Tom Coleman celadon glaze
C.C. Bookout
I have a book by Tom Coleman called Glazes I use. It has a section
of celadon glazes, but none is called a blue grreen. Actually looking
at it again I found one with a variation called blue/green. It is
Elaine's Celadon Base:
F-4 Soda Feldspar 43.67
Barium Carb 13.63
Whiting 4.51
Silica 31.12
EPK 2.79
Tin Ox 1.09
Zinc Ox 0.54
Fireplace ash 2.15
Ferro Frit 0.54
____
100.00
For Blue Green add:
Yellow Iron Oxide 1.6%
Chrome Ox 0.1%
Cobalt Carbonate 0,054%
He writes: This is a very clear celadon base. The best for carving.
It has a smooth and shiny surface but does not tend to shift if
overfired.. Works best on porcelain. Cone 8-10 reduction.
I hope this helps. I will add a disclaimer that I have not
personally used this formula, but his receipes from this book are
generally reliable.
C.C. Happy potting.
Rick Mahaffey
is no longer a celadon. But then I was trained as a potter not a painter.
Blue celadons have come from glazes with low iron content (Less than 1/2%
and little or no taitanum in the glaze) It also helps if the glaze does not
re-oxidize on the surface during cooling. (Most early Chinese celadons were
fired in saggars which may hinder the re-oxidation of the glaze. (Oxidized
iron is yellow the underlying celadon is blue : Yellow + blue = Green).
Your Celadon may vary,
Rick Mahaffey
hambone
Wood's work, "Chinese Glazes", the term "celadon" comes from the west
and was used to refer to high fire Chinese green glazes. In China they
are called.. green. Lord Celadon was a figure clad in Green in a
popular Western play of the day. Korea came forth with the Koryu iron
blue celadons. The ingredients are as follows: white clay (iron free),
porcelain stone (glaze stone), and calcined limestone (stone ash),
there is a trace of wood ash in the stone ash normally, but maybe the
Koreans had an other method. Tichane in "Those Celadon Blues"
identifies the best iron content for blue to be 0.8 to 1.2 % (?) ,
best with English kaolin, calcium as the major alkali, buck spar or
kona spar; phosphate, fluoride and lime giving the best opalesence.
And a very slow cool down. Whether any of this works or not, I don't
know. I got greenish blue with Rhode's #20 (85 cornwall, 15 whiting)
over Miller porcelain, wood fired, bluish grey over the B-Mix, but I
would never compare these results to jade - the glaze should be
layered like pearl and very viscous, in fact Tichane admits using
feldspar is just our way of doing it in the west. The silica content
is very high in old celadons in general. The temperature was not as
high and the firing curve slower and longer. Limestone glazes are
fairly straightfoward, and I would hesitate to call a glaze low in
lime a "celadon" if we are attempting to make a connection to the
celadons of old. But if the result are similar, "celadon" might still
be the best description given with disclaimers
H A M M Y
On Jan 15, 12:19 am, Rick Mahaffey <rickmahaf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> The way I learned it if there is any colorant other than iron in it then it
> is no longer a celadon. But then I was trained as a potter not a painter.
> Blue celadons have come from glazes with low iron content (Less than 1/2%
> and little or no taitanum in the glaze) It also helps if the glaze does not
> re-oxidize on the surface during cooling. (Most early Chinese celadons were
> fired in saggars which may hinder the re-oxidation of the glaze. (Oxidized
> iron is yellow the underlying celadon is blue : Yellow + blue = Green).
>
> Your Celadon may vary,
> Rick Mahaffey
>
Lee
>
> It's not to my way of thinking either for a few reasons. In Nigel
> Wood's work, "Chinese Glazes", the term "celadon"
Jus' call it 'Merican Celadon.
Shinos originally had no soda ash but folks call carbon trap glazes Shinos.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Rick Mahaffey
recall that the glaze was named that prior to the play and the character was
named after the glaze. I don't remember the origin of the celadon name but
I am sure that it is not the character in the play. I think the origin is
based on the name of a ruler in the orient or what we now call the middle
east.
In china it is actually called bean green glaze in some area. It matters
not where the name came from anyway. If it is the name for a green glaze
where the color comes from iron in reduction. To use the name for a glaze
colored with a mason stain then simply makes communication all the more
difficult.
Tichane discussed the minuet bubbles in the glaze as being just below the
threshold of human perception. It is those bubbles that we can sense are
there but can not perceive that gives the best Celadon glazes their mystery.
This talk was at one of the NCECAs that I attended. ( the panel fit the Ken
Stevens rule of panel discussions at NCECA: the lower the number of
speakers the better the discussion will be, with one being the optimum
number - I have found this to almost always be true.)
I know Lee says call it Merican celadon but I disagree with that just as I
disagree with the soda ash glazes being called Shino glazes. They are
something else. I would say if you use Mason stain, or chrome and cobalt to
achieve the color of a celadon glaze you have a celadon colored glaze which
is not the same thing as a celadon glaze.
I have been working in clay since I took my first class in 1969 and studying
since then. It seems these days to many "Art School" are teaching taking
the easy way to do something and not spending enough time teaching the
history and traditional ways that things have been done. I noticed this in
the '80s and '90s when I was doing the ACC craft fairs............
Rick
Lee
>
> Hammy, I have heard this about this character in a play.......
Maybe we can call it psuedo celadon. I think the main issue is
simply full disclosure.
The Japanese don't make shino today either. It's secret was
lost. Most of the modern shino looks nothing like the original.
Shino was rediscovered in both Japan and Minnesota.
rickma...@comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lee <tog...@gmail.com>
>
> On Jan 16, 2008 2:28 PM, Rick Mahaffey wrote:
> >
> > Hammy, I have heard this about this character in a play.......
>
> Maybe we can call it psuedo celadon. I think the main issue is
> simply full disclosure.
>
> The Japanese don't make shino today either. It's secret was
> lost. Most of the modern shino looks nothing like the original.
> Shino was rediscovered in both Japan and Minnesota.
>
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
> tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
> --Sen No Rikyu
> "Let t he beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
>
Hank Murrow
Lee,We have a name for glazes like a Celadon with mason stain, etc, we call it "not celadon".FYI, in the US there is a master thesis that predates the wirt shino. It is in Washington state. So you need to add Washington to you list. actually, wirt and the person in Washington did not really discover it since the original was almost all feldspar and they used more ingredients.There is a much stronger chance that Arakawa used the same ingredients as the original. Of course no one will know for sure.
Mike
I'd bet money there's just a bit of wood ash in there too. Probably 5% or less. You're right about the feldspar, the most important thing has to do with the varying non-round particle sizes obtained from using a stamp mill. 400 years ago, the river powered stamp mill (you can still see them working in Onta) and the human powered stamp mill were what everyone used. And then there's the clay, the clay, and the clay....
Mike in Taku, Japan www.karatsupots.com karatsupots.etsy.com karatsupots.blogspot.com
Hank Murrow さんは書きました:
Hank Murrow
Hey Hank,
I'd bet money there's just a bit of wood ash in there too. Probably 5% or less. You're right about the feldspar, the most important thing has to do with the varying non-round particle sizes obtained from using a stamp mill. 400 years ago, the river powered stamp mill (you can still see them working in Onta) and the human powered stamp mill were what everyone used. And then there's the clay, the clay, and the clay....
Lee
>
> Lee,
> We have a name for glazes like a Celadon with mason stain, etc, we call it
> "not celadon".
That's ugly. ;^) Like the Uncola. Unceladon?
> FYI, in the US there is a master thesis that predates the wirt shino. It is
> in Washington state. So you need to add Washington to you list. actually,
Nobody has ever heard about it. So it is irrelevant.
> wirt and the person in Washington did not really discover it since the
> original was almost all feldspar and they used more ingredients.
Actually, shino is like tenmoku: it is a glaze, a clay, a
technique and a firing process.
It is funny how every one calls any black glaze colored with
iron tenmoku. At Shimaoka's the black glaze is called kuro ame.
Ame because some ame glaze is put in it (amber colored with manganese.
> There is a much stronger chance that Arakawa used the same ingredients as
> the original. Of course no one will know for sure.
Correct, we will not know for sure. Arakawa's
shino is closer to the original than most present day shinos. Wirt's
tend to have more of the feeling of the original than what passes for
shino here today. If you look at a kiln load of original shinos,
most are non-descript gray. There was a limited area of their kilns
that could achieve fire marking and those places were chosen for tea
bowls. And that is what modern folks are primarily inspired by. Not
the commoner mukozuke dish colors and the nezumis.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Lee
>
> Hey Hank,
> I'd bet money there's just a bit of wood ash in there too. Probably 5% or
> less. You're right about the feldspar, the most important thing has to do
> with the varying non-round particle sizes obtained from using a stamp mill.
Mike, as you know, weathered feldspar is preferred.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Mike
The next best thing is stamped.
Lee
>
> Sure, if you can find it, but how many modern potters can get their hands
> on it?
I think the original "quibble" was about "authentic." Which
isn't something I am not too hung up about.
> I've got a little that I'm saving for a rainy day (and an 8 day
> firing) :-) The next best thing is stamped.
Those crushers from Colorado folks on the list did a group purchase
of do a good job. I used Craig's on Custer and granite from his
front yard. ;^) Made non/un/psudeo-koshigaraki hosome tests out if
crushed custer rocks, neph sye granuals, and Helmar's porcelain and
Craig's mid-ranged white. Can't wait to get back at it.
Working with the stuff from shigaraki, I realized I was
putting too many stones in the tests. Will look more like the
original with about 1/3rd the stones I was wedging in this summer.