Florida 2000 all over again?

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Jan Kok

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Jun 22, 2007, 1:25:20 AM6/22/07
to COVote...@googlegroups.com
2008 will be a very interesting year. Lots of potential for vote
splitting due to strong third party and independent candidates in the
US presidential race.

Nader may run again. See story below.

And multibillionaire New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg may also run as
an independent. See
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2007/db20070614_393071.htm

Our current Plurality voting method has two major defects:

* It can choose a "wrong winner." Plurality voting can fail to elect
the most broadly popular candidate, due to vote splitting.

* It pressures some voters (those who prefer third party or
independent candidates) to "betray" their favorite candidate and vote
for the "lesser of two evils" instead. This is a direct consequence of
the rule that voters can indicate a preference for only one candidate.

Both of those defects in Plurality voting can be eliminated with a
simple change to the rules: let voters vote for as many candidates as
they consider acceptable, and Count All the Votes. This change is
simple and safe, it can use the familiar Plurality ballot format (just
replace "vote for one" with "vote for one or more"), and it is cheap
to implement because it can use existing voting equipment and
software.

I urge my fellow voting reformers to work with me to make this change
to Colorado election rules in time for the November 2008 elections.

If we are concerned about the potential for Plurality voting to choose
a "wrong winner"...

If we want to set voters free to "vote their conscience," to vote for
their favorite candidates without having to worry that doing so could
cause their _least_ favorite candidate to win...

...then why would we NOT want to DO SOMETHING to fix the problems for
the 2008 elections?!

Cheers,
- Jan


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0607/4580.html

Nader ponders run, calls Clinton 'coward'

By: Roger Simon
Jun 21, 2007 04:52 AM EST

Ralph Nader says he is seriously considering running for president in
2008 because he foresees another Tweedledum-Tweedledee election that
offers little real choice to voters.

"You know the two parties are still converging -- they don't even
debate the military budget anymore," Nader said in a 30-minute
interview. "I really think there needs to be more competition from
outside the two parties."

Even the possible entry of New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg into the
race as an independent might not dissuade Nader.

"He is interesting (but) unpredictable," Nader said of Bloomberg. "I
really like the stand he took against smoking, but he goes along with
corporate welfare in New York and tax-funded stadiums. So he is
unfinished in that way."

Nader would have little or no chance of winning the presidency should
he run, but he doesn't need to win to affect the outcome: Many
Democrats still blame Nader for draining enough votes away from Al
Gore in Florida in 2000 to elect George W. Bush.

And while Nader, 73, realizes he might once again be accused of being
a "spoiler" candidate, he says the Democrats could win in 2008, unless
they spoil things for themselves.

"Democrats have become, over the years, very good at electing very bad
Republicans," Nader said. "Democrats always know how to implode, how
to be ambiguous, how to waver, how not to be authentic."

While Nader praised two candidates who have almost no chance of
winning their party's nomination -- Republican Ron Paul and Democrat
Mike Gravel -- he was severe in his criticism of Democratic
front-runner Hillary Clinton.

"She is a political coward," Nader said. "She goes around pandering to
powerful interest groups on the one hand and flattering general
audiences on the other. She doesn't even have the minimal political
fortitude of her husband."

Chris Lehane, who worked in Bill Clinton's White House and Gore's 2000
presidential campaign, said of a possible Nader candidacy: "His entry
into the race, even to those who voted for him in 2000, would be just
another vainglorious effort to promote himself at the expense of the
best interests of the public. Ralph Nader is unsafe in any election."

Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed," on the deficiencies of American
automobiles, catapulted him to national fame in 1965. Since then, he
has authored several more books, founded dozens of consumer-interest
organizations, run for president three times, hosted "Saturday Night
Live," appeared on "Sesame Street" and was a character on "The Simpsons."

He has, in other words, considerable name recognition and is an
experienced organizer.

And when I asked him if he saw any major candidate in any party
forestalling his own run for president in 2008, he replied, "Very
unlikely. Very unlikely. The requirement is almost logistical. It
requires tens of thousands of volunteers.

The volunteers are needed, Nader says, to gather signatures to get his
name on the ballot in the 50 states, an arduous and expensive
proposition. Nader also said he would need a "network of pro-bono
lawyers to fight for ballot access."

Nader admits that Mayor Bloomberg's wealth could make it far easier
for him to get ballot access. "A multibillionaire like Bloomberg could
immediately turn it into a three-cornered race," Nader said.

If Nader runs, he would emphasize the "ever-increasing corporate power
in our society" and "the expanding disconnect between the growth of
the economy and the distribution to people who work hard but don't get
the fruits of it."

Nader also believes the United States should withdraw from Iraq over a
six-month period, have the United Nations sponsor new elections and
leave no U.S. forces behind.

In Nader's scenario, the "bottom falls out of the insurgency, the U.S.
brings the Kurds, Shias and Sunnis together, and all you are left with
are criminal gangs, and criminal gangs can be dealt with."

When Nader ran as the Green Party candidate in 2000, he got only 2.74
percent of the popular vote. But in Florida, Nader's votes may have
been critical. Gore ended up losing the election to Bush by 537 votes
in Florida, a state where Nader got 97,448 votes. Many believe that
had Nader not been on the ballot, Gore would have gotten thousands of
those votes and become president.

Nader is unrepentant, though he says people still stop him on the
street to berate him about it.

When they do, Nader tells them: "Why don't you blame the thieves? Why
don't you blame Tallahassee and the Supreme Court? Bush's people stole
the election!"

Nader calls the attacks on him "political bigotry."

"What was our crime? We used our constitutional rights to run," he
said. "We had proposals that if Gore had picked up on, he would have
landslided Bush."

Among the proposals, Nader said, was a "living wage, cracking down on
corporate crime against consumers and pensions, not to mention an
authentic health insurance agenda."

Nader says, however, that he and Gore have patched things up.

"Yeah, he is very friendly," Nader said. "You wouldn't believe what he
wrote when he autographed his book ('An Inconvenient Truth') to me
when I stood in line at the bookstore. It was like, 'To my good
friend, with great respect.'"

Nader says that if they don't implode, the Democrats are very likely
to win the presidency and retain control of Congress in 2008.

So why would he run at all?

"What third parties can do is bring young people in, set standards on
how to run a presidential election and keep the progressive agenda in
front of the people," he said. "And maybe tweak a candidate here and
there in the major parties."

Michael Ossipoff

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Jun 27, 2007, 2:56:56 PM6/27/07
to COVote...@googlegroups.com
From an article quoted in a posting here:
 
Nader also believes the United States should withdraw from Iraq over a
six-month period
 
I comment:
 
Among presidential candidates, there are three Democrats and a Republican who advocate immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Staying in Iraq another 6 months will kill a lot more people.
 
If Nader wants to stay in Iraq for another six months, he doesn't deserve a vote.
 
The Nader quote continues:
 
, have the United Nations sponsor new elections and
leave no U.S. forces behind.

I comment:
 
Would the countries that had participated in the invasion &/or occupation be participating in this sponsorship of Iraq elections? Do the Iraqis want us to sponsor their elections?
 
What will happen after we withdraw? Fighting? Quite possibly. We took away their government, replacing it with a regime that wouldn't survive one day without our troops to protect it from the actual Iraqis.
 
When a region has no government, fighting is often part of the path to unification and eventual democracy. Garibaldi didn't unify Italy without fighting. Let's not pretend that we have the role of preventing fighting thoughout the world.
 
The Nader quote continues:
 
In Nader's scenario, the "bottom falls out of the insurgency..."
 
I comment:
 
What? The insurgency is against the occupation. When there's no occupation, there will be no insurgency. I guess one could say that, when the British relinquished the American colonies, the bottom fell out of the American Revolution.  :-)
 
Someone should post, here,  Nader's own words to the effect that he wants another half year in Iraq. But, if there's any truth to that quote, Nader doesn't deserve a vote.
 
Mike Ossipoff
 
 
 


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