Statistics about Secular countries, Conversion to Islam etc.

[Abida Rahmani]

Dear Dr. Shershah 

ASA

I 'll put my comments inside your mail in color and shall try to response you with best of my ability. 

I have asked a brother Dr. Sabeel Ahmad  who is also a medical doctor and is the Director of " Gain Peace" a dawah mission  project to provide me with facts and figures about  new Muslims , the conversion rate and statistics  in USA to clarify this situation.It would be a great pleasure to join him in this discussion. He can introduce him self and his achievements.

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Shershah Syed <shersh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

WITH CORRECTION

MOHTARMA SARWAT SAHEBA AND ABIDA REHMANI SAHEBA
 
Thanks for your comments which i red again and again with best of my ability.i hope i have understood  them
 
I will again try to explain what i am saying and will like all participants to be focused on issues i am raising.un fortunately it doesn't happen most of the time and i do not get answers of the question i raised. instead answering questions particepents tried to mix the issues.a friend asked me not to get involve in this discussion because people believes that there is----- a phenomenal conversion rate,that secularism is anti islam etc etc. ----but i will still try again to present my questions with hope that people will read it with out GHUSSA and ANGER

why should there be an anger? Don't worry be happy! 

 
1-- West is attractive to educated and skilled muslims because of the EQUALITY,RULE OF LAW,DEMOCRACY,PROVISION OF EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES,EMPHASIS ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT,INVESTMENT ON EDUCATION AND RESEARCH,TOLERANCE FOR ALL RELIGIONS AND RELIGIOUS ACTIVITIES ETC ETC.----there are some racial and ethnic based incidences but as a whole society deals with it transparently.----all these things came out because of govt who runs on the basis of secularism i call it RAWADARI, that means that state should not run on the rules of religion. the idea of LIBERTY,EQUALITY and HUMAN RIGHTS did not come  in few days in western civilzation.Enlightend people fought for it and it became possible when they were able to get rid of religious rules and regulation from the state apparatus.religious leaders were stopped to interfer in matters of human beeings .

if we talk about Pakistan, USA & Canada , I know about these two countries because of my living here.About Islam and Muslims these are tolerant societies . Canada a more tolerant because they call it Mosaic culture. In USA it is called a melting pot and in the long run both of the countries believe in assimilation. You must find masajids , mandars, gurdwars and bhuddist temples flourishing in these countries.On visibility USA is no more the same country which was before 9/11. There are informers and secret agents of FBI and Canadian agencies among Muslims for spying and making the country safe. these agencies most of the time frame and arrest innocent boys. With all this secularism you must have observed how President Obama always went through hot waters because of his Muslim roots. For which he has to prove it once and again by going to church services and showing his strong Christianity.

In Pakistan it has turned into an intolerant brutal society with ignorance, extremism and not understanding Islam in true spirits. Over there we had high ups from minorities in the past. People like you should work hard to make it a tolerant country again. It is heart wrenching how the minorities are treated there.

 
2----during the golden age of muslim rule 7-8th century to 12--13th century when lot of scientific progress were made which helped ISLAMIC EMPIRE to flourish was practically a period of relative secularism when lots of people from different religion even jews were migrated to muslim territories and allowed to work  and write with out fear----THAT'S WHAT HISTORY TELL US.

AS I perceived  by secularism you mean rawadari or tolerance. Secularism is the principle of separation of government institutions, and the persons mandated to represent the State, from religious institutions and religious dignitaries. In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief.

Islam always provided tolerance  and protection to minorities . Their conversion to Islam was on their free will. But every Muslim ruler had clergy or Ulema always on his  side even during the golden era of Islam.

 
3----presently muslim country TURKEY with official secularism and malaysia ,indonesia with unofficial secularism may not be the best but are far better than saudi arabia,iran and beloved pakistan.they are making significant progress in all direction--HUMAN RIGHTS TO SCIENCE,TECHNOLOGY , ART MUSIC AND LITERATURE.

Turkey of course turned into secular country but alhamdolillah coming back to its Muslim identity. You are right that Turkey, Malaysia & Indonesia are tolerant or there is religious harmony in those countries. I appreciate KSA , UAE , Iran and other gulf countries or states  that at least those countries have maintained law and order and getting prospered. There is no doubt in their double standards in ethics and practice.

 
4----Your data and information regarding religious conversion is not suffeciant.the estimation is not correct because the initial censes are not able to provide real population of muslims in usa.if you take the report of THE FUTURE GLOBAL MUSLIM PROJECTION FOR 2010--2030[2011] and  MAPPING THE MUSLIM GLOBAL POPULATION [2009],below is some interesting quote for your consideration.
 
++THE MUSLIM POPULATION IN THE UNITED STATES IS PROJECTED TO MORE THAN DOUBLE IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS,FROM NEARLY 2.6 MILLION IN 2010 TO ABOUT 6.2 MILLION IN 2030 IN LARGE PART BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION AND HIGHER THAN AVERAGE FERTILITY AMONG MUSLIMS.

 
++THE LIMITED INFORMATION ON CONVERSION INDICATES THAT THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT BOTH IN TO AND OUT OF ISLAM BUT THAT THERE IS NO MAJOR NET GAIN OR LOSS.
suppose it is wrong and instead of 6 millions it may be 50 million or 120 million----do you think these converted muslims will opt for a system in saudi arbia or iran or pakistan or the great govt system of taliban/alqaida in afghanistan--- do you think these 120 million muslims will like to live under CLOWN KING,QUEENS,HUNDEREDS OF PRINCE AND PRNCES OF SAUDI ARABIA.i am  simply trying to understand your logic of conversion.i hope i made my self clear.
  I  am not sure about the exact data of conversion to Islam . But many are inspired by this message and they found solace and protection in Islam. If you go through some new Muslims websites and articles , you will find how delighted they are after getting into all these restrictions of Islam. I hope that br. Sabeel or br. Shamim help me with that. You know they are doing Dawah in all possible ways.

According to a rough estimate there are about 6 million Muslims in USA and Canada. It includes Qadianis , Aghakhanis, Bohries and Shia. There are almost 50% non practicing or not too much Muslims. YOu are right many of those converts go out too with frustration or disappointed . A lot of support programs are provided by different organization.

Again  I agree with you that some of the die hard Muslims did not like the society  of KSA , UAE. let alone Taliban & rest. If you talk to Muslim youth here . Apart from practicing Islam in a very nice way, rest of their lifestyle is just westernized. Like the Imam who lead us in Trawih with beautiful Qirat would say ," Let me first grab a double double coffee from Tim or Starbucks." Under the abayas girls wearing hollywood style dresses. they know what is permissible and what is unpermissible.

5----I think it is very wrong to say that right wing christians are worried about conversion. right wing christian are worried about emigration of all kind of people muslims non muslims alike. please read DOUG SANDERS book THE MYTH OF MUSLIM TIDE it may help you and every one in understanding of emigration related issues of muslims.
 
6----it is also not right to say that christian missionaries are converting muslims by providing them food. food,health,cloths are very important things in life but this kind of statement are very superficial.it also shows that idealogy has no power in it.I worked with many missionary hospitals  in africa,ireland and pakistan and tried to understand them and their practices .your statment gives me a very bad taste in my mouth. apologies for my real feeling.

In  past christian missionaries were greatly involved in converting people to Christianity. They must be doing it now too. All the Jamadar or sweeper class in subcontinent were shudar or maleech whom the missionaries converted into Christianity and dignified them, while the Muslims were fast asleep.In East Pakistan in hospitals the local nurses were all Christians. They were survived as kids from cyclone and flood hit areas and brought up in Mission boarding. The churches are very rich in North America, Europe and else where. They own big properties , hospitals , research centers  Educational institutions. All the convent schools back home were owned by churches. 

 
7---- Christians are already in minority in many European countries and in england as majority of people doesn't believe on religion,or christian kind of god[i red it in a recent article in daily guardian] .if they all are converting to islam the govements will  have no problem with that as far as they follow the law of land. BRIGID BARDOOT is a very strict vegetarian and animal lover .she has a right to have an oppinion.she hates the killing---QURBANI,KOSHER--- of animals by muslims and jews equally. she feels that increasing number of muslims will destroy the french culture and tradition as i feel that TALIBAN and AL-QAIDA way of living has destroyed my great city of karachi and beautiful  swat.i AM TERRIFIED TO SEE FOLLOWERS OF USSAMA BIN LADDEN AND TALIBAN WHO ARE ALWAYS READY TO KILL ANY ONE ON THE NAME OF RELIGION---SHIAS,AMERICANS,JEWS AND AHMEDIES.its my personnel oppinion like BB has the oppinon about mosque and minarates.believe me if ever she tried to break a stone of any mosque she will be arrested immediatly and will be punished even she is BRIGID BARDOOT
 
8----i am very happy to know that more than 24000 people convert to islam every year in usa, and it is also a good news that more and more mosques are built in usa,europe,.i am sure same must be happening in australia ,newzeland japan and korea.i only hope and wish THAT NON MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN SAUDI ARABIA AND OTHER ISLAMIC COUNTRIES HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS TO PRACTICE AND PREACH THEIR RELIGION WITH OUT FEAR.NO BODY BURNS THEIR PLACES OF WORSHIPS AND NO BODY KILL THEM BECAUSE OF THEIR BELIEVES. IF IT HAPPEN THAN GOVT SHOULD BE ABLE TO  DEAL THE CRISIS WITH LAW AND JUSTICE
 
my mother is not very  highly educated person but she always used to tell us that what ever you like for your self you must like it for others.JO APNE LEYA CHAHHO WOHIE DOSRONNE KE LEYEAE BHIE CHAHHO.

Your mother was a great lady . How do you say not highly educated , as she was doctor herself and the inspirational force behind all of you. This is wonderful saying or quote!

 
All my friends,muslim brothers and sisters who are living under the system of SECULARISM---RAWADARI--- and enjoying a great life and allowed to practice their religion with out fear. they are  also allowed to preach and  convert people from other religion ----of course with consent ---to become muslim .They are also allowed to built mosque and have own grave yards THEY should think about us and please lobby our govt and leaders to have same system you have.
 
AM I ASKING FOR TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH

AS you are there handle your government, Zardari and cronies . Try to make it a land of pure in the real sense. 

 
once again i will ask for foregiveness if i hurt any ones feeling by any comment
shershah syed
pakistan
 
 
 Thank you very much all the best!
 

Abida Rahmani 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

---

From: sar...@nazirh.com
To: BAZMe...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: {19187} تبصرہ کتب-۲
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 21:47:39 -0600

Walaikum Assalaam Abida,

 

I am glad to know that you are a big supporter of CAIR, MashaALLAH.

 

Where are you in States?

 

Though I do not get to read all the emails every day on this forum, due to my travels, but I really enjoy the forum whenever I am on it.

I do not even know how I landed on BazmeQalam.

 

Who is the moderator of this forum?

Are the people on its list serve the same that are on Aligarh Urdu Club forum?

 

Please let me know.

 

Hope someday somewhere we will meet in person.

 

Take care

 

Jazak ALLAH Khair

SArwat

 

 

 

From: Abida Rahmani [mailto:abida.r...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 5:16 PM
To: BAZMe...@googlegroups.com
Cc: sar...@nazirh.com
Subject: Re: {19176} تبصرہ کتب-۲

 

ASA wr Sarwat & DR. Shershah

 

 Sarwat ,I'm so glad that you specified your gender . I was a bit confused too to figure it out whether you are a sister or a brother. The phenomenal matter is to learn about you that you are an office holder of CAIR. I am just a fan or supporter of CAIR and uphold the tasks they are carrying out  for Muslim community in North America. I have some very good friends working  with  CAIR and CAIR-CAN.

That is a great discussion. Jeffrey Lang's  Mohammad ASSAD , Karen Armstrong and many more books are a great source of knowledge and asset for new Muslims. 

Dr. Shershah is an intellectual himself and he should read those books.He might get many answers to his queries.

The west is  quite a bit terrified with demographic changes in their society. There is  a lot of  concern that the white population or the Christians would be minority by the end this century in many countries.

Apart from conversion to Islam the population control , decaying family system , not getting married, giving birth to one or two children in a family is the biggest concern in  Europe. While Muslims and good Muslims believe in big families. Therefore the Muslim population is on rise. Like the Bridgett Bardot  the famous french Hollywood actress quoted," I am terrified to see so many mosques and minarets in Paris and France."

You know Islam is a universal religion, it is not restricted to any specific part of the earth. MashaAllah it is a such a great source of immense joy to see the converted or reverted people and scholars in these lands. 

Dr. Shershah if you come across them you will just love them. They are so many Yusaf Estes, Suhaib web , Hamza Yusaf, Zaid Shakir, Abdul hakim quick, Abdul Hakim Green and many many more alhamdolillah. So many of the converted muslim ladies are such a great source of inspiration for us.They are such a great source of inspiration for our youth and they had glamorized Islam with a great extent.

 

I understand  your point is that why Muslims found peace and tranquility in these secular countries. I absolutely agree with you on this point that these countries accepted us with open arms and provided us freedom of religion and freedom to practice our religion. It is such a great harmony and blessing despite so many hurdles after 9/11. While our own motherlands are in fiasco and turmoil we left our roots , culture and bonds to discover new homes in these  peaceful lands. Of course we contributed to the society brought our skills and talents .

If I share my  untold story with you how I left my home my city and my country for these peaceful abodes. You might say that half of the Karachi is going through those tragic events so what ?

Anyway I agree with you on this note that these secular countries are safe havens for all the Muslims of all the troubled lands. You may call it Pakistan, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria the whole troubled Muslim world.

Thanks and regards!

Abida Rahmani

On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Sarwat Husain <sar...@nazirh.com> wrote:

Salaam Shershah Saheb,

 

Please call me Sarwat sahiba or sister Sarwat.

 

Finally I am ready to send you the data to support my argument of the phenomena of non-muslims accepting Islam.

 

However, before I do that I would like to ask you to give us your evidence for how you have reached to the conclusion that Muslims are moving to the West because West is secular. Please provide us the sources of studies done on this.

 

Moreover, for your information, Muslims migrate to the West for the job opportunities. Many of the Muslim majority countries are third world countries, here they find better living standards. By the way majority of the Muslims migrating here are highly educated.

If they were migrating only to be in a secular society then you would not see so many masajid and Islamic school popping up in every city you go to.

 

There are more than 2000 masajid in US that are registered with our organization CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations). I am the Vice Chair of its Board of Directors and the President of one of the Texas chapters. There are as many small ones that are not registered with us. Which means total number of masajid is much higher.

 

According to our research at least there is one conversion taking place in each masjid once a month. Which means 2000 new Muslims once a month (even if we use only the registered masajid). Multiply that with 12 months, you will get 24000 new Muslims per year. Would you call this a phenomena or not? Which other faith has this?

 

Please go to just a few links I am providing below and find out yourself. There are many more I can get you.

 

Perhaps you know that, according to Quran, there is no compulsion of religion in Islam. Nor Muslims have an organized missionaries around the world, like Christian missionaries that convert people to their faith in exchange of food, housing and jobs.

These people, Alhumdolillah enter Islam at their own free will.

 

Of course there must be some secular Muslim in the West and in Muslim majority countries. As Quran says “there is no compulsion in the religion”, so let them be.

 

I will be anxiously waiting to hear from you about the source of ‘Muslims wanting to live in the secular countries’.

 

Jazak ALLAH Khair

Sis Sarwat Husain

USA