Welcome to ChronosTalk
db
I've started this group as a place for folks to openly discuss anything
to do with Chronos, its policies, products, support, prices, even it
competitors. The intent is to have a place where users can interact
without fear of having their posts deleted.
Basic group protocol is required. Attack problems, not people. Shed a
little light, generate a little heat, light a little fire under their
derriere if need be. But keep it focused on the problems and not
individuals. Confront the company if need be, but not the people
(Chronos might have to learn how to keep the two separate). And don't
put down other's comments. Just share your own thoughts. Starting a new
thread is better than hijacking an existing one.
Enjoy, and hopefully everyone will learn something.
db
Rob
12/31 when the beta was released?
- Can we also get a real calendar app, instead of a half baked front
end to an Apple application that comes free with iCal?
I dare not post this "off topic" unreasonable question on the Chronos
board. I was warned yesterday that the first question was off topic
and deleted. I guess I'm on strike one or two (who can tell).
Is it so unreasonable to expect a company to deliver what they promise?
After coming in over 14+ months late on the rewrite, I guess I'm
expecting too much......
db
Hi Rob,
I'll be curious to hear if Chronos let's a link to this stay on their
forums, so if you do manage to place it there, let us know if it stays.
Actually, I hope they might include it in their "Forum Rules" so folks
will know they have a place to go when they have something to say that
isn't allowed according to their rules.
db
JR-London
I put a new post in the Calendar thread at Chronos ( Forthcoming
Calendar Questions and Thoughts ) requesting if some existing PO
features would appear when they bring out their own SOHO calendar
instead of using iCal. Adam responded to say he'd add one idea to the
wish list and "Right now the exact feature set of each calendar view
has not been set".
This is sort of good and bad news, I was expecting to be told, too late
it's nearly all done but it seems like the calendar could be some while
off. The positive side is that users still have the chance to get
feature requests in, so get in quick.
I intended my thread to offer a place to collect such requests and get
some feedback off other users who might have say a better idea to a
suggested feature ( which is the beauty of user groups ) but was told
instead if there are any other features I want to see to use a
hyperlinked Product Feedback Form.
I've said this before to Chronos ( hi, if you're reading ) but it would
make sense to put a Feature Request Section on the very first page of
the Technical Support Forum allowing other voices to contribute to the
idea stack as it builds.
Rob
I agree.
Also, how about a real date on the converter? Now 40+ days late; they
were the ones that promised 12/31.
But, I don't think they can complete the converter until the Cal app is
finished. What would they map the data to? by their own admission,
the iCal "solution" is a short term fix.
I'm almost ready to teach myself Coca a offer my services free to
Chronos to help get this done :)
Rob
db
this point, given their past delivery and their disregard for their
users.
I can only assume the reasons they don't want open discussion about
feature requests (or anything else) is because:
a) they fear what folks will say. These guys have a history of wanting
to do it their way only; and it takes them forever (sometimes never) to
internalize and make improvements that users request. And they should
have been doing this all along, so they could plan for what users want
and need, instead of reacting to it. When they released SOHO and
because they released SOHO the way they did, they had a thousand
problems hit them all at once, from an incredible list of feature
disappointments, to what should have been resolved interface issues, to
a who knows how many minor and major bugs, to thousands of tech support
requests, most all of which should have been avoided by a decent beta
testing program. What is more baffling, is they should have been able
to anticipate this would be the result of their decisions.
b) they have some worry that their competitors will steal the ideas
their users suggest. This is a typical selfish reaction, after all the
ideas belong to the users not Chronos. And all user will benefit by the
open discussion of ideas. But Chronos wants all suggestions to be
quiet, so they can claim them as their own, or at least implement them
before their competitors. We all benefit more from a level playing
field; they constantly try to tip it to their advantage, at our
expense.
All one has to do is look at almost any other forum to see the open
discussions going on. Other companies narrow the discussions to the
products on the list (so your not talking about Mail on the Calendar
forum) but that's about it. Beyond that, it's open season. Some, as JR
suggests, open up specific forums for different topics (eg feature
requests) and others just rely on threads to separate topics.
Regardless, Chronos released a huge disappointment, and a huge mess. I
suspect it is going to take them a very long time to clean it up, if
ever. And I don't see why folks wait around, or offer to help them
clean it up, when they obviously don't think they've made a mess to
begin with so they can't care about the impact it has on users, except
when it comes to their own bottom line.
Of course it is all probably working for them to some extent because
the list is full of folks who buy it without even demoing it first. I
guess that is the advantage of getting in the retail channels; selling
a bunch of stuff no one uses.
db
I had seen that posting of yours, and their response. That is mainly
what prompted me to start this group, separate from the PIMs group.
Chronos would like to keep secret ideas, concerns, etc., If they could
figure out how to do it, they'd keep the tech support discussions
private as well.
I think the users are better served if the discussions are, like the
govt. should be, wide open.
Do, let me know if a link to here shows up on their forum. I scan them
occasionally but I'm not following them closely.
emory
That goes for everyone here. Clearly there is one user that feels
singled out, but why is that?
Anyone else having difficulty with Chronos forums, or are have you been
merely quietly objecting to their rules?
elle
used the product for years and paying for it and for the upgrades i had
a relatively simple question and i called and spoke with adam and he
wanted 30 bucks or some ridiculous figure to answer the question. i
couldn't believe him. i paid the money b/c i needed the question
answered but a few months later OS X came out with iCal and address
book and i ditched organizer and i will NEVER EVER buy or recommend
anything they create. while neither product does things i was able to
do in organizer his attitude just left such a bad taster in my mouth i
don't really care. i have stopped many a person from buying his
products. adam you're a jack*ff and you're a joke. i hope you and
your company go bankrupt....just my .02
john.
Rob & Tammy Murphy
-
Where is the PO converter that was promised 12/31?
- When will we have a real calendar app?
- What ever happens with the dbs that who send in? I sent a copy in, and never heard anything back. Was it totally hosed, fine, did it help them or waster there time. Not looking for Ware & Peace, just a one line email saying "thanks for your sb that has lots of personal information in it. It really helped or wasted my time".
I am afraid to post on the boards now because I might be on strike whatever.
Additionally, I have gown weary of open ended answers like "end of first quarter".
Moreover, I have refrained from asking the obvious questions of Chronos like:
- What did you think people would do when they saw the calendar app?
- What type of testing did you do? (See below)
- Why did you release SOHO in December, with the unresolved bug problems documented on the Beta board (assuming those have not "been edited" as well) as a golden master? (see below)
- Why did you release it without telling us your plans to close for MacWorld? (see below)
- How can you release a PO/GO converter without a real calendar app to map the converted POGO activity data to?
- Is the lack of a calendar app (the state of the product speaks for itself) what is holding up the release of the converter? I'm not a software expert, but it seems to me that you can not have item 5 without item 6. If that's the case, just say so. I would raise my opinion of you to be forthcoming.
To further elaborate:
(1) if I wanted to use iCal, I would, Apple freely gives it to anyone with OS X
(2) and (3) In a prior life, a helped manage integrations for a fortune 50 company. Before we either did a cutoff over to a new product or an upgrade, there were many weeks of testing with 100s of different transactions. The idea was to see if we could break them system. IMHO, Chronos did not do this. It does not seem that their testing was adequate. However, this might have been forgivable had they released the product as a public Beta (like Daylite). Yes, I downloaded the SOHO Beta and followed the board, and it's apparent that the product "went golden" before all the bugs were addressed
(4) Couple this with closing shop for MacWorld, without announcing that they planned to do this (you do not get booths, rooms, planes, etc to a major Mac event without reservations made far in advance) less the one month after SOHO release. I for one would not have installed SOHO knowing that no one would be home for 1/3 of January in the event of problems.
Additionally, it's rather hard to test without the converter that was promised "no later than 12/31/05".
Add point one through four together and to me, IMHO, it seems that they don't care about their customers.
Some of us are trying to run businesses in the real world, and make budget decisions. Although I like Chronos and their products, this has grown very tiresome.
Again, I stress, I like their products and where it appears that this is going. But, it's really hard for me to think of Chronos as a business partner, because it feels like they care what happens to me / others when their release unfinished products as golden, close for ten days and .... forget it. When he products work, they are great and IMHO, there is nothing else like it on the market.
But, my wife is really having trouble understanding why I stay with a product that is making us miss deadlines due to crashes, bugs, or just eating data all together.
I have downloaded v 1.9 of Daylite. I will give Chronos until the end of the 30 day trial to have SOHO in finished form. And, then I have to make a decision on what software actually helps me get my work done, and what hinders me. But, without a PO converter, (which will be almost two months late when eh Daylite trail is up) and a real calendar app, the decision will not be hard to make.
Once gain, JMHO. And of course, my experience my not be that of the average user.
Best regards,
Rob
emory
What post of yours was edited?
I did a search for "last edited by" and "last edited by chronos" which
would return a match if chronos_foo edited a post.
A lot of companies could benefit from a better QA cycle for releases
and having people in the office during trade shows. I seem to recall
the good people at PocketMac being incommunicado once, but what can you
do? They were getting ready to sign a big deal with RIM, I'm sure they
were wicked busy.
For what its worth, I've used Daylite before and thought it was
amazing. I would have kept with it though I have a heavy reliance on
mobile devices that change with the winds. These days I'm doing my
project management on my mobile phone using an application called
Projekt which groks OPML. Keeping it simple. Kind of.
I'm just curious is all about the posts being edited, I didn't see any
evidence of it.
db
edited though if it doesn't show via your search, it is being done
internally. They run the board, so don't think they don't have internal
access.
Many folks have been told to cahnge their tune.
But the point here is that you can talk about anything, whether it's
against the rules or not. As they said, the board is strictly for tech
support. That leaves everything else out.
emory
I think its an awfully bold claim to say that they'd go through the
trouble of going to the database just to edit some posts. I'm not
saying they did or didn't, they dispute that it happens and a couple of
people they think it has happened.
Did you find any examples in the googlecache or WayBack Machine?
I wish they hadn't deleted posts, db -- I looked through the archives
and to be honest while you were a passionate user that kept them on
their toes, I saw no evidence of malice.
Rob & Tammy Murphy
Rob & Tammy Murphy
|
Thanks for you insights on Daylite. Seems powerful, they have frequent releases, and there boards look pretty good. Just feels like using a sledgehammer when a hammer will do. I know the wife will not be happy with it as it’s not the most user friendly. But, as this point, she just wants something that doesn't keep crashing eating data.
Well, 29 days left until I have to make a choice. Let's hope for those "numerous and frequent updates" that Chronos tells us are on the way. J |
----- Original Message ----
From: emory <emo...@gmail.com>
To: ChronosTalk <Chron...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 1:10:16 AM
Subject: Re: Welcome to ChronosTalk
db
One man's suggestion is another man's advice and another man's
complaint and another man's attack. They have to learn how to roll with
unhappy people, especially if they are going to decide to make them
unhappy.
db
Rob & Tammy Murphy wrote:
> Thanks for you insights on Daylite. Seems powerful, they have frequent releases, and there boards look pretty good. Just feels like using a sledgehammer when a hammer will do.
You know a very wise old carpenter once taught me that if you go slowly
and carefully, you can drive a lot more nails quickly and accurately
with a big hammer.
I think this might apply to both using and making software. (I'm not
really suggesting that bigger is always better).