Traveller Additional Thoughts.

[Waterfront]

Happened to be talking to a Beneteau person last week, regarding
traveller being undersized or over stressed for loads. He indicated
that this was the sole reason for the arch and the NEW 50..... Mid
boom sheeting, and the loads, especially given the tall rig, we too
much for existing design.

Not that I want to get my local Benny contact in trouble, but this is
something to note should any of us 49'ers, have mechanical failures.

I wonder if it behoves us to request Beneteau to offer us an equipment
upgrade or re-inforcement of some nature, to lessen the chance of
failure.

Thoughts?


David

SV Waterfront

[Daniel Goldberg]

Sounds like BS. The new system doesn't have a traveler, so it's single point loading.  With the load on the arch it looks like it might have a cantilever effect.  Plus, it won't perform as well.  Would have been much cheaper to put on a beefier traveler.  In sum, I don't think reducing the load, or anything practical/performance oriented, is why they went with the arch.

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[Jim Innes]

Lewmar doesn't make a mid boom sheeting traveler that specs with the tall rig. Even their 'Ocean' series 3 is under spec.

There are Harken Big boat systems that will work. My plan is to retrofit this winter. I also plan to bring it up with the Beneteau President at this years Beneteau Rendezvous in Port Ludlow.

David, you should plan on attending... more fire power.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim Innes

jgi...@gmail.com

[Bob]

I think that it was a design decision, not a good one as it makes it
look like a Hunter.

Regards, Bob, Braveheart, Branford CT

[andre...@gmail.com]

Hi, all

For what it's worth, our boat has sailed 14,000 nms, and traveller has behaved fine. Recent examination showed good condition.

Nut holding the gooseneck fitting fell off after first 100nms, however. Luckily I found it on the coachroof, bolt was about to pop (20 kts breeze, full sail reaching). Poor commissioning.

We're due to test the new clothes washer in anger next week on passage Akld - Fiji. Will keep you all posted.

Cheers

AJ

--------------------------

---

From: Daniel Goldberg <daniel.p...@gmail.com>

Sender: b49o...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 07:01:22 -0500

To: <b49o...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: b49o...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Beneteau 49/Oceanis 50 Owners Traveller Additional Thoughts.

[David at Waterfront]

A much belated comment to Jim.

What are your thoughts on the mid boom traveller now, given the
offshore loading that you saw in the Vic Maui.
Even with a larger spec's Harken, would this solve the potential
problem?

Or how about a Beneteau thought... What about a slick stainless arch
combined with the dodger? German sheeting?

Lastly, what happened with your boom failure?

Cheers,

David
S/V Waterfront

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/B49owners?hl=en.

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> Jim Innes

> jgin...@gmail.com

[Jim Innes]

Hi David,

I just arrived home from Lahaina yesterday... big sail 2955 Lahaina to Victoria (for customs).
Minor repairs required, the usual chaffing issues with long runs. The boom failure still hasn't been resolved. I do have a warranty claim in process with Charleston Spar and Beneteau.
The reason for the failure as described by an engineer was 'classic cantilever failure' . Either under engineered or bad extrusion.
At no time was there a bad jibe, over loaded vang etc. So we'll see were it goes.

Mid sheeting a boom is an issue, reefing moves the load forward... reef early. In our case we were broad reaching full main.

The problem they're having with the arch is there is no traveler. You need to be able to travel down... simple as that. So it will be interesting to see how they address that.

The stock traveler is under sized... even the new roller bearing shives failed... before I go again it will be changed.

If you go, fit your boat with an inner stay, solent anything that is removable. Buy a number 3 sized jib that you can hank or furl on the inner stay. Also take a storm jib and trysail... a must.
Coming home we were using the number 3 in anything over 18 knots. At 20 we reefed. For 3 days in a gale we were double reefed and storm jib still doing 10's saw 14.2 once, lots of 12's.
Furling the genoa is ok locally but extended operation doesn't work, not the right shape and you'll wear out the furling line and or furler.

Cheers,

Jim

[Andrew Reid]

HI, Jim

Thanks for the update - always nice to get some miles in.

Agree on reefing - these are quite tender boats, and benefit from early reefing. We tend to start with the main, go down to two reefs before reducing headsail. Balance seems better.

And the inner forestay is a must for offshore. Not only useful for hanging a storm jib, but also stops mast pumping in chop.

The traveller? We bust the bolts holding the block to the traveller car - new setup a bit beefier.

Boom sheeting? I'd argue that it's always best to sheet from the boom end, not the middle - faced with a choice, I'd forego traveller (which is a pretty short run on our boats anyway) over end boom sheeting. Don't know if the new arches should have a traveller - vang could do the work in any case. The reality is that mid boom sheeting precludes pushing the boat hard when its blowing - not necessarily a bad thing for a cruising boat. Bear in mind we have the standard rig, so a bit less sail area.

Most breeze we had on a recent Akld-Fiji was just over 40 kts, beam reaching. Down to two reefs and small furled headsail - storm jib not deployed in this instance. We have a very deep third reef in our new main, haven't used it in anger yet, but planning Fiji - Akld early November, so we'll see. 

Congratulations on the race, its a great downwind slide!

Cheers

AJ

--
Andrew J Reid
andre...@gmail.com
+64 21 905 975

[Jim Innes]

Hi AJ,

The ride home is between a close reach and a beat... I hate beating! 

I agree end boom sheeting is the preferred, but we have to deal with what we have. I'll certainly pass along my findings. But I would strongly suggest that all owners inspect their traveler attach bolts, shives and fittings. Change out the Lewmar traveler blocks to roller bearing Harkens or the like.

The boat performed very well, handled the summer North Pacific with ease...touch wood. Neptune was kind to Red Sheilla... and we are thankful.

Mods are required to the head sink drain, shower drain system. Some owners have gone with a separate sink thru hull. I may try adding another float senor to the shower pan that will activate when heeled.

Best regards,

Jim

[Greg]

B49er's,
Nice to hear of the various levels of experience and potential issues
based on use. Cruising on the Columbia River can be heavy air, and we
are coming about and gibing a lot...so far no traveller issues and
inspecting fasteners is OK as well.
I do reef quite early, main first as most here have described, I just
like to keep her on her feet as much as possible and I do like to work
the traveller. I will likely change to ball rollers to get a better
slide of the car...

Reading the postes of the off shore work from AJ and Jim made me think
of intended use/design/mass marketing and I must say the Oceanis
series has not been marketed as an ocean race machine by any means. As
such I am not surprised to hear of the upgrades desired/required for
smooth sailing on the open Pacific.

It then dawned on me that the First series is more likely to be out of
the box ready for such service...But it looks like the First 50 has
boom end main sheet and a single fixed center cockpit attachment, w/o
a traveller....go figure.

Anyway, thanks for sharing!
Greg

On Aug 15, 5:26 pm, Jim Innes <jgin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi AJ,
>
> The ride home is between a close reach and a beat... I hate beating!
> I agree end boom sheeting is the preferred, but we have to deal with what we have. I'll certainly pass along my findings. But I would strongly suggest that all owners inspect their traveler attach bolts, shives and fittings. Change out the Lewmar traveler blocks to roller bearing Harkens or the like.
> The boat performed very well, handled the summer North Pacific with ease...touch wood. Neptune was kind to Red Sheilla... and we are thankful.
>
> Mods are required to the head sink drain, shower drain system. Some owners have gone with a separate sink thru hull. I may try adding another float senor to the shower pan that will activate when heeled.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim
> On Aug 15, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Andrew Reid wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > HI, Jim
>
> > Thanks for the update - always nice to get some miles in.
>
> > Agree on reefing - these are quite tender boats, and benefit from early reefing. We tend to start with the main, go down to two reefs before reducing headsail. Balance seems better.
>
> > And the inner forestay is a must for offshore. Not only useful for hanging a storm jib, but also stops mast pumping in chop.
>
> > The traveller? We bust the bolts holding the block to the traveller car - new setup a bit beefier.
>
> > Boom sheeting? I'd argue that it's always best to sheet from the boom end, not the middle - faced with a choice, I'd forego traveller (which is a pretty short run on our boats anyway) over end boom sheeting. Don't know if the new arches should have a traveller - vang could do the work in any case. The reality is that mid boom sheeting precludes pushing the boat hard when its blowing - not necessarily a bad thing for a cruising boat. Bear in mind we have the standard rig, so a bit less sail area.
>
> > Most breeze we had on a recent Akld-Fiji was just over 40 kts, beam reaching. Down to two reefs and small furled headsail - storm jib not deployed in this instance. We have a very deep third reef in our new main, haven't used it in anger yet, but planning Fiji - Akld early November, so we'll see.
>
> > Congratulations on the race, its a great downwind slide!
>
> > Cheers
>
> > AJ
>

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/B49owners?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Andrew J Reid
> > andrew.a...@gmail.com

> > +64 21 905 975
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Beneteau 49/Oceanis 50 Owners" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to B49o...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to B49owners+...@googlegroups.com.

[Bob]

Dear Greg and Jim,

On my last trip to Shelter Island I broke the forward wheel/block on
the traveler, It was my fault as I did not see that the cleat was down
on the other side, however it did not take much pressure to blow it
apart. I should have a new block when i get home. I have recently had
problems with the main sail. It jammed coming out, we sent a person up
the mast and it corrected very easily. We have had the boat for three
years. The first sail was a problem as the grid on the sail was too
thick and it jammed consistently. Neils Pryde fixed that problem and
changed the battens. We have had two good years without problems.
This year we are using the boat a lot more and we have problems with
the sail. It sticks on the battens which I can get past by pulling
down on the end of the boom, however there is a part of the sail right
at the top that will not come out. Any thoughts. I wonder if the
halyard is tight enough?

Thanks, Bob, Braveheart, Branford CT

[Jim Innes]

Hi Bob,

Sorry I can't give you any ideas on the main furler, I have a conventional main on my boat... hopefully someone will sound in with a solution.

Regards,

Jim

[Bob]

Thanks Jim,

Greg did give me the basics that I knew but did not practice. I
sometimes wish I had a standard main.

Regards, Bob

> ...
>
> read more »

[Mohammad Bayegan]

The sail has stretched and needs to be recut.

I had the same problem with my previous Boat (B 461) .

Marengo B-49 #22

Galveston, Texas 

----- Original Message -----

From: Jim Innes

To: b49o...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:06 AM

Subject: Re: Beneteau 49/Oceanis 50 Owners Traveller Additional Thoughts.

[Andrew Reid]

Hi, Mohammed

We have the "Classic" main, and have recently replaced it with a new Doyle's sail from here in NZ. The original was a Quantam sail, and lasted reasonably well (around 16,000 nms).

Cheers

AJ

[Mohammad Bayegan]

Hi, AJ

The furling main stretches the sail in different directions every time its furled and unfurled as a result they get out of shape pretty fast.

I think the life of furling main is determined by the number of the time the sail is furled and unfurled rather than the age of the sail.

Regards

Mohammad