1994 Oceanis 351 Main Furling

[Allen Dick]

My main furler worked quite flawlessly for many years but recently
started to jam to the point I had to get a rigger to remove the sail.

I took this furler for granted for years and now realize I've never
serviced it. The rigger says the bearings etc. are worn and estimates
$2,000 to rebuild it, and apparently the job can be done without
dropping the mast.

I did a little bit of research and it seems this 1994 model predates the
Mark II versions.  Rather than a gearbox, it has a spiral in the mast on
which the furling line winds and unwinds.

I looked for a manual, and it does not seem to be online but have not
yet written Selden but it recurred to me to consult the folks here for
insight.

Has anyone had any experience with this?

[jeremiah johnson]

Is it a Selden inmast? I only ask I have  Beneteau 461 inmast 901z U.S. Spars aka Z-Spars. I also have a Bavaria with a Selden inmast?

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[Ben Durant]

Are you sure it is a Seldon?  The design sounds like a Profurl.

 

Ben Durant
802.355.6688

[Charlie Swan]

I have the same issue, had to grind the sail outhaul to get it out, amd in. I've now replaced the furling drum on my B361, and the problem lessened somewhat, so now am replacing the top swivel as well. 

Did the drum without unstepping the mast...a chore, but with help got the old one out and new in. 

Let us know how you make out.

Charlie

S/V Swoon in Bermuda

[Paul Schwab]

Allen,

I suspect you have two issues.  Your sail was likely jamming because it was blown, stretched in the middle creating excess bulk. (I had this happen to me.)

I would also question your identification of the mast.  It should be pretty clear if the mast furling system is U.S. Spars aka Z-Spars (furling line around a screw spiral) or gear driven.  In any event, a baggy sail will jam when being pulled out.  

Paul

`99 BO 352

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[Jon Schultz]

Hello Mates,

Having just serviced the furling drum and furling line I thought I’d share some info. Although my mast is the Z901 furling mast, The oceanis 351 did come with a US Spars mast.

 https://www.usspars.com/boat-information/?vendor=Beneteau&model=Oceanis+351

Parts and service are available. I sent the drum to US Spars had a new line and reconditioned for 300.00. Removing the drum means the sail must be removed. The link is to the 351. So hopefully this is your mast. 

In addition to a baggy sail the furling line becomes swelled over time and may jump out of the furling track and cause additional furling issues. If really difficult check the line swell and track placement. There is also some debate on the boom angle to the mast when furling. Some say 90 others say a few degrees less like a degree for every foot of main sail (at the foot). If it’s not a tight roll in chances are you will have issues rolling it out.   Best is a slow in and slow out. Box from us spars received and installed. The sail is old so that’s next. 

Good luck,

Jon

S/V Ramble On ‘96 440

On Nov 30, 2024, at 10:53 PM, Paul Schwab <pschw...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[RICHARD F SIMONEAU]

Also plan to clean and regressed the furling top slide.  Do this in a clean area. Remove the snap ring. Remove and clean two bearings.  Note that the inner bearing race is loose as are the balls.  After cleaning, use waterproof marine grease (available at Home Depot among others).  The grease holds the balls in place while the inner races are installed.

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From: benetea...@googlegroups.com <benetea...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jon Schultz <jsch...@gmail.com>
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To: benetea...@googlegroups.com <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: benetea...@googlegroups.com <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} 1994 Oceanis 351 Main Furling

 

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[allendick]

Thanks for the advice folks. It seems that you are right and this is not a Selden mast. As far as I can tell it is a Beneteau OC3LA RF and the parts manual is online at Product Maintenance | U.S. Spars

I still need to study it and find a pats source here in the Baja Sur in case they are needed. As for the procedure, it seems there is no manual for that since, I guess the process is obvious.

What experience have others had with this sort of rig? Is there a tendency for where in the bearings and the swivels? I really don't wanna drop the rig if I don't need to so part of the estimated cost is climbing the tree.

 

 Once I understand better, I'll have a chat with the rigger. 

 

[allendick]

I was intending to post this picture and forgot. 

[RICHARD F SIMONEAU]

The furling unit can be removed with the mast up.  Better if sail is removed prior.  Remove the side plate screws.  Remove the bottom bolt. When removing the top bolt, take care that the threaded plate doesn't fall into the mast.  Pry out the unit from the bottom.  I hap the unit rebuilt by us spars but should be obvious.  Remove and rebuild the top slide (commented on yesterday).  Mark top of slide so it goes in correctly.

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Sent: Monday, December 2, 2024 5:01:08 PM
To: Beneteau Owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} 1994 Oceanis 351 Main Furling

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[Allen Dick]

> The furling unit can be removed with the mast up.  Better if sail is
removed prior.

I haven't really gotten deep into this, however, my perception has been
that it's not the furling unit that's the problem but rather the
extrusion and parts aloft.

The sail has been removed for some time and I have a new one on order,
but I'm under the impression that since I haven't serviced the thing in
the 7 years I've owned this boat and I've read that the parts should be
lubricated -- and also that it it is now 30 years old, that maybe it
needs a little more than lubrication.

If it was just the furling drum, unit then that would be very nice
because it's accessible from the deck. On the other hand, if it's parts
that are at the top of the mast, the job could be more difficult.

Additionally, if parts are needed I have to obtain them here in Mexico
somehow, or have them built.

[Jon Schultz]

Instructions for removal of drum from US Spars if that’s the route you take. They have the manuals too. They may ship to Mexico. Call them. Super helpful in my experience. 

The swivel rod will drop as the drum is removed. Mark said connection point and make sure to line up the rod and drum connection.  You tube has some videos as well. A two person job but can be done solo. 

Jon

S/v Ramble On

On Dec 2, 2024, at 4:58 PM, allendick <alle...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Paul Schwab]

Allen,  

Don't create drama when it doesn't exist.  Your sail jammed because it was blown. I've been down this exact road, made all the same assumptions, drove myself crazy with false fear and found that it was a simple matter of preventive maintenance.

The furling drum should be serviced based on the conditions you sail in.  The drum has a bearing set @ top and bottom of the drum. These are open bearings designed to be flushed with fresh water. Dry graphite lubes tend to cake/clump and create a lumpy rough operation problem (personal experience).  

You have been given the instruction on how to remove the drum assembly.  Just do it.  Disassemble over a drop cloth (again personal experience) and clean everything thoroughly. Reassemble and replace the furling line.  In fact, the furling line swells and creates more friction in the whole system more than any other factor.      

Paul

`99 Oceanis 352

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[Allen Dick]

> Don't create drama when it doesn't exist.  Your sail jammed because it was blown.

This is true but I think there is more to it than just an old sail because I've had experience with jamming and unjammed it before more than once. Previously, it had more to do with the boom vang and friction.

This last time it was really jammed and I had to have the riggers take the sail out which I've never had to do before and it took them quite a while.  I should have just cut it out. I have a new sail on order.

At the same time sail was removed, they  went aloft and informed me that something(s) up there is worn and may need to be replaced.  

The rigger himself was out of commission, so I only have the word of his helper.   He should be recovered by now so once I have studied up, we will have a more in depth chat.

I'm glad I asked here or I would've wasted a lot of time and maybe some money too.  Up to this point I had assumed this was a Selden rig like the one on one of my other boats,  and now that I have found the parts manual, I'll dive in little deeper.

Frankly, I haven't been particularly panicked about this because I have a huge genoa and with little bit of sailing I've been doing lately, I haven't really needed the main.  Just the same, I do want to get everything right and I'm glad I asked here because now I have what I need to start drilling down and it sounds as if pulling that drum out is a good place to start.

The kid seemed to think that I needed a new furling line but I replaced it not too long ago and it is obviously not rubbing anywhere that I can see so perhaps he noticed some resistance to turning  the drum. 

It'd be nice if nothing aloft has to be replaced but we do need to grease everything because I don't know when it was ever greased in the last 30 years. I've had the boat for seven.

Thanks to all those who have offered advice and if there's anything more I should know or any experiences to relate, I'm very interested.

[Paul Schwab]

Pull the drum, disassemble and clean.  There is nothing to "grease".  Grease attracts and holds dirt and other abrasive gunk. Read the published guidance from the manufacturer. 

The furling line tends to swell.  The screw channel in the furling drum has a pretty tight tolerance.  This furling line doesn't wear out, it just gets fat as it absorbs dirt and salt particles.

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[Paul Schwab]

Here is the operations manual for this mast.  Start on page 15.

https://www.usspars.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/operational-manual-2023.pdf

On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 10:32 AM Allen Dick <alle...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Allen Dick]

Thanks again everyone.

All the comments have been very helpful, and I must confess that I first
started writing about this while I wasn't anywhere near the boat, but
today I'm on the boat and I took the inspection plates off and took a
look inside.  I found that  I find that the spindle turns freely so
maybe nothing was jammed unless there's something that only jams when
it's under load.

I did not mount the mainsail last time it was bent on ,and I suspected
that it may not have been properly installed because there was always a
little twist at the top that shouldn't have been there. At any rate the
sail was taken down sometime back and the so called riggers who are
actually apprentices left the extrusion clattering inside the mast much
to the enjoyment of my neighbors while I was away, and my enjoyment on
my return.  I think they're charging me journeyman's wages for
apprentices. They take twice as long to do the job as they should and
yet they're charging me journeyman's wages.

Be that as it may, I may disassemble things just for the fun of it and
inspect the mechanism and flush it out. I still have not assimilated all
the reading material but I thought it would help to have some idea of
what's there by actually looking at things because people call different
parts by different names and seeing the guts makes the drawings more
meaningful.

To get rid of the clatter I just ran the car halfway up the mast with a
retrieval line attached to it and that seems to have eliminated the noise.

So, with any kind of luck it was just the sail that was the problem, but
I don't think so. I still haven't quite figured out what's aloft and if
there is something to jam up there.

I'll be reading some more, then going out again and playing with things
later today.

[John Mullaney]

I have almost the same boat and same mast. Would love to see pictures/video of your progress!  Picturing being worth 1,000 words and all.  I've been following this thread and see two main themes.  1) what preventive maintenance can/should be done and when and 2) how do you take everything apart and put it back together again.  

Thanks all for sharing your collective knowledge!

-john

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[allendick]

Well, with all the information that has been provided here, I've been able to assess the situation and as far as I can tell at present there's nothing wrong with the furler and maybe it was just the sail.

For what it is worth, I'm in a marina with lots of fresh water so I have hosed down the drum quite regularly but I have never hosed down the swivels. I'll give them a closer examination  for wear and also run some water through them while I have everything apart.

I'll flush everything, and, as recommended in the literature, give bearings a shot of WD40.  I will also examine the furling drum since that looks easy and check the shackles for wear since there is some play.

It'll be a while before I have the new sail but I'm assuming that things should go pretty well here on out