for granted as the furniture in our lives.
In the 60's people took for granted certain social assumptions that had to be upturned in the social revolutions of the day. It was hard work and it is still ongoing.
Today, we need to overturn assumptions about technology - that it is trusted and harmless - in order to recover democracy.
Promoting and encouraging the use of online voting on the college campuses is counter to this need.
Food for thought.
Best,
Nancy
Rob Richie
Nov 18, 2009, 8:34:47 AM11/18/09
to nt...@democracyfornewhampshire.com, Election Integrity
A good point, Nancy.
Note that every situation we've been engaged in was one where students already were voting online and wanted help in using a new voting method. I can see your point, but there's a lot of consciousness-raising needed on campus on this issue. I wonder if anyone has done a comprehensive review of how many campuses now vote online -- I suspect it's overwhelming.
Rob
Note that every situation we've been engaged in was one where students already were voting online and wanted help in using a new voting method. I can see your point, but there's a lot of consciousness-raising needed on campus on this issue. I wonder if anyone has done a comprehensive review of how many campuses now vote online -- I suspect it's overwhelming.
Rob
Nancy Tobi
Nov 18, 2009, 9:33:16 AM11/18/09
to Rob Richie, Election Integrity
I suspect you are right Rob. I suspect most campuses are online voting and those voters simply take it as a matter of course without question.
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Rob Richie <r...@fairvote.org> wrote:
A good point, Nancy.
Note that every situation we've been engaged in was one where students already were voting online and wanted help in using a new voting method. I can see your point, but there's a lot of consciousness-raising needed on campus on this issue. I wonder if anyone has done a comprehensive review of how many campuses now vote online -- I suspect it's overwhelming.
Rob
At 07:59 AM 11/18/2009, Nancy Tobi wrote:
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