[C320-list] Jib size

[Tim via C320-list]

Hello All - 
I'm in the process of purchasing new sails for my boat. Originally she had a 135 and during my ownership I used 150, 155 and 160 jibs as I was racing on a regular basis. They performed well in light wind and were still manageable in strong winds. I'm racing less but it never gets out of your blood so I'm feeling the 140 that the sailmaker is suggesting is a bit small. 
What experiences have you had and any suggestions??
Thx
TimCalypso #603 

[ARTUR PIOTROWSKI via C320-list]

Great question, can't wait to hear from other users. Previous owner of my my C320 replaced the original 135 with 110. Great sail (Precision Sails), but it really feels undersized. Considering a purchase of another genoa (135-150) for light winds and keep 110 for heavy weather. Thanks.

Art Piotrowski #330

[Dave Hupe via C320-list]

My 150 "bit the dust" so I was faced at the end of my last season with needing a new genoa.  Since I handle all of our  sailing duties and the Admiral doesn’t like to heel, I elected to get a 135.  I expect to reef less but still have sufficient power to cruise nicely.
Dave Hupe 
1994 C320 #32
 Holland,  MI 

[Jack Brennan via C320-list]

I sail in light-air Florida, and my 130 is just fine.

The main advantage of a smaller jib is the shape when you reef it on roller furling. With a 130, you can roll it to a 90 or 100 and still maintain some shape for pointing. With a 150, you might start losing shape at 120.

I got this advice many years ago from a lifelong bluewater sailor, and it seems to hold up.

I think maintaining a clean bottom and paying attention to how you set your sails is probably just as important as sail size.

Jack Brennan
Sonas, 1998 Catalina 320
Tierra Verde, Fl.


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From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> on behalf of Dave Hupe via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com>
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:07:37 AM
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Cc: Dave Hupe <hoop...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Jib size

[Dean Vermeire via C320-list]

On our 320 (#847), we had a furling 150 for our lake in Kansas. We often get winds in the 15-25 range. Just like Jack said, the 150 didn't shape well when rolled in to about a 110 or less.

Three years ago, I moved up to a C-355 on the same lake. We have a furling 135 on it, along with a furling main. The 135 is plenty of sail for us and shapes well, whether furled or unfurled. For light air, I added an asymmetrical chute, although I don't often use it.

Dean Vermeire

[Greg Arnold via C320-list]

For what it is worth:

In the book "The World's Best Sailboats" by Ferenc Mate, sailmaker Ted
Hood says (pages 199-200):  "I'm against a cruising boat having any kind
of genoa, any overlay.  Well maybe a couple feet but that is all. . . .
The only reason big genoas are used is that the rules don't charge you
for it. . . .   If you had to pay for the overlap, you'd never see a
genoa on a racing boat.  The little bit of power you gain when you go
from a 110 to a 150 genoa you can parallel by adding two feet to the
height of your mast."

In fact, most modern sailboat designs have gone to non-overlapping
sails.  Really easy to deal with, especially when tacking.  Often, a
genoa is not even a possibility, because the shrouds are mounted at the
toerail.

When I got a new jib, I went from a 150 to a 125.  When going to
weather, I can trim it much more tightly before it hits the spreaders
and shrouds.  As well as I can tell, the boat is not any slower in light
wind.

The ideal jib may be 105 to 110, but, as Hood notes, at some point you
need to increase the height of the mast to make up for lost sail area. 
Unfortunately, Catalina did not offer a tall mast option on the 320.

Greg Arnold
2005 C320 #1054
Channel Islands Harbor, SoCal

[Sara Schroeder via C320-list]

In 2019 I got tired of rounding up with my 155 so I put it in the garage and now sail with a 130. I'm super happy with it. I went with a 130 based on the comments from all of you. I agree with Jack about the ability to reef with the 130. When you order a new one, spend the extra boat bucks and have them install reefing pads. The pads fill in the space created by rolling in the sail and adds to better shape. Finally, the smaller sail almost completely eliminated the rounding up problem and heeling is easily adjusted by letting the main out a bit.

My two cents.

Sara Schroeder
Wandering Star
Seattle, WA
2000/#707

[Joe Grande via C320-list]

When it came time to replace the 130, I went with a furling 150 from North Sails. It came with reefing pad at the luff. My next furling came from FX. While happy with workmanship and price, it lacks the reefing pad. It has served me well in Puget Sound. I have also added a cruising spinnaker from FX.
Joe Grande
2000 320 #772
Whisper

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Subject: Re: [C320-list] Jib size

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[ART HARDEN via C320-list]

Most of my Sailing has been using a 150 or 155. This is been on various boats from a Capri 26 to my current Catalina 320. When I had the Capri 26, I was always having an issue trying to point into the wind. I finally was able to get a 110 jib and found that it made the boat point like a dog in heat.

I ordered a new sale for Tortuga and bought a 135 for Lake Erie. I have not had a chance to really put the sail to use, but I am hoping to this season.

My thought is that if you are on a beam reach the 155 is a great sail. However, if you’re trying to point into the wind, it can be a hindrance instead of an asset. In light winds, trying to point into the wind, a 155 tends to pull the bow off. It may be the way I’m trimming the sails, but this is what I have found.

The above comments in five dollars will get you a cup of coffee from Starbucks

Sent from my iPhone
Art Harden
Catalina 320 "Tortuga" E-62
937.885.9380 (o)
937.477.5544 (m)

> On Mar 1, 2024, at 6:55 AM, Tim via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All -

[Karl Krueger via C320-list]

Hi All:

Just a thought on the sail size issue. I do feel the type of keep on your
C320 makes a difference as well.

The fin keel will perform better going upwind in light air and with 155%
I'm able to out point many other boats.

Karl Krueger
Kindred Spirit #282
Milwaukee WI

--


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Karl W Krueger - ABR, CRS, GRI,
RE/MAX Lakeside Realty
Phone - 414-322-6541

Have a smooth sailing day.....

[ptormey 4square.net via C320-list]

I find the physics of pointing higher with a 155 a bit puzzling. Having raced both a 150 and a 135 on separate 32 foot boats both with wing keels, I find the smaller sail points better.

It seems to me the more force you have forward of the mast the more force you have against pointing high.

Now if you tell me you reef in your 155 then it could start to make sense. But I'm still not seeing it.

Pat
Pat Tormey
s/v Blues Skies
Newport RI

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From: C320-list <c320-lis...@lists.catalina320.com> On Behalf Of Karl Krueger via C320-list
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 4:17 PM
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Cc: Karl Krueger <smooth...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [C320-list] Jib size

[Rich via C320-list]

Adding to the discussion: we successfully raced a C&C-29 on Lake Ontario in an 8 boat one design fleet, and it was critical to have a recent high tech 155% sail to be competitive in that fleet. What is critical to getting performance out of a large Genoa is that it needs to form the ideal shape. When a sail has lost its shape through age and stretch, the draft moves back producing more weather helm and less forward drive. A large Dacron sail with a UV cover, such as the one on our C320, simply weighs too much to shape well in light air, and it is too big for heavy air. The wind range where it is advantaged is probably 5 - 12 knots. We get a lot of that on Lake Ontario. When it is <5 knots, this sail can be pretty bad upwind. For cruising any significant distance we need to use the iron sail in those conditions. I could believe a 130-140% Dacron cruising sail may be better below 5 knots wind due to lower hanging weight and better shape and above 12 knots the boat would be better balanced with less weather helm. In the 5-12 sweet spot the 155 would “win the race”.

Rich Allen
SV Destiny, #265, 1995

Mobile device, please pardon any errors

> On Mar 1, 2024, at 7:28 PM, ptormey 4square.net via C320-list <c320...@lists.catalina320.com> wrote:
>
> I find the physics of pointing higher with a 155 a bit puzzling. Having raced both a 150 and a 135 on separate 32 foot boats both with wing keels, I find the smaller sail points better.

[Troy Dunn via C320-list]

For us simplicity and ability to cover a wide range of winds will trump
pointing and high performance. On the Chesapeake having a large headsail
is really necessary for light air, but there are probably better options
than a 155 Genoa if you are willing to add a assym or gennekar. When we
initially bought Wonky Dog it had 20 year old blown out sails, original
electronics, original canvas, and some other things on the must have list
that meant sticking with the 155 originally. As most know the difference
between a well designed and crisp 155 and a blown out original stock 155 is
night and day and we don’t seem to suffer all that bad on pointing. We
bought an Elvström sail that was custom cut for our boat from Chesapeake
Sailmakers. It’s a fantastic sail and the luff tapes seem to help shape
when reefed. Racer's would probably just buy more sails ans change sails.
We are still quite happy with the 155, although I have been eyeing a bow
sprit and a furlex for sailing north on the Chesapeake in summer, it seems
like no matter whether we want to go NNE, N, or NNW in summer, the wind is
always right at our back.

FWIW

Troy Dunn
Hull #514