Standing Rigging on a Purchase

[drdanj]

I'm selling my '83 Catalina 36 and just closed on a '94 Beneteau 400, now need to get the survey, haulout, sea trial on the Bene. Question: At the last minute, the buyer of my C36 suddenly went nuts about the question of how old was the (wire) standing rigging. We've calmed him down, and the sale is going through. 

I know the recommendation is if more than 10 years, replace. But I cannot find anything more than some word of mouth "just because" opinion with no actuarial data behind it, no "failure rate curve" to back it up. You can't scan across the harbor and watch rigs falling by age of last replacement. If there were data to back this up, it should be out there in evidence somewhere, it is not. The 10 year rule seems designed to cover surveyors tails, little more. Because one guy said it, everyone says it.

In reality:

How many people have bought boats with standing rigging guaranteed <10 years old, because it was guaranteed new?

How many have bought boats where you knew the rigging was more than 10 years old, and have not replaced it since? (Me, twice and nothing happened.)

How many faithfully replace standing rigging every 10 years? (Of course you're in the group: "you'll never know" how long the rigs actually would last. Nonetheless, good for you, I'm not criticizing your safety record, just making the observation.)

How many have rejected a boat because either the rigging age was unknown or known to be >10 years old, or the seller would not lower the price because it was >10 years? 

FYI, the only thing I've found to have a semblance of authority is a document that states "Navtec recommends replacing the turnbuckle screws after a maximum of 40,000 sailing miles or 6 years (whichever comes first). The screws may last for many additional years, but it is much less expensive to replace a few rigging screws than to replace the mast and all of the rigging."

They do not recommend replacing the entire rig, just the turnbuckles, if the wires are not frayed, there is nothing wrong with them.

But even that does not appear to be based on actuarial data, just opinion.

Thoughts?

[Mark Stillwell]

In August we moved our 2003 B393 from Missouri to St. Petersburg, Fl. The Yacht Rigger worked with Maximo Boatyard to step the mast, check the standing and running rigging and lots of other updates. The only problem they found the starboard back-stay turnbuckle had been cross threaded and both needed replaced. They had no concerns about anything else. Of course this is a freshwater boat coming to the sea.

They recommended we have the rigging inspected yearly and replaced as needed.

FYI, I highly recommend The Yacht Rigger. They installed an Atlantic Towers arch, solar panels, batteries, 3000 watt inverter, battery charger and radar. Steve, Richard and Brian are a great team!

Dido Maximo Boatyard. They took delivery, sanded and painted bottom, waxed the hull and installed a J-Prop. They were easy to work with, competitively priced and very friendly. They encouraged us to visit and view their work and ask questions.

Mark & Suzanne Stillwell
S/V Dragonfly II

Beneteau 393

573.819.0436

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[George P]

I would check with your insurance company, Many of them will not insure for rigging failure if the the standing rigging is older than 10-12 years.  I bet, it's because of their determinations that the rule of thumb on standing rigging exists.

It comes down to what you plan on doing with the boat and your comfort level.  Comfort being peace of mind.

The first thing I did was replace all the standing on our boat.  It was original and 23 years old.  Nothing apparently wrong with it but I wanted feel safe and confident for our ocean travels. 

[B F-405]

Great question, and I don’t think there is answer! 10 years to me seems ridiculous. If I ever found a “meat hook” on a wire I would replace, inspect and lube turnbuckles and swages every year. Staylocks maybe should be on a 10 year replacement schedule. Some surveyors will automatically put it into RECS, others will just say inspect. Choose wisely.

[Bill Jarvis]

Perhaps the only definitive way to know is to take the rigging off the boat and have each and every swage , turnbuckle and wire X-Rayed and have those X-rays studied. The cost of that is far in excess of simply replacing with new.

Ditto for rod rigging.

How many of us heard of a rig falling down due to failure of the wire?
How many boats do we know of that have rigs over 20 years old with original rigs?

Bill

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[Dan Barac]

For me the answer is simple. My insurance company will tolerate standing rigging age of up to 10 years. Then they will give you one year to either replace the standing rigging, or obtain a certified surveyor's report that the rigging is still ok. Such report will then have to be obtained every 12 months, prior to the insurance renewal.

The cost of such report would be in the vicinity of $400 - $500, providing you could find a rigger to sign on it. Don't forget, if he signs on it and the rig fails, the insurance company will be after him. So not many riggers would be willing to help you with this. Even if you found one, sounds crazy to me to spend this sort of money every year and still have old rigging. So for me, this avenue is a no go.

The other option is to have an insurance policy with the standing rigging exclusion clause on it. This means that if the boat is a total loss due to say grounding, fire or collision, they will still pay for the whole thing. However, if you lose your rig due to 'environmental factors', it is not insured, nor is any other damage to the boat resulting from the loss of the rig. I don't have exact numbers, but I believe that if I lost the mast and the boom with all the rigging, wiring and sails, it would cost me somewhere between $60,000 and $80,000 in material, transport and labour by the time the rig was back up and all other collateral damage fixed. For me, accepting that kind of risk is also not an option.

That's why 10 months ago I had my standing rigging replaced at the cost of about $10,000. It was 11 years old. It looked good to me and if it was only up to me, I would have left it for another few years. When I replaced the standing rigging last time, it was 15 years old and again, to me it still looked ok. I had a rigger do a quick inspection every year and he said it looked ok to him too. This was before all insurance companies adopted the 10 year rule.

Fair winds,
Dan
'Babar', '94 OC 440

[DAVID Fletcher]

Beneteau offers rigging kits for some of the more recent boats. 

423 and 473 prices are good when you consider you get everything including the turn buckles.

US spars said they can do better however I have never checked with them 

Fletch

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