New URL - Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow

[Andrew Birch]

Sorry folks,

Picasa started acting up so I moved the pictures onto my blog -

You can see them by going to http://bostonbirds.org/blog.html and
navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the
files -

http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg - (side view)
http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg - (straight on)
http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg - (perspective)

--
Andrew Birch
Boston Birds Moderator
http://bostonbirds.org
Medford, MA
andrew...@gmail.com

[tfactor]

Thanks for the pics Andrew. Unfortunately they still leave me
ambivalent about the identity. I see clear traits of both Nelson's and
Saltmarsh, Can someone else chime in with an opinion more informed
than mine (which is based almost entirely on Sibley's illustrations
and descriptions) about which species it is?

On May 8, 10:40 pm, "Andrew Birch" <andrewlbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry folks,
>
> Picasa started acting up so I moved the pictures onto my blog -
>
> You can see them by going tohttp://bostonbirds.org/blog.htmland
> navigating to the Sharp-tailed entry, or you can go straight to the
> files -
>

> http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss1.jpg- (side view)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss2.jpg- (straight on)http://bostonbirds.org/images/smss3.jpg- (perspective)

>
> --
> Andrew Birch
> Boston Birds Moderatorhttp://bostonbirds.org
> Medford, MA

> andrewlbi...@gmail.com

--
Tim Factor
Boston

[Andrew Birch]

Tim and all,

It is my understanding the lighter "buff" color on the breast and
sides combined with the large beak make this a salt-marsh. If it were
a Nelson's the dark streaking, lack of gray wash on back, and bright
face would mean that it would be of the Central "race" which would
then mean the beak would be even smaller than the Atlantic "race" of
Nelsons.

In MN I was fortunate to live about 15 miles from a sedge marsh that
had huge numbers of Nelson's in it this past summer and it is my
opinion that they seem to appear more "dumpy" and less streamlined
than this bird.

Open to any other comments on the ID though!

Best,

--
Andrew Birch
Boston Birds Moderator
http://bostonbirds.org

andrew...@gmail.com
(857) 350 - 2080 cell

[Joanna Kulik]

Well, you can also use the "wisdom of crowds" method of bird identification. :)

If you do a Google image search on either bird, all of the pictures of Saltmarsh sparrows have whitish, streaked breasts and throats.  And all of the Nelson's have brown-blush, streaked throats.  I have to say, the blushing Nelson's throat does seem similar to the one in this picture, though the streaks themselves are sharper.

I've never seen either bird in person, so who am I to say?  The one thing the net can help with.  According to Wikipedia, these birds are so difficult to tell apart, for a long time they were believed to be the same species. :)

Happy ID'ing,

Jo

[Stuart Walker]

As one of the people who spent some time looking at this bird, I have to say it seems to show characteristics of both types.  The bill is certainly long, and Andrew is right to describe the MN birds as "dumpy", which this bird is not.   Also Sibley describes the side streaking of a Nelson's as more rufous.

 

But I will say that I think the orange breast and sides in the photo is bleached out a little - the bird was richer in color (the grass was a deeper, darker green, too.)  And the throat was definitely orange-buff.  Pete Dunne, in describing the difference between the species, states unambiguously that "the throat of Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrow is white; the throat of Nelson's Shapr-tailed is orange." 

 

I agree with Jo that all the photos of Nelson's that come up in a Google search look like this bird - including the bill!   Like her, Dexter was remarking about these birds only recently being split into two species. 

 

Stuart

stuart...@comcast.net

[tim factor]

The photos are de-saturated from being enlarged and cropped; the bird was much more orange in person.

However I've come to agree with Andrew that it's the Salt-marsh species. The traits that made me think initially that it was Nelson's all involve color: orange bib, orange-buff throat, blue-gray bill. I think for the purposes of distinguishing bird populations, though, that color isn't nearly as important as bill size and shape, which in this bird are clearly more like Salt-marsh, because bill characteristics are likely more indicative of different diet, habitat, and habits and those differences are what keep populations separate. I also give a lot of credence to Andrew's "GISS" impression based on his experience with the "inland" Nelson's, which is what this bird would be were it Nelson's because of the white stripes on its back.

I've only had fleeting glimpses of either species (or both before they were split) because they're so secretive under normal circumstances so it's a little frustrating to finally get great views of one and have it be somewhat ambiguous but it was also a big treat to see one so close right in the middle of the city so I'm not complaining.

--
Tim Factor
Boston
tfactor...@gmail.com

[tim factor]

OK, I've spent the last 15 minutes Googling images of Sharp-tailed Sparrows of both species and have concluded, first, that I need to get out more, and second, that in many of the photos of Nelson's the bill is as long as our bird's. Unfortunately we can't always be sure of the accuracy of the IDs for the photos on the net.

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Stuart Walker <stuart...@comcast.net> wrote:

[gdent...@juno.com]

I'm not sure this will make it through.

 

My first impression of the image(s) was Nelson's.  The bird shows a strong gray collar and the throat/chin area is orangeish.  The upright stance shows more of a rounded head which I think Nelson's has in comparison to Salt-marsh.  The bird shows white back braces which are more in line w/Nelson's.

 

The only point which troubles me is the strong streaking on the sides and coming across the chest.  I am unaware of any Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed sighting not in a saltmarsh.

 

My two cents.

 

        Glenn

Glenn d'Entremont, gdent...@juno.com, Stoughton, MA