Re: [DSNC] Digest for davissquarenc@googlegroups.com - 10 updates in 2 topics

[Kathy Partridge]

I'm somewhat torn about this project. I've lived here for 47 years, and it's difficult for me to imagine a 26-story building in Davis Square! Of greater concern than building height, however, is the fact that the project seems geared towards attracting a transient population, not folks who want to put down roots or spend more than a couple of years here. All of the units are extremely small, and studios and one-bedrooms constitute 85% of the total. This is what I feel will change the character of the neighborhood most negatively. 

And thinking aloud, might Copper Mill be looking to maximize profits through frequent turnovers and subsequent rent increases? 

Kathy Partridge

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Kathy Partridge

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On Sat, Jan 17, 2026 at 12:40 PM <daviss...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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• Copper Mill 40B Application Letter & meeting info - 9 Updates
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Copper Mill 40B Application Letter & meeting info

Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org>: Jan 16 03:21PM -0500 It’s useful to be mindful that The Burren won’t be “knocked down”, as it has secured a long-term lease with Copper Mill, and will have a home in the new building.   As has been reported, the owners of The Burren have legally-binding agreements with Copper Mill, and are in support of this project.   Bear in mind also that, were a project to be put forward under Somerville’s zoning, it would have 20% subsidized housing instead of this proposal’s 25%. It also would not be profit-limited like this 40B proposal is.   I’d much rather see 25% of a larger building be subsidized homes than 20% of a smaller one, or no change at all, especially since we’ll get a new home for The Burren out of the deal, plus plenty of other amenities like bigger sidewalks & so on.   -- Jeff Byrnes he/him 🌐 somervilleyimby.org 🟦 bsky.app/profile/somervilleyimby.org 📖 facebook.com/SomervilleYIMBY 🐘 better.boston/@SomervilleYIMBY 📷 instagram.com/SomervilleYIMBY 📱 704.516.4628

Jayne Goethe <jayne...@gmail.com>: Jan 16 03:49PM -0500 As the national situation continues to deteriorate, all I can think about is-*-how do we build as much housing as possible as rapidly as possible to give as many people as possible an opportunity to live in a vibrant, safe, progressive community*? I moved to Massachusetts from a "red state" in large part because I saw it as a place that embodied my values of inclusion and progress. The call for Somerville's "self-determination" sure is an interesting take in this context, as I interpret it as exclusionary to what I think a lot of people on the pro-housing side see as a giant opportunity to welcome new neighbors into our community. I'm speaking up for those who would love to live here but can't right now due to the housing crunch. The opportunity to live and work where you want to?--that's real self-determination. Jeff Byrne's point about the 40B proposal *exceeding *the required 20% affordable units is a good one--wow! This is such a positive outcome--especially since the Burren music culture can be maintained at McCarthy's and Toad during construction. How can we bring more of these opportunities to Somerville? Full disclosure: I am an architect, however I do not work in the commercial residential sphere and have no relationship to this proposed project. From my position as a design professional, however, I can assure those concerned about scale or shadows that these issues are easily remedied through solid design choices and should not be an impediment to adding this unit count over a train station in our city.   -Jayne   On Fri, Jan 16, 2026 at 3:21 PM Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org> wrote:

Elizabeth Merrick <ebm...@comcast.net>: Jan 16 04:33PM -0500 Just a general comment: I feel that sometimes this discussion takes on an all-or-nothing aspect. As if it's a 26 story tower or Somerville is just stuck with no significant new affordable housing. Personally speaking, I do not oppose new development in Davis Square. I oppose this particular project as currently proposed. There's a lot in between and I don't see why this developer's business decisions, supposed profit requirements and questionable strategy should jam us into a false choice.   I also feel this is a momentous issue for the neighborhood and the city, and deserves a full and inclusive process to reach any conclusions. City officials should ensure that this happens.   Elizabeth Merrick   Get Outlook for Android   From: daviss...@googlegroups.com <daviss...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jayne Goethe <jayne...@gmail.com>   Sent: Friday, January 16, 2026 3:49:56 PM   To: Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org>   Cc: Rachel Rosenberg <rachelro...@gmail.com>; Arundeep Singh <arunde...@gmail.com>; Davis Square Neighborhood Council <daviss...@googlegroups.com>; Callie Wiser <callie...@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: [DSNC] Copper Mill 40B Application Letter & meeting info   As the national situation continues to deteriorate, all I can think about is--how do we build as much housing as possible as rapidly as possible to give as many people as possible an opportunity to live in a vibrant, safe, progressive community? I moved to Massachusetts from a "red state" in large part because I saw it as a place that embodied my values of inclusion and progress. The call for Somerville's "self-determination" sure is an interesting take in this context, as I interpret it as exclusionary to what I think a lot of people on the pro-housing side see as a giant opportunity to welcome new neighbors into our community. I'm speaking up for those who would love to live here but can't right now due to the housing crunch. The opportunity to live and work where you want to?--that's real self-determination. Jeff Byrne's point about the 40B proposal exceeding the required 20% affordable units is a good one--wow! This is such a positive outcome--especially since the Burren music culture can be maintained at McCarthy's and Toad during construction. How can we bring more of these opportunities to Somerville? Full disclosure: I am an architect, however I do not work in the commercial residential sphere and have no relationship to this proposed project. From my position as a design professional, however, I can assure those concerned about scale or shadows that these issues are easily remedied through solid design choices and should not be an impediment to adding this unit count over a train station in our city.   -Jayne   On Fri, Jan 16, 2026 at 3:21 PM Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org> wrote:   It's useful to be mindful that The Burren won't be “knocked down”, as it has secured a long-term lease with Copper Mill, and will have a home in the new building.   As has been reported, the owners of The Burren have legally-binding agreements with Copper Mill, and are in support of this project.   Bear in mind also that, were a project to be put forward under Somerville's zoning, it would have 20% subsidized housing instead of this proposal's 25%. It also would not be profit-limited like this 40B proposal is.   I'd much rather see 25% of a larger building be subsidized homes than 20% of a smaller one, or no change at all, especially since we'll get a new home for The Burren out of the deal, plus plenty of other amenities like bigger sidewalks & so on.   --   Jeff Byrnes   he/him   🌐 somervilleyimby.org   🟦 bsky.app/profile/somervilleyimby.org   📖 facebook.com/SomervilleYIMBY   🐘 better.boston/@SomervilleYIMBY   📷 instagram.com/SomervilleYIMBY   📱 704.516.4628   On Jan 16, 2026 at 10:23 AM -0500, Rachel Rosenberg <rachelro...@gmail.com>, wrote:   Hi,   I'd like to respond to “I think the key question is this: Should Davis Square remain 1–3 storey buildings, or should it be rebuilt to satisfy today's needs?”   I think that most people here agree that Davis Square could benefit from some development to satisfy today's needs. I think that most agree Somerville needs more affordable housing. Many, if not all, agree that culture and community are also a crucial need.   I think the key question is really, then, how do we ensure that new developments serve and respect community needs, that they create the kind of Davis Square we want to have in the future.   Andrew Flynn's proposal, in my opinion, does the opposite. Remember that he disappeared from his promised community engagement for almost a year after he received pushback and then he startled us with his filing of a 40B petition during Christmas week in the midst of a mayoral transition. In this shady move, he is seeking to have the state override Somerville's own processes for self determination, a process that we would have more of a voice in. That's because Andrew Flynn's goal is to make millions from the 80% non-affordable units in this 26 story tower. He's using affordable housing as a strategy to get his way.   We are not saying no to development, to improvement, to progress, to housing. We want all of those things. But turning Davis Square into Assembly Row is not the answer.   The Burren is a one-of-a-kind institution - it's been an anchor of Davis Square for 30 years now! Does capitulating to Andrew Flynn and letting him knock down the Burren serve this community? Does displacing the culture and music that make David Square attractive in the first place serve our community? Does depriving Somerville artists of their livelihood, as the Burren is one of the few employers of local musicians left, serve our community?   We can have thoughtful development that isn't shoved down our throats, create new housing, and preserve community and culture all at the same time. We deserve it. We should demand it.   Best,   Rachel   On Thu, Jan 15, 2026 at 6:49 PM Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org> wrote:   Hi Callie, et al,   I think this is worth focusing on: “…address the need for housing AND the community's desire to maintain the unique feel of Davis Square?”   I think the key question is this:   Should Davis Square remain 1–3 storey buildings, or should it be rebuilt to satisfy today's needs?   --   Jeff Byrnes   he/him   🌐 somervilleyimby.org   🟦 bsky.app/profile/somervilleyimby.org   📖 facebook.com/SomervilleYIMBY   🐘 better.boston/@SomervilleYIMBY   📷 instagram.com/SomervilleYIMBY   📱 704.516.4628   On Jan 15, 2026 at 12:07 PM -0500, Callie Wiser <callie...@gmail.com>, wrote:   Thanks for this Arun,   I've been drafting an email in my head for a few days because I can't figure out how we are so in the weeds when there are still really big questions looming that require mayoral leadership.   To me, leadership is building the public-private-community partnerships to address the needs of the city and neighborhood.   I'm still a bit stunned that instead of leading a process that would have brought developers and community members together to build on past work to come up with solutions for the whole square, developers for this one building were required to meet a few times with community members and expected to somehow produce at the end of that some magical agreement to inform the city position? Yikes.   Here is my high-level question raised by the news of the 40b filing: If a single developer has the ability to appeal to the state to override zoning on a parcel of land, does a local government not have a similar ability to override individual land/building owners to open up a larger area to development?   Or in terms specific to the Copper Mill development, does the city not have any leverage to look at the entire triangle bound by Highland/Elm/Grove to ask how that entire area could be developed to address the need for housing AND the community's desire to maintain the unique feel of Davis Square?   Callie   From: daviss...@googlegroups.com <daviss...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Arundeep Singh <arunde...@gmail.com>   Date: Thursday, January 15, 2026 at 11:29 AM   To: Davis Square Neighborhood Council <daviss...@googlegroups.com>   Subject: Re: [DSNC] Copper Mill 40B Application Letter & meeting info   Hello Neighbors,   I agree with the email below. In the 50 odd emails on this topic, I mostly read personal opinion laced with fear and bias. Respectfully, and unfortunately, I should note that Zev too after calling Charles out for stating an opinion, goes on to state “I have no problem”, "In fact, I think….”….and so it goes….   I keep wondering how cities make these kinds of zoning decisions. Is there ever an independent urban planning professional involved to analyze all of the issues and offer an impact analysis? Is there ever an informed study by people who do this for a living, analyzing both positive and negative outcomes as some have pointed out (affordable housing, lowering of rents, infrastructure like schools, utilities, wind tunnels, light, delivery traffic etc). Maybe the same professionals are also able to offer recommended solutions which we as a collective can choose to vote on.   And while speaking about figuring out the collective good, it's worth being reminded that our broader neighborhood, the state of Massachusetts, by law does recognize abutter's rights (based on individual facts and not just distant opinion). In theory, the law seeks to protect abutters and not just leave them to 2-3 or more years of living through loss of business, noise, dust, loss of light/air etc without any remedy.   Warmly,   Arun   On Jan 12, 2026, at 6:14 PM, Zev Pogrebin <zpogre...@gmail.com> wrote:   Hi Charles,   I respect your opinion (and everyone else who agrees) that 25 stories is out of character. However, I think it needs to be said that this is an opinion and not a fact.   I do not agree. I've been to Boston where you are talking about and, assuming that the street face and retail is properly blended with the existing conditions, I have no problem with the height of the building in our local context. I have been to plenty of neighborhoods outside of the region too where 25 (even 50!) story buildings are next to 3 story buildings and it is quite pleasant. This is a very common thing that happens in places when a rapid transit link is installed. In fact, I think that the proposed building is somewhat superior to the current building, although maybe not the 100% perfect and ideal height.   Best,   Zev   -Zev Pogrebin   From: daviss...@googlegroups.com <daviss...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Charles Partridge <wood...@gmail.com>   Sent: Monday, January 12, 2026 12:04:38 PM   To: Mieke Citroen <mie...@gmail.com>   Cc: Ann Camara <somervi...@aol.com>; Denise Provost <denise....@verizon.net>; Kevin McIntosh <kevinmc...@gmail.com>; Erik Nygren <nyg...@gmail.com>; Davis Square Neighborhood Council <daviss...@googlegroups.com>   Subject: Re: [DSNC] Copper Mill 40B Application Letter & meeting info   If you want to get a true sense of what a 25 story building would look like in Davis Sq. Google 25 story buildings in Boston. I think you will see it is a little out of character for Davis Square   On Sun, Jan 11, 2026 at 10:43 PM Mieke Citroen <mie...@gmail.com> wrote:   I think it's more important to have more housing than to preserve a sightline for an event that happened in the revolutionary war.   Maybe it's time to think about the future.   --Mieke   On Sun, Jan 11, 2026, 21:19 Ann Camara <somervi...@aol.com> wrote:   Hi it Ann Camara from USNC.   Sorry you're going thru this. We went thru it in Union Square when they were designing the building at.the corner of Somerville Ave and Proapect. Developer USq. We wanted Union Square to remain Union Sq. Smaller houses, no chain stores, nothing blocking shade or sky, not more traffic, and certainly not blocking the view from the Castle where one of our first US Flags were flown down to the Harbor in Boston where our soldiers could see the British ships coming in the Revolutionary war. We went to the Historic Board, had other Architects show designs that would fit our area and help with bigger sidewalks, help limit wind that is so bad now at our green line station, and so much more.   As you know City Council grants Zoning Permits.   Take a petition out, get , I think, 50 signatures and all of us go in front off the Council and try to put a stop to this in Somerville. Or things like talking to Wilson at open hours. Push for the right issues, at least you know you did. Good luck. I'd like to be with you where ever you go, City Council…….   617-780-8767   Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS   On Sunday, January 11, 2026, 6:49 PM, Mieke Citroen <mie...@gmail.com> wrote:   It sounds like there is not a lot of common ground between those of us who want it built and those of you who don't. It's unfortunate, but often how these things end up getting stuck and neither side getting what we want.   --Mieke.   On Sun, Jan 11, 2026, 18:25 'Denise Provost' via Davis Square Neighborhood Council <daviss...@googlegroups.com> wrote:   First rate letter, Kevin   Not that I'm surprised   I love the rallying cry ending !   D   Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS   On Saturday, January 10, 2026, 8:56 PM, Kevin McIntosh <kevinmc...@gmail.com> wrote:   Dear Erik et al,   The good news is: We are not "stuck with the tower." Given Somerville's previously stated GLAM status (see Meredith's email), we are likely eligible for Safe Harbor designation. We must convince our city council to act quickly and decisively if Davis Square's destiny is to be in our hands, subject to our own thoughtful, balanced, well-conceived development plan, and not Copper Mill's, with its profit-margin imperatives and sudden 40B filing.   Forcing out-of-scale development in Somerville with a 40B is an abuse of the statute, which was surely intended to make the Newtons and Miltons do their fair share vis a vis the housing needs of Greater Boston. The densest city in Massachusetts needn't shoulder this burden, allowing a developer to serve his own needs and damaging forever the character of a beloved square. And beyond Davis, Somerville rolling over for a hostile 40B would set the worst sort of precedent, putting a giant For Sale sign in the middle of our city, declaring open season for the most unprincipled development, local zoning laws be damned.   Neighbors, there is still time to keep Davis Square development our choice and our plan, but the clock is ticking, and we must act together, with determination and urgency.   Yours,   Kevin   On Sat, Jan 10, 2026 at 10:01 AM Erik Nygren <nyg...@gmail.com> wrote:   Since it sounds like with the 40B process we may be stuck with a tower, we may need to figure out how to engage with the developer and the city to make the best of it.   My top practical concerns not already talked about a bunch here are:   1) What this means for supporting vehicular traffic and temporary. Even if there's no parking and residents aren't able to get access to parking permits (will they?) so can't own cars, what does this mean for moving trucks on September 1st, food delivery, Uber/Lyft, delivery trucks for the businesses, trash pickup, etc? What does this also mean for any future options for making Elm St be a pedestrian street during parts of the day? It will be critical to make sure this doesn't make the already bad double-parking situation worse in the square in a way that impacts pedestrian safety even more.   2) What this means for school capacity. While this is mostly studios, I'm sure that some portion of the 500 units will have people with kids needing space in our schools.

Jeff Byrnes <je...@somervilleyimby.org>: Jan 16 09:30PM -0500 Unfortunately, it is an “all or nothing” approach, because there’s no one else proposing a meaningful redevelopment of Davis Square.   It’d be different if we had multiple proposals for this stretch, but we don’t.   Jayne Goethe, I’m grateful for your perspective 🙇🏻‍♂️   Everyone: I challenge you to describe how else the stretch of parcels on Elm Street should be used, with the awareness that the current building is end-of-life.    If it’s not to be redeveloped, how do we propose to pay for it?   -- Jeff Byrnes he/him 🌐 somervilleyimby.org 🟦 bsky.app/profile/somervilleyimby.org 📖 facebook.com/SomervilleYIMBY 🐘 better.boston/@SomervilleYIMBY 📷 instagram.com/SomervilleYIMBY 📱 704.516.4628

Marcie Campbell <marciec...@mac.com>: Jan 16 11:31PM -0500 I don’t think it’s an all or nothing situation.   My question has been, why does a community have to bend to a developer’s balance sheet? They had an approval for a development and because the market changed, they are forcing this new plan to meet their balance sheet. When they talk about revitalizing a “blighted neighborhood,” they aren’t taking responsibility for their part in the blight. Both Asana and Cooper Mill are equally responsible for the challenges of Davis Square, as are the closing of a shelter in Cambridge, the budget challenges on a national level and the movement from Mass and Cass along the Red Line.   The empty storefronts and the flyered windows of the Copper Mill storefronts are an eyesore that contribute to the blighted vibe. Copper Mill might have my sympathy if they actually made an attempt to maintain the empty storefronts in the same manner as Asana, but they don’t and so I’m not convinced they have the neighborhood’s best interest at heart. How are they going to be as property managers for a 26 story tower? They don’t have my confidence. And the application to the state foments my concern.   The DSNC posts on this topic are overwhelming and trend towards shutting down anyone who questions a 26 story tower as NIMBYs. I have hesitated to participate for this reason.   In one post, someone asked for Somerville administration to support Davis Square in determining the best way to develop that center section in a way that supports density and existing residents. It is completely reasonable to ask Somerville leadership to gather constituents to come up with a plan that supports everyone. Yet Davis Square lacks city leadership or concern. The creation of the dinner groups is the first effort I’ve seen that is a step in the direction of considering the entire community, generating civil discourse and consideration and it is entirely generated by residents.   The proposal of a 26 story tower in an area zoned for 4-6 stories requires city administration, elected officials and residents to come together and yet we are all arguing in a Google group. It’s frustrating and not productive.   We all agree there is a need for more housing. We just need open and nonjudgemental conversations to generate compromise that ultimately supports more housing while simultaneously maintaining the culture of the square.   It’s not an unreasonable ask. But to get there, we need civic leadership, open minds from all sides and reasonable conversation.   It’s possible, it just requires compromise and creativity.   Best, Marcie

Colin McMillen <colin.m...@gmail.com>: Jan 17 12:31AM -0500 Just as a point of order, nobody has called anyone a NIMBY in this discussion. As fare as I can tell, the only use of the word NIMBY in all the (voluminous!) recent discussion on this list is a reference to the "anti-NIMBY provisions" of MGL Chapter 40B.   On Fri, Jan 16, 2026, at 11:31 PM, 'Marcie Campbell' via Davis Square Neighborhood Council wrote:

Colin McMillen <colin.m...@gmail.com>: Jan 17 10:03AM -0500 Yeah, my comment was only meant to apply to the current lengthy discussion about the Copper Mill building specifically. Some of these older uses pre-date my signing up for this group :)

PJ Santos <peej...@gmail.com>: Jan 17 10:59AM -0500 Hi Marcie,   Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You're right the situation isn't a pure "all or nothing", but it's pretty close to that.   At the end of the day, we can't force Copper Mill to develop the property at a loss, they can always choose not to do anything and wait until either the market or Somerville politics change to be in their favor.   Elsewhere I posted that we have 3 basic choices in front of us: 1. Support the project 2. Oppose the project 3. Conditionally support the project in exchange for community benefits   None of these options will prevent change from occurring in Davis Square. Housing prices are going to keep going up, and people are going to keep getting displaced no matter what. Building 125 affordable units provides a truly life changing benefit of keeping 125 of our neighbors (/neighboring families) here.   Stopping the tower will protect those of us living here from what will almost certainly be some really obnoxious construction.   At the same time, it does nothing to slow the trend of people preferring to visit Union Square or Boston over Davis, and locks in a few more years of blight on Elm Street as Copper Mill lets their properties sit.   Many people have posted that they don't want the character of the neighborhood to change, and I just don't think that's a choice in front of us. In my view, we made bad decisions on land use 30 years ago, and the consequence is that we now have high prices forcing out the quirky and less affluent types of people that made Davis unique. If we had a bunch of affordable 30 year old 6 story apartment buildings all over the square, we might be singing a very different tune now! Unfortunately, as the saying sort of goes "the best time to build an apartment building is 30 years ago, the second best time is now"   The arguments for the tower is that it could be a very good deal for us. 25% is a LOT of affordable housing. Revitalizing a blighted section of the neighborhood and adding 500 more households would help sustain our local businesses and make up for the drain of customers to other areas.   We also have room to make some substantial requests from Copper Mill. A summer concert series that hires the artists from the Burren to perform in 7 Hills Park would be a nice way to make up for the temporary closing of the venue. We could get funding to fix our insane traffic pattern, subsidize a social worker to be assigned full time to the square, or for cleaning and tidying up our streets.   Sorry for the very long message, but I guess my point is we can't force a builder to make exactly what we want, restore the Davis of 10-15 years ago, or even bring back the froyo stores. We can push for Davis to become a smaller, quieter community with fewer businesses and fewer non-wealthy residents. We can alternatively push for Davis to become a growing and thriving district. Saying yes or no to this proposal doesn't lock us into one destiny or the other, but it would strongly push us in one of those two directions.   Anyway, thank you for making it through my essay here, and regardless of outcome I'm very happy with how much energetic discussion we've had!   PJ   On Fri, Jan 16, 2026, 11:31 PM 'Marcie Campbell' via Davis Square

Mieke Citroen <mie...@gmail.com>: Jan 17 11:27AM -0500 My apologies for my choice of words. It's a harsh truth and I'm losing patience with being nice. I will keep working on doing better. At the same time i ask that you also do better. Have some empathy for people trying to have a life here in our Somerville. You may not use harsh words but they hurt nonetheless.   It is really hard to see friends becoming homeless and at the same time see a good solution be pushed aside over what i think of as a trifle.   --Mieke         On Thu, Jan 15, 2026, 21:01 Denise Provost <denise....@verizon.net> wrote:

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Digest for daviss...@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic

Sara Oaklander <saraoa...@gmail.com>: Jan 16 02:35PM -0500 Hey y'all. This is an incredibly robust discussion - covering a lot of ground, creating a lot of heat.   I've lost track of something I'm particularly interested in - and maybe others are as well - which is the space between today's height restrictions and a new 26 storey building. The proverbial third path. I know it was mentioned, with interest in inviting the developer to present the financial viability and housing impact of some other options. Is this something that can happen? Or maybe is happening?     -- *Sara Oaklander* *617.504.3369*

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[Mieke Citroen]

I hear your concern. You are not the first to bring this up; it has been discussed many times on this list. There are pros and cons, but there is also research people have listed about how creating small unit housing will ripple out to bigger units becoming available for larger households. Many spaces in town are split into smaller units (think 3  bedrooms in a typical condo unit). If these people could move to a studio or 1 bedroom, the condo becomes available to a family of 4. 

Maybe someone else has the email thread at hand to point at. 

Bottom line is that providing small new units will help free up bigger existing units. 

--Mieke

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[Marilyn]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Marilyn <mars...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [DSNC] Digest for daviss...@googlegroups.com - 10 updates in 2 topics
To: Mieke Citroen <mie...@gmail.com>

I am a bit skeptical of three bedroom units becoming more available for families because those living in roommate situations will prefer the expensive small studio and one bedroom apartments. The first time I heard this statement it was from Copper Mill. They said it casually and did not back it up with evidence. Is there any evidence or is it too new to know what will happen? It gets repeated a lot.

Speaking for my own preference, I would prefer to live with roommates in a triple decker with a deck and yard over a small box in a tower. There is such a long tradition of that living style I just don't see it going away. But I know others have different preferences and honestly the older I get the more surprised I am by stuff that happens! 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/davissquarenc/CAJcKn3iM7dGdeJhUAUzbg9ME86f2prF3WEkVzB1Yrf2098Sd7w%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Booth]

On 1/17/26 16:21, Marilyn wrote:
> I am a bit skeptical of three bedroom units becoming more available for
> families because those living in roommate situations will prefer the
> expensive small studio and one bedroom apartments. The first time I
> heard this statement it was from Copper Mill. They said it casually and
> did not back it up with evidence. Is there any evidence or is it too new
> to know what will happen?

It isn't exactly framed that way, but this research by Pew documents and
explains the general principle, that even adding housing that is not
affordable helps keep other housing affordable. It is a kind of domino
effect:
https://www.pew.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2025/07/31/new-housing-slows-rent-growth-most-for-older-more-affordable-units

Thanks,
David Booth

[Christopher Beland]

On Sat, 2026-01-17 at 15:41 -0500, Kathy Partridge wrote:

thinking aloud, might Copper Mill be looking to maximize profits through frequent turnovers and subsequent rent increases?

Speaking as a small landlord, frequent turnovers are not a good way to maximize profits. Having units empty while new tenants are found is a major money loser, though we use that time to do repairs.

The Copper Mill development would be an entirely new building, so every market-rate tenant that comes in will be pretty much by definition be paying the current market-clearing price. It would not be possible to then turn around and demand higher rents in a year unless the market-clearing price has gone up.

If the housing shortage gets worse and the market rate does go up, there's no need to get new tenants to maximize profits. We live in a triple-decker with our tenants, and so far everyone we've signed a lease with have been easy to get along with and respectful neighbors, as well as just being nice and friendly people. We don't want to roll the dice on new tenants, and we don't particularly want to upend the lives of our neighbors, so we don't raise the rent on people while they are living here.

A corporation that doesn't have a personal relationship with tenants, yeah, is probably going to maximize profits, as do many small landlords. Since tenants generally have one-year leases, every year there's an opportunity to reset rent at a higher rate if the market has gone up, without getting new tenants. But if they want to avoid losing money, the landlord has to be pretty darn confident they can fill the unit with someone else if the current occupants decide not to pay the higher rate.

The way to give tenants more power and prevent the market rate from going up is to allow more housing, even if that's operated by corporate profit-maximizing owners. If there are units that can accommodate new people that need to move into town, there won't be pricing-out of Copper Mill tenants. If Copper Mill tenants have the option to move to another similar building in Davis Square at a similar price, Copper Mill will have a hard time raising rents.

the project seems geared towards attracting a transient population, not folks who want to put down roots or spend more than a couple of years here. All of the units are extremely small, and studios and one-bedrooms constitute 85% of the total. This is what I feel will change the character of the neighborhood most negatively. 

A lot of people cannot afford anything bigger than a small rental studio as their first apartment, whether they intend to stay in the city for decades or not.

The first apartment my husband and I lived in on our own was a 300-something-square-foot studio. It was small, but at that point in life, we didn't have a lot of stuff and we were very happy there. It was a huge step up from living with housemates. As a warehouse worker and PhD student, we could not have afforded a giant $4000/month open concept apartment like Davis Square Lofts. After a few years, we were able to graduate to a 1-bedroom in the same city. Had there been fewer studios available, we probably would have had to settle for one in a crummier neighborhood.

Calling renters "transient" makes them sound like carpet baggers, but they are a vital part of our local economy and culture! I've personally run into shortages of workers that provide important local services, everything from nurses at Harvard Vanguard to give me allergy shots to masons to fix the foundation of my house. It would help our local quality of live if essential workers could live in a Davis Square studio and staff a local crew, even if it's only a few years. Maybe they will move up to a 1-bedroom in a few years and stay in our awesome neighborhood, but if they or their spouse gets a better job in a different city, we can recruit a replacement as long as there is available and financially feasible housing here.

Recent college graduates are a major part of our smart, nerdy, artsy local culture, and we lose a massive fraction of them every year to the housing shortage. We want the creators of the next Jim's Big Ego or xkcd to be able to get a starter apartment here, along with grads with high-tech or business expertise. We want people to be able to stay in contact with their college friends and professors who could help them found the next billion-dollar startup. Maybe they will move to Nashville or Hollywood or Silicon Valley once they hit it big, but maybe they won't.

Unlike previous centuries, workers in high-tech fields now tend to change jobs every few years. It's unreasonable to force them to commit to living in the same metro area for decades, both because it cuts them off from a huge number of job opportunities, and because it limits the possibility for enjoying life. As much as New England is home for me, it has been nice to live on the West Coast and in the Mountain West for a while, and at some point I hope to live within walking distance of a tropical beach. Just because I've only been in a given place for a few years hasn't kept me from caring about the community; I've always gotten involved in local politics and transportation and gone to community meetings. Many local problems are universal, and it's good to have neighbors with experience living in places that have solved any given problem better than we have so far.

Academics should be able to live in Davis Square for a few years while they are a visiting fellow or artist-in-residence or researching a book. High-tech workers should be able to live here for a few years so they can help invent a new drug at Moderna, get a reactor up and running at Commonwealth Fusion, design a self-driving car at a stealth startup in Central Square, or found a climate tech startup at Greentown Labs. Metering the talent stream by excluding people merely because they will then swap places with a different set of people working on the next set of projects means strangling our local economy. It also makes traffic congestion worse, as some of those people would move to the Boston area anyway, but live in suburbs from which they have to drive to work.

-B.

[Mieke Citroen]

Thank you, Chris. I had been sitting on this for a while too. 

Some people talk about small housing (studio or 1 bedroom apartments) drawing in too many transients.

 It seems like there's a big disconnect.

 Between that perspective of the world and the housing market, and the current needs of people. 

The traditional perspective is based on this nuclear family idea; mother father and 1-2 children. That that is the goal most people are working towards.  

Reality is that that is not a goal that many people, especially in newer generations, are expecting or even working towards anymore. There are many people who are choosing to live by themselves. To live in smaller spaces. Maybe with 1 other person, partner or friend. Intentionally. And more and more of us in the in-between generations and people not raised in Somerville (I'm in my mid fifties, so neither an old crusty Somervillian nor a college transient, and I've only lived here for 9 years) have tried to make it work by settling for less optional solutions. And some of those solutions cause good housing for families to be turned into less optional sorta independent housing. (I'm extremely lucky in having found an excellent alternative housing solution personally).

More and more often, people who buy big units, a condo or house, do not intend to live there permanently either. How is a young professional who "only" stays 2-4 years any different from a family living in a house for only 4 years? Are they also only transient?

We are looking for a place to put down roots, to build a life, to live here for a long time. I can never afford to own a condo in Somerville. Let alone a big house. A 1 bedroom or a studio? Maybe. 

We are not transients. Yes, we are changing the character of the square. The world does not stand still. It changes. People change. Housing needs change. We need to change with them. 

The current needs of many people are likely very different than what you assume them to be.

--Mieke 

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[Ashish Shrestha]

40B proposals are actually profit-capped at 10% per year for rentals, so this is actually an excellent way to *minimize* profiteering off housing development (in addition to the greater than otherwise required 25% Affordable Housing that this proposal includes).  Rejecting this proposal and allowing Copper Mill to go with a non-40B housing construction would mean they would not be capped in the future.

[Brendan Ritter]

Hello Kathy. 

I agree with you that the project is out of scale with the existing neighborhood.

However I take offense to the description of renters as "transient" and unconnected with the neighborhood. 

I also very much take additional offense to the characterization of renters as a negative influence on the neighborhood. 

I am a renter myself, but i have been in davis now for ten years, much longer than some owners. I would absolutely love to buy here, but simply speaking 1.5 million or more for a place is just a little high. 

Brendan

On Sat, Jan 17, 2026, 15:41 Kathy Partridge <nois...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Marilyn]

Thanks, David, but this study does not address my concern. People have stated that creating more studio and one bedrooms will actually create more family-friendly units. The new units will be rented by individuals currently living with housemates who prefer to live alone. Existing larger apartments will be freed up for families as these individuals move to the newer units in the tower.

This may be true. It may also be something Copper Mill said because it sounds good for their proposal and people are repeating it. I personally am skeptical. 

I am asking if there is evidence for the statement because I want to know. Not because I am anti-tower or anti-housemates or pro-family or old or NIMBY, etc. 😊

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[Kathy Partridge]

Let me begin by saying that I don't consider "transient" to be a pejorative term, so I'm sorry for having offended anyone. To me, it means "impermanent" and simply describes the experience of many younger people--myself included, way back when I lived in five different places in five years--starting out anywhere. Brendan and Mieke, I would not describe either of you as transient.

Nor do I consider renters to have a negative influence on the neighborhood--when we had a two-family house,  most of our tenants exactly fit the description offered by Chris: academics, scientists, creative people--a few were positively brilliant.  None, however, was engaged in the community--they were all far too busy, and no one really planned to stick around for more than a few years. We've lost track of all but one, who is now happily living in the suburbs. Chris, I hope you're right that frequent turnover will help to revitalize the neighborhood.

I agree with Marilyn who is skeptical of the idea that creating smaller units will create more family-friendly units. I think a healthy dose of skepticism about all of Copper Mill's claims is necessary to ensure that their proposed development will truly benefit the Davis Square community.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Life is a lot like jazz . . . It's best when you improvise."

           --George Gershwin

Kathy Partridge

nois...@gmail.com

[PJ Santos]

Hi Marilyn, 

It's a good question! Somerville's "Housing Needs Assessment" (file #2 in that link) is probably the best collection of data of what's going on in the city, though I don't think we specifically study if people moving into studios are coming out of family units (someone correct me if I'm wrong!) 

I think you can make the case that we have really high demand for small units from a few pieces of data in that report. We have a large and increasing number of 1-person households: 

There's also a long discussion on page 52 of the report on the demand for housing of different sizes. The discussion is pretty nuanced so I'd suggest you read it, but it does assert the point David made (small households competing for bigger units). They also discuss how we have a higher need for "family-sized" affordable units, and recommend prioritizing that in the affordable housing we create. 

There's a parallel issue, which is that our building codes make "family-sized" units very difficult to construct. Unlike in Europe, we require 2 exits from a building for fire-safety, which makes the most common style of family-size apartment building impossible to build. This is because you need a window in each bedroom, so you want buildings with lots of corners / high surface area to build 3-bedroom apartments. However, the 2-exits requirement forces you to make big rectangular buildings with a corridor, which means you get a bunch of 1-bedrooms and studios. A bunch of people are trying to fix this problem (Europe doesn't have a worse fire-safety problem than we do, modern sprinklers kinda solved this), but that limits the kinds of apartments we can make in Somerville right now. 

Kathy - I totally get you weren't trying to offend anyone, and thank you for apologizing. Just like how some people take issue with being called "NIMBYs", statements about how people are "transients" or "don't have roots" rubs me the wrong way. We have a bunch of renters who are making a huge difference in our community, and I know plenty more who would have loved to put down permanent roots but were priced out of the city. I know that wasn't your intent, but I do get a bit upset when people imply a lot of folks who I care a lot about don't have a stake in our neighborhood. Again, totally appreciate your apology and thank you for keeping our conversations healthy :)

Also, that "Housing Needs Assessment" report has some really nice data about how people move in and out of the city! We do move around a lot more than other communities in the area, though a lot of that is around the city. From personal experience, I bet a lot of that is moving from one collapsing apartment where the rent got raised to another. This also shows that even with our "transient" reputation, a lot of people either live in the same place year-to-year. 

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[Ashish Shrestha]

Kathy, I'm confused how you think people become long-term residents if not beginning by renting.  My girlfriend was an academic who moved to the area by renting an apartment in a high-rise in Kendall Square.  Meeting me, and falling in love with the city, convinced her to stay and now we own a place in Somerville.  Conversely, a friend of mine began by renting in a triple-decker and desperately wanted to stay but was priced out and moved south where there is a lower COL.  The notion that we should look down on or disregard the needs of anyone "not really planned to stick around for more than a few years" is rather confusing given (a) basically no one moves somewhere planning to stay there forever - I'm sure plenty of us have moved at least between cities in the area before settling down, and (b) is self-fulfilling because why would people choose to settle down somewhere where they will only be welcomed *after* having stayed for plenty of time.  

Even the idea that we can disregard the needs of people "not engaged in the community" is a concerning one.  Somerville is a city of tens of thousands of people - everyone is engaged in its community, even if it is not *your* community.  Grad students are a subset of our community: I've had friends who never showed up to a city hall but threw plenty of get-togethers for other fellow grad students, does that mean they are "not engaged in the community"?  I know undergrads who have done far more social work than I have, but are less politically engaged - are they "not engaged in the community"?  Immigrants are often isolated from the broader historic community but heavily engaged in their own local communities - are they "not engaged in the community"?  I don't think it's up to any of us to judge who is and is not "engaged in the community," and certainly not just because people move around.

[Lovan Chetty]

+1 to Ashish's comments. We live in one of the older houses if our part of Somerville and the previous owner was kind enough to leave a historical book for us that shows that the area that our house is now in was previously Tufts Farm. Prior to that I would assume that their might have been Native Americans in the area. Communities evolve over time and Somerville is not an exception. I did a fair bit at my kids school (ESCS) when both kids were younger. The majority of the population that sent their kids to that that school did not speak English. They also work multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Those of us that can opine in these “community” forums are fortunate enough to have the time / flexibility to do that. Counting out a significant portion of the cities population is what I think might end up being to the detriment of Somerville. We live here due to the convenience and eclectic nature Somerville. However the reality is by us making it so hard to build anything that is more than a few stories we are making our city the home of the wealthy. Is that not changing the character of city which used to be a working class city. As long as housing in Somerville is a scarcity we are going to trend towards becoming a city just for the wealthy. If we love Artbeat, Honk, the great restaurants then we need to have a city that allows the people that contribute / ork in those endeavors to live here.

Between the choice of 25-story buildings at each of the T stops that allows a wider range of the economic spectrum to live in Somerville and keeping the physical character but morphing into an exclusive neighborhood, personally, I would choose the former.

Lovan