Help Finding Lost Family Name

[Bob Wyatt]

Hi,

My Great Great Grandfather was born on the Island of Pico in 1842. He worked as a Silver Miner in Virginia City Nevada in the 1860s. He fell in love with an Irish woman who refused to marry him unless he changed his name to something that sounded “more American”. So he changed his name to George Allen. We have a family full of “Allens” that would like to know the real family name. We have done an Ancestry DNA test and have linked to several 3rd cousins (Americans)that have lots of Portuguese names from that time period that could be related to him. Way too many to know where to start:

Vieira

Rodrigues

 Mattos

Martins

Cabral

Camelo

De Amaral

Moniz

Da Silva

Alveras

Alvernas

Amaral

Lima

Andrade

Serpa

Avila

Azevedo

Andrade

Gomes

Faria

Nunes

Silva

Machado

Cardoza

Luis

Since we are brand new to this world, we would appreciate any help.

Thank You,

Robert Wyatt

(My mother’s maiden name is “Allen”☺️)

Sent from my iPhone

[Bob Wyatt]

Here is a family photo of him

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2024, at 7:33 PM, Bob Wyatt <rpwy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

<image1.jpeg>

[Cheri Mello]

HI Bob W,

I'm sure all of us have the surnames you mentioned. Many family stories are true, but have a grain in there. I'd start with the assumption that it's really a corruption of something else. George is Jorge (pronounced zsuhorge. The J is kinda like the way Zsa Zsa Gabor pronounced the first "Zs" in her name. Just put an "uh" after the "Zs" in her name. Kinda like that).

You have their deaths, but you need to work back in time. You need their marriage and the birth and baptisms of all their kids.

How did you know he was born on Pico? Did you get the 1880, 1870, etc censuses on him?

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Bob Wyatt]

Thank You Cheri,

Both my Grandfather and Great Grandmother always said that he said that he was from Pico. Here are the 1870 & 1880 census. Any ideas where to go from here?  I was thinking maybe 

De Amaral,

Alveras,

Alvernas,

Amaral,

Andrade,

Avila,

Azevedo,

Or Andrade

Because they are, at least, somewhat close to Allen……..but I am just guessing.

Not much to go on huh?

Thanks again for your help!

Bob Wyatt

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2024, at 7:50 PM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi,

<image1.jpeg>

<image2.jpeg>

Sent from my iPhone

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[Scott Mello]

Hi Bob,

As Cheri noted, if you can find his marriage record it might list his original name or the names of his parents.  He may have applied for citizenship so you can check those records. If you can't determine his original last name with U.S. records, the best you can do is find a list of potential people and then see if you can find a DNA match that links to one of them.    

The Azores publishes an on-line database of church records by Island.  For Pico it is divided between three parishes; Lajes do Pico, Madalena & Sao Roque do Pico.

The records are grouped by type (Baptism, marriage, etc.) and by year.  I found this one for a Jorge, but without knowing his last name you can't be certain it is him .

The link to the record is here: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-CALHETANESQUIM-B-1825-1848/PIC-LJ-CALHETANESQUIM-B-1825-1848_item1/index.html?page=203.

I have some honey-do list to work on today, but I will search for more named Jorge later tonight.

Regards,

Scott Mello

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/58D7B5D2-4C70-4F6E-B564-680D95BF3100%40gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Um, Scott misspoke about the organization of the Azores or put the wrong word on it.

The Azores are comprised of 9 islands. Pico is the 3rd most populated island. It is divided into 3 councils (like an American county). Each council is comprised of multiple freguesias (freg - Z - ah -- freg rhymes with Greg). A freguesia is basically a village. Each freguesia has at least 1 church. Some have 2 churches. In the Catholic Church, these are called parishes and have a patron saint.

The attached record is for a Joze (old spelling - today it's Jose), not Jorge. Pico has 17 churches to search. I'm sure a Jorge born 1841-1843 can be found in almost all of them.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G9TGL7Bc7z7Ei6_3dOO9_gNr94JsMwXVY3wUduiigAgaA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

Wow! A lot to learn here! Thanks again for the info. Is there a website that I can search (hopefully translated to English 🤞) those Church records , in Pico, for Jorges baptized in 1842 & 1843? I’m thinking that if I can compile a list of likely matches, then I could triangulate with DNA tree/record possible matches on Ascestry.com

Thanks again!

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 6:55 AM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Um, Scott misspoke about the organization of the Azores or put the wrong word on it.

The Azores are comprised of 9 islands. Pico is the 3rd most populated island. It is divided into 3 councils (like an American county). Each council is comprised of multiple freguesias (freg - Z - ah -- freg rhymes with Greg). A freguesia is basically a village. Each freguesia has at least 1 church. Some have 2 churches. In the Catholic Church, these are called parishes and have a patron saint.

The attached record is for a Joze (old spelling - today it's Jose), not Jorge. Pico has 17 churches to search. I'm sure a Jorge born 1841-1843 can be found in almost all of them.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 6:18 AM Scott Mello <algarv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bob,

As Cheri noted, if you can find his marriage record it might list his original name or the names of his parents.  He may have applied for citizenship so you can check those records. If you can't determine his original last name with U.S. records, the best you can do is find a list of potential people and then see if you can find a DNA match that links to one of them.    

The Azores publishes an on-line database of church records by Island.  For Pico it is divided between three parishes; Lajes do Pico, Madalena & Sao Roque do Pico.

The records are grouped by type (Baptism, marriage, etc.) and by year.  I found this one for a Jorge, but without knowing his last name you can't be certain it is him .

<image.png>

The link to the record is here: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-CALHETANESQUIM-B-1825-1848/PIC-LJ-CALHETANESQUIM-B-1825-1848_item1/index.html?page=203.

I have some honey-do list to work on today, but I will search for more named Jorge later tonight.

Regards,

Scott Mello

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 12:29 AM Bob Wyatt <rpwy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank You Cheri,

Both my Grandfather and Great Grandmother always said that he said that he was from Pico. Here are the 1870 & 1880 census. Any ideas where to go from here?  I was thinking maybe 

De Amaral,

Alveras,

Alvernas,

Amaral,

Andrade,

Avila,

Azevedo,

Or Andrade

Because they are, at least, somewhat close to Allen……..but I am just guessing.

Not much to go on huh?

Thanks again for your help!

Bob Wyatt

Sent from my iPhone

<image0.jpeg>

<image1.jpeg>

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_FC1cKz%3DnuJnwxvkR7pqtr2w9PztX98gDRO9UdafKx5_g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Bob W,

Well, the Azores are part of Portugal. In Portugal, they speak Portuguese. So the records will be in Portuguese. You can learn to "read" the records and extract the important information and ask the list for anything else. Many of us are not native speakers and we started out just like you with no Portuguese language skills.

The records do follow a template for baptisms, marriages, and deaths over the 3 time periods. You are in the 2nd time period with your 1840s birth/baptism. We have the Azores GenWeb full of all kinds of helpful info.

Here is a how-to: https://www.azoresgenweb.org/Research_Aids/finding_roots0.html

You need to try to locate the marriage first - possibly both the civil one (in NV?) and the church record. Just jumping over to Pico and trying to find a Jorge is like looking for a needle in a haystack (Pico's population in 1849 was 31,000. Even if you say there were only 15,500 males, that's still a lot. Jorge was a fairly popular name). You need to narrow it down to the freguesia. The American research you have done this far is problematic. He's listed twice on the 1880 - one he's a cook and married (but no wife and kids), born 1841 and the other he's a miner born 1842 (with his wife and kids). Then you go to the 1870 and he's born 1835 and is a miner (with wife and kids). Focusing just on a birth year of 1842 and 1843 won't work. You really don't know when he was born.

Unfortunately, you can't triangulate on Ancestry. They don't provide a chromosome browser. You need to transfer to Family Tree DNA and My Heritage (and your matches would have to transfer as well) and then you can triangulate by using their tools or take the chromosome stuff and use DNA Painter to triangulate. You should transfer to both Family Tree DNA and My Heritage anyways, because you don't know where that match is who has the information on your freguesia.

I don't know if you are new to genealogy or not. If you are, starting with your immigrant ancestors from the Azores and Ireland is NOT the place to start. You need to work your American lines first and get the skill and experience in evaluating records before jumping over to your immigrant lines. Immigrant lines are much harder. And you are in the 1800s. America wasn't as nosey about their immigrants. They got much more nosey in the 1890s onwards.

Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/6D269AB1-7431-444E-ABDB-C327B305331C%40gmail.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

Lots of good suggestions: Thank You!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 8:56 AM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_HC7%3Dzq%2B3E2Lv3dv-BUJvuRXMqZ-cdBbNS%2BfjWoHqw0ng%40mail.gmail.com.

[themo...@aol.com]

I'm probably not the best person to chime in here, but I will.  When I started my research, I only knew that my father's family was from the Azores, no idea which island or even that there are 9 islands.  Through LOTS of US research, I was able to find the island (for each of my 4 great grandparents) then painstakingly through more research find the exact freguesia for each.  It takes time and patience.  

Nevada did not keep statewide marriage records until 1968 and Storey County, NV, did not keep marriage records until 1874.  It appears your George & Mary were already married at that time.  Possibly you can find the marriage record in the parish church records (married about 1865-66) to see if there is a birth location and/or parents named.  You can look for naturalization papers which at that time period could be in any court but there is no indication that he naturalized.  Also, I noticed that he was buried in the Catholic Cemetery; ask for all their records related to his burial.  If you know or can find the parish they attended in Virginia City, try to get their records of his death.  You need a Portuguese name to search and find YOUR Jorge (if that's his real name) in the Azores records.  

You can try working with your DNA matches that are Portuguese to narrow down your location.  My grandfather's family is from Pico and I have found matches to that family (on each of the DNA sites) but most are too distant to identify the MRCA.  You are not on my match list unless you are using a screen name that doesn't identify you.  Beware of MyHeritage match suggestions; almost every suggestion on my Portuguese side is incorrect as to how we match.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_HC7%3Dzq%2B3E2Lv3dv-BUJvuRXMqZ-cdBbNS%2BfjWoHqw0ng%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Seems like the church would be St. Mary of the Mountains:

https://www.onlinenevada.org/articles/st-mary-mountains-catholic-church

https://travelnevada.com/museums/saint-mary-in-the-mountains-catholic-church-museum/

And the church site itself: https://stmarysvc.org/

[Scott Mello]

Bob,

Here is one I believe is a Jorge - born 1842 in Pico.  Cheri please let us know if you concur.

The link to it:  http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851_item1/index.html?page=43

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/1175342217.7706475.1735409699295%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

That makes me feel a bit better that @ least I have his birth year & the island that he was born on: almost all (the problem is that there are just SO MANY of them)of the Portuguese DNA matches, on Ancestry from the 17 & 18 hundreds, are from Pico (a few from  Sao Miguel). All great suggestions! Thank You ALL SO much. Please keep them coming: the newbie appreciates them!

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 10:15 AM, 'themo...@aol.com' via Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/1175342217.7706475.1735409699295%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Scott Mello]

Here is another I believe is Jorge:

The Link: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851_item1/index.html?page=47

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/1175342217.7706475.1735409699295%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Yes, Scott, the first one is a Jorge born to a father with the surname of Rosa da Silveira Menezes. What brought you to the conclusion that Rosa da Silveira Menezes is Allen in America?

The 2nd one is a Jose. Not a Jorge.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G8YJfez08K9vQxKZUc%3DAUYYOc6HTJ5UVP%3DLDGOJpj05Ug%40mail.gmail.com.

[SUSAN MURPHY]

Hi Bob, 

You have some good clues to at least start your exciting search. The more you can get from US records is the best way as Cheri advises. 

I just wanted to chime in to tell you that it is very rare (in my humble opinion) to find Azorean immigrants that actually knew their birth date in this time period. Something is usually off and even the year of birth can be off…. So you need to widen your scope a little. 

I work on FindAGrave quite a bit and I am endlessly making notes in bios saying (they went by a certain birthdate but search of church records revealed they were actually born on another date” 

Just a fact that took me awhile to realize how common it is. When I find someone who was right on…. I usually am surprised and think “wow” :) 

Good luck, 

Susan Vargas Murphy 

On Dec 28, 2024, at 11:58 AM, Bob Wyatt <rpwy...@gmail.com> wrote:

That makes me feel a bit better that @ least I have his birth year & the island that he was born on: almost all (the problem is that there are just SO MANY of them)of the Portuguese DNA matches, on Ancestry from the 17 & 18 hundreds, are from Pico (a few from  Sao Miguel). All great suggestions! Thank You ALL SO much. Please keep them coming: the newbie appreciates them!

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/0315ADEC-5E31-4CA5-9D7A-F61466A82AE4%40gmail.com.

[Scott Mello]

I'm just finding any Jorge born at that time on Pico. The last name of Allen may not have been at all similar to his original family name. Of course I'm just guessing here. If he was from Pico, we will at least have a list. Just finished the chore list so I'm searching again.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_HgB8WVB%3DOghsb%3DgtGJ7iHNaxmB4Km8Tv9mjinumj7VxA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Mello]

Bob,

Here are twin boys (Gemeos) named Joao and Jorge - still in 1842:

The link: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851/PIC-SR-SANTALUZIA-B-1838-1851_item1/index.html?page=51

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/78AD00FD-A9B6-4E8C-AD74-37D2DD7AA442%40aol.com.

[Scott Mello]

Bob,

Another one - it's 2 pages:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/78AD00FD-A9B6-4E8C-AD74-37D2DD7AA442%40aol.com.

[Scott Mello]

One more I think - born in 1843

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/78AD00FD-A9B6-4E8C-AD74-37D2DD7AA442%40aol.com.

[Cheri Mello]

You're finding Joze, not Jorge.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G8DAK%2B6%3DFGgk86dQB%2BU6rLjMRcUssm1yYuD9cKC0SoACg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Mello]

Thanks for the help Cheri.  You might be correct but if you look at the letters closely there does appear to be a difference.

Here is the close-up of Jorge:

Here is a close-up of the same record with the name Joze:

The same person wrote this and there looks like a gap between the "r" and the "J" in the first one.  No gap in the second one.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_ENzBdwRFEk1AUJ_m1u6ZOt%3Dk8Jo4zSCUdnB22sV610-w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

Thank You Scott! Could you please include the family (sur) names of the Jorges that you find? I am having trouble reading the document that you sent. I would like to try cross referencing them with the DNA matches from that same time period.Thank you SO much!

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 2:26 PM, Scott Mello <algarv...@gmail.com> wrote:



One more I think - born in 1843

<image.png>

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G8DAK%2B6%3DFGgk86dQB%2BU6rLjMRcUssm1yYuD9cKC0SoACg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

No, it's Joze. Sorry!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G_1KvAmv9zxnEMkM4tUDkQEvH0TTpUnxg6tGtTZPyX9eQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Bob W,

Babies don't have surnames. They pick them later in life.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/9AEFB2E7-31BF-4AC1-9062-F4FA89DC705A%40gmail.com.

[Scott Mello]

okay - here is one from Madelena.  Cheri, let us know if you concur.  Parents seem to be Jorge Garcia da Souza and Maria Josefa .  This one was born in 1846

Here is the link: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1838-1860/PIC-MD-CANDELARIA-B-1838-1860_item1/index.html?page=75

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_HCrYOZr8epdAwFD%2BGMFmPVHk5J082fF_UsmAi0X2W1%2BA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Scott Mello]

Hi Bob,

I found a George and Mary Allen in the 1862 Nevada (territorial) Census.  Here is the link:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS53-93ZX-X?cat=615923&i=397

It shows George was 31 years old in 1862, so he would have been born in 1831.  Of course this could be a different couple.  Finding his original family name is the key to solving this puzzle.

Mary is on the next page:

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 6:24 PM Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_HCrYOZr8epdAwFD%2BGMFmPVHk5J082fF_UsmAi0X2W1%2BA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

Yes for sure: finding his original family name is the ultimate goal. It is definitely a different George and Mary Allen. We know that he was either born in 1840, 1841 or 1842 because he was 53 years old when he died in 1894. We know that this is his true death certificate because it was witnessed by John Lyman (his wife’s brother)

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 5:22 PM, Scott Mello <algarv...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi Bob,

I found a George and Mary Allen in the 1862 Nevada (territorial) Census.  Here is the link:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS53-93ZX-X?cat=615923&i=397

It shows George was 31 years old in 1862, so he would have been born in 1831.  Of course this could be a different couple.  Finding his original family name is the key to solving this puzzle.

<image.png>

<image.png>

Mary is on the next page:

<image.png>

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOcX7G9yEcp8KnZ%2BVeVaNe6QZ1Dom7G251fRhOTEGcPLVU1djQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Bob W,

You really need to READ the link that I provided for the "how to" from the Azores GenWeb:

https://www.azoresgenweb.org/Research_Aids/finding_roots0.html

Yes, it's over 30 pages. Print it out and read it as you can. Many are short sections. So much stuff is in that "how to." There's an explanation of primary vs secondary (and circumstantial) evidence. Please read it. A death certificate is  primary evidence for a death ONLY. Anything else obtained or deduced would be secondary evidence (including his age). He was dead. He couldn't state his age. Someone else stated it.

You continue to focus on the 1880 census only (it appears he was enumerated twice). Those ages agree. You continue to ignore the 1870 census where he is born in 1835 or something. You really don't have a birth year for him. It's really just 1830s to early 1840s.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/A123394C-4315-4F16-9BE0-539F23FD24AF%40gmail.com.

[Bob Wyatt]

OK: will do .

Thank You

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 6:06 PM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi Bob W,

You really need to READ the link that I provided for the "how to" from the Azores GenWeb:

https://www.azoresgenweb.org/Research_Aids/finding_roots0.html

Yes, it's over 30 pages. Print it out and read it as you can. Many are short sections. So much stuff is in that "how to." There's an explanation of primary vs secondary (and circumstantial) evidence. Please read it. A death certificate is  primary evidence for a death ONLY. Anything else obtained or deduced would be secondary evidence (including his age). He was dead. He couldn't state his age. Someone else stated it.

You continue to focus on the 1880 census only (it appears he was enumerated twice). Those ages agree. You continue to ignore the 1870 census where he is born in 1835 or something. You really don't have a birth year for him. It's really just 1830s to early 1840s.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 5:39 PM Bob Wyatt <rpwy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes for sure: finding his original family name is the ultimate goal. It is definitely a different George and Mary Allen. We know that he was either born in 1840, 1841 or 1842 because he was 53 years old when he died in 1894. We know that this is his true death certificate because it was witnessed by John Lyman (his wife’s brother)

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_H%2BdSgvp5b3qEB7OPsZegyrCzy9LhGpRPkbp_pzgdH0oQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Boyd McKee Kitchen]

Bob,

I'm on a similar quest to find a great-grandfather who I think may have been from Pico. My recommendation is to follow the suggestions Cheri gives you. Likely, you will never find him in Pico records unless you learn his portuguese name, parents names, and or a sibbling's name and the parish he came from, as well as a better idea of his birth year.  DNA matches might help, but almost everyone from Pico is related to everyone else in some way so simply finding a common ancestor among your matches may not work. Probably many of your DNA matches are related to each other through more than one common ancestor, but not all through the same one. This group can help you find and understand the records, but you need to narrow your search to have a reasonable chance of success.

Boyd Kitchen

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[Bob Wyatt]

Thanks for the input. I will do some research up in Virginia City, Nevada. I REALLY appreciate all the knowledge here. Thank You All.

Bob

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2024, at 8:25 PM, Boyd McKee Kitchen <boyd.ki...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Cheri Mello]

Bob W,

Boyd is right about everybody being related to everybody else. Using autosomal DNA (the Ancestry test) without a surname, his parents' names, siblings, etc is as hard as hunting down every Jorge on the island (and there were around 15,000 men at that time period).

I'd use Y-DNA here in this case while you work on getting to Virginia City, Nevada. For those who don't know, Y-DNA is passed down from the father to his sons only (makes them baby boys). These baby boys grow up and pass it down to their sons only. So basically, it follows the target surname - in Bob W's case, that's Allen. It may help reveal the Portuguese surname - maybe.

The censuses showed that George Allen had at least 5 sons with at least 3 living past childhood. Trace ALL of them to adulthood. Get ALL their kids. Then ALL their grandkids and so on. Your focus is on the boys whose surname is Allen. You can get the spouse for the girls, but they don't pass down the Y chromosome. However, you may meet a family researcher from a female line that may have more info than you do. So I'd keep my eye on them. And if they are the family researcher, they may know an Allen and get him to Y-DNA test for you.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Cheri Mello]

Repost for Bob Wyatt,rpwyatt67 at gmail.com

<<Sounds good. We’re up in Nevada for the next few days, while the kids tend to the ranch. I’ll see what I can find. George Allen had 3 sons (Joseph, John & his oldest William: my great grandfather). Only William and Joseph were married and only William had children (one died at age 2: May Francis & the Other is my Grand Father: William Francisc Patrick Allen).

I will do more research on George Allen and Mary Lyman in Virginia City

Thanks Again,

Bob>>

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Cheri is right,  If it is possible to get a Y-DNA test match to work that is one way to find the family name, providing you know your male line will take it back to Pico, (If for some reason your male line will not take you back to your ancestor perhaps a cousin or uncle work). The other way is to work every record source in the US with the marriage record being the best bet or a name change record.  Using the shotgun approach by looking for a record with a Jorge in Pico will not produce a positive result.

Rick

Richard Francis Pimentel

Lee, NH

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores