Things Not Chuck, and Yet Chuck; NBC, What Fools These Mortals Be!
anon4utu anon4utu
Bill Sweatland
They had no interest in giving Chuck additional episodes. They burned off the ones they had during Christmas break.
I think that NBC is really ready to pull the trigger on marginal shows (which represents their whole schedule) faster now.
I’ve soured on television in general. The medium simply doesn’t lend itself to story telling. You have to pretend to tell a story, then reset it and tell it again.
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dude029
story more.....I can see it now, extended appearances by Brandon
Routh, Sarah loses her memory again except this time, she actually
leaves with Shaw, Sarah regains her memory, comes backs to Chuck who
accepts her with open arms because he is that big of a damn hero.
Would be better than we got no?
On May 11, 7:35 pm, "Bill Sweatland" <B...@GroupSCS.com> wrote:
> They had no interest in giving Chuck additional episodes. They burned off
> the ones they had during Christmas break.
>
> I think that NBC is really ready to pull the trigger on marginal shows
> (which represents their whole schedule) faster now.
>
> I've soured on television in general. The medium simply doesn't lend itself
> to story telling. You have to pretend to tell a story, then reset it and
> tell it again.
>
> _____
>
Ardent Aardvark
I was actually terrified tonight when Fringe seemed to teeter on the brink
of telling a "memory loss" story in its finale. The sense of imminent déjà
vu was overwhelming. But it turned out not to be the case, and what they did
instead delivered a little of what I missed most from the final Chuck
episodes:
Satisfaction.
While Fringe is not a perfect show, its creative leadership seems to
understand the importance of giving the audience hopeful and sometimes
joyous turns they can celebrate even within otherwise somber outcomes. They
also appear resolute in their efforts to keep pulling the threads of the
series story together into something resembling a coherent whole, something
that Chuck flailed at embarassingly in its final three seasons.
As time passes and I watch the efficacy (or lack thereof) with which some
long-running shows craft their endings, the sharper the impression becomes
that Chuck was hamstrung by simple ineptitude in the control room. Other
shows do better because better people are making better decisions.
Bill Sweatland
I think that about sums it up. Fedak was simply over his head. The product speaks for itself, incoherent at best.
I understand there is no way to ever know this unless someone speaks out. And the person speaking out would be committing career suicide. But I would give a lot to understand the dynamic in that writer’s room. Was Fedak the bully? Was it an Emperor’s New Clothes thing?
I was reading a twitter conversation about a week ago talking about the writer exodus in the middle of S3. The speculation was that the exodus was caused by discord in the room.
Mel (ChuckTV) was adamant. There was no discord. They all left for better opportunities. She knows this because they told her so. But come on, Mel. What would you expect them to say knowing that their words are being recorded? Would you really expect candor in that situation?
Now, perhaps there was no discord, and they all really did leave for better opportunities. But them saying it in a public interview is not evidence of that.
It’s a classic example of an advocate taking what is clearly spin and presenting it as fact.
Pike16
'supposed' better opportunity, unless he really hates his current
job( guess why, Mel ), or because he feel his chair is rocking, again
because it was uncertain, which in turn yet again hinges on Fedak's
(and Schwartz's) incompetence.
Alex
Bill Sweatland
I will say that if they left for better opportunities, they all made really bad decisions. Chuck ended up outlasting every one of them.
Pike16
self-aware fan than I ever was on CHUCK, even it its heyday), I can
say that the last season, though acted wonderfully and written(within
the given scope) fine, was still a letdown for me.
This timeline makes no sense, and it thwarts all that was done in the
seasons before it, especially making Bell the enemy(as gleefully happy
that I was to see the great acting of Leonard Nimoy again).
However you are right about the creative heads knowing when to give
their audience satisfactory moments, romantically and comically,
hopeful and suspenseful especially in contrast with the mind-boggling
scope that the show involves us in.
As for a 'coherent whole'...I personally think they pulled on too many
threads, in too many corners and risking the entire tapestry
dispersing into thin air(or soft spot if you want,lol)
but I still believe they can make it all work, they did it already
every time...till this season, anyway.
At least the season ended nicely with a possible Bishop Jr.
Alex
On May 12, 2:33 am, "Ardent Aardvark" <aardvark7...@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
Pike16
on CHUCK's own quality though,lol
Ardent Aardvark
You’re right, we’ll probably never know.
Having said that, however…
That there was no discord defies the human experience. Every creative group ever assembled is a mesh of varying personality types each carrying a payload of admirable traits and regrettable dysfunctions. And as we all know, a substantial portion of social behavior is encoded in our primate genes and therefore unavoidable.
With all due respect to Mel’s optimism, I agree with your point that it was in no one’s interest to speak candidly about internal conflicts. Still it happened—don’t forget Dan Curry’s spoilers pre-S4, where he basically said (translated from French to English by Google):
“Everyone was very happy with the departure of Scott Rosenbaum on V because it would seem it is not very nice and friends of Dan working on V say that the writers of V do not like it more because the atmosphere is too ‘stressful’.”
This strikes me as a genuine and unfiltered reveal. Even if it’s an exaggeration, there is no reason to believe that Rosenbaum was any less abrasive when working on the Chuck staff. In his defense, I feel obligated to point out that he might have come across as aggravated for the very same reasons those of us on Google Group were aggravated. Trying to convince teammates that they’re settling for crap is a sure-fire recipe for stress.
Still, as I made the case a few months ago, the writers probably left primarily due to Chuck’s near brush with death at the end of S2. Even if I’m right, I’m sure that the proportions of “I can’t stand the atmosphere”, “I’m never going to reach my goals”, “I feel unfulfilled”, “the show will probably be cancelled soon” and “there’s an opportunity with [insert show here]” was likely unique for each writer. So if Mel’s argument is that they didn’t leave solely due to discord, she’s probably more correct than not.
Ardent Aardvark
thought the early part of the season dragged a bit. I tried to qualify my
statements sufficiently so that it was understood I didn't hold up Fringe as
a paragon every show should emulate. I only meant to say that even in its
state of imperfection, the sense that the writers are furiously trying to
bring closure to the threads they've instigated is palpable. And through it
all, they've tried to find intriguing premises and situations that surpass
the clichéd stories it would be so easy for them to fall back to, albeit not
always successfully. I give them huge props for *trying*.
I really enjoyed the run up to the end, from around "Forced Perspective" or
so.
Pike16
But to tell the truth, I did(and even with this season, which is
noticeably not as great, and logically and plot-wise somewhat
deficient, I still do) consider Fringe a Paragon of a TV show,
unequivocally better than any other dramatic,action,or Sci-Fi TV
series since X-Files(Farscape and trek are different sort of sci-fi
and drama) and even though I don't like to compare the Television
medium to the cinema, as the latter offers so much less character
development and limited plots, I can still say that Fringe is just
better than any movies I have seen since the LOTR trilogy.
I completely understood your point though, I still agree that even
with the imperfection that this season is...they still fare so much
better than most others, and certainly CHUCK.
The writing,plotting, and structure and character consideration
difference is not in the same realm, not even the same sphere.
Alex
On May 12, 6:55 pm, "Ardent Aardvark" <aardvark7...@embarqmail.com>
wrote:
dude029
Pike16
I see you're a fellow fringe fan then...
anon4utu anon4utu
Could an up and coming peacekeeper pilot with a knockout body ultimately fall in love with a quirky member of a feeble species who happens to possess the secret knowledge of one of the ultimate wonders of the Universe (accidentally, because the Ancients gave it to him without his permission and even knowledge, at the time) ? Could a super spy with a knockout body ultimately fall in love with a quirky nerd civilian who possesses the secret knowledge of the entire national security apparatus of the United States (accidentally, because Bryce Larkin gave it to him without his permission and even knowledge, at the time)?
The answer is that there really was nothing that prevented Chuck from having "legs," except something that got frelled up in the writers' room and at the head vis the Producers. While certainly it could have been much better, The PKW, carried the story forward with somewhat of the same verve as before, and with some of the humor. (N.B. "Woman, you better have my dinner ready when I get home.") And, the comic/graphic novels are carrying the saga forward as well, except without quite the same level of intelligence and sardonic humor.
So, that Chuck, if handled differently could have done better, I think is a given. While it's quaint to say it was this writer or that, we all know (and have opined) as to why the show failed. It was a failure of the Producers.
Now, having said that, still, we need to say that Browder was and is a far better and more intelligent actor than Zach. Pygram gave a consistent Olivier Richard III performance as a Shakespearean villain for five years. The ensemble, including puppets, were better actors for five years. And, most importantly, the writing kept the characters consistent in all of their emotional content, including with growth, setbacks, humor, and amazing physical plot turns.
So, my dear droogies, when you are sleeping on your Chuck "emperor" beds, what do you hear? Do you hear, as Emperor Staleek might, the Chuck emperor birdies? With wormholes, taking you back to a different point in time, maybe after Ellie and Devon's wedding party dinner, you might.