Leaking Ports and Stansions

[jpr55]

On my Allmand 31 six of the opening ports leak. Can anyone please
tell me the best way to seal them and keep them from leaking? Also
how do you remove them? Should I take them out and seal them with
5200? Or should I use silicon? Also do they seal from the inside or
outside? Any help would be much appreciated.

Additionally my stansions are starting to leak. I see a screw or bolt
going through the deck but can not get to the backside. What is the
proven method of sealing these? Is there a nut on the backside or are
these just screwed to the deck?

Thanks,
John

[Doug Caron]

The ports are sealed in from the outside I would recommend 4200 not
5200 My ports are black so I used black 4200 I have had to replace
three of mine not due to leaks but due to overtightening and the plastic
broke

Stancions are through bolted The nuts are on the inside behind either
your teak or the cloth rug material, you just have to dig I know this
as I rebed some of mine last year and hope to finish project this year.

Doug Caron
Island Rose

[Lee]

Hi John,

This information is found on the Beckson site. http://www.beckson.com/installport.html They recommend 100% silicone. 5200 is an adhesive and not a sealant. 5200 is best used to bond materials and is not the best sealer.

One not, the side opening hatches have a trim ring that is sealed to the outside hull. It is removable from the outside and not attached to the section that goes through the port opening. If you remove the screws on the inside the port can be pulled into the cabin and the trim ring will have to be carefully removed from the outside.

Beckson Info below - Note they are now using barrel bolts which the older like your do not have.

Hint #2: - Easy Clean Up

Prior to using the sealant, dry mount the window. Using a wet a rag or sponge and liquid dish soap (non abrasive/no bleach), wipe around the outside where the cabin wall meets the trim ring. The soap will prevent the silicone from sticking.

Silicone will need 2 to 3 days to properly cure in the summer months and 1 week in low humidity. Refer to the manufacturer's recommendations for best results.

Clean up consists of running a single edged razor blade along the outer edge of the trim ring once the silicone has cured. Do not scrape the trim ring with the razor blade. Use a finger nail if necessary. This will make clean up easier and prevent black eyes from forming on the gel coat (excess silicone wiped into the gel coat will stain) after many years of use.

Choice of Sealant:

There are many brands of caulk, adhesive and sealant available in your marine chandlery or hardware store, but be wary, not all are like. Many are for specific applications and may contain solvents that are destructive to thermoplastics. Chemical solvents should not be used for clean up.

Beckson recommends 100% silicone sealant only.

Beckson recommends 100% silicone sealant only. Availability of silicone varies regionally. Please contact your sealant manufacturer for the most up to date information with regard to materials and compatibility. Silicone has been around for nearly 50 years without sign of failure. Most other caulks and sealants fail after 10 years. When a port is installed properly, silicone works best for years of enjoyment.

Sanding previously caulked areas:

Previously caulked or sealed areas must be sanded in order to remove the old caulk. If not removed, a strong bond will not occur. Surfaces may appear to be free of caulk to the eye, but residue may still be present on the gel coat. Sand lightly with 220 grit paper to prepare for the silicone sealant.

Sealing the window:

Check the gap around the spigot and cabin wall to make sure there is 1/8" clearance around the port to fill with sealant. If not, file the edge around the hole to provide enough space. This will also help widen the hole to fit the tip of the caulking gun in the gap.

Insert the fastener bolts and dab a small amount of silicone in the fastener hole from the outside. Do not over fill. Space must be left for the barrel nut sleeve.

Generously seal around the spigot completely filling the gap around the window. Use a popsicle stick or tongue depressor and jam the sealant into the gap around the port. Fill the gap completely.

If using flush mount barrel nuts, squeeze sealant into the fastener holes from the outside, and install fasteners. The excess will squeeze out of the top. Fully tighten. If any curve is present see "Installation Curved in Cabin Walls".

Sealing the Trim Ring: - Truss head barrel nut installation.

Partially fill holes for the fasteners with dabs of silicone. Do not fill completely, or you may have difficulty attaching the barrel nut. Lay a generous 3/8" bead of sealant along the inside edge of the trim ring. For best adhesion, spread to fully cover the surface. Insert the barrel nuts and carefully place the trim ring. Tighten the barrel nuts until you begin to see the sealant squeeze out. DO NOT TIGHTEN COMPLETELY. Over tightening will squeeze out all the sealant leaving no gasket which is critical for thermal expansion and contraction
Hint #3 Proper Curing

Leave the last 1 to 2 turns until after curing is completed. By not tightening completely, enough sealant is left in place to provide a strong seal and a gasket for climatic changes. DO NOT WIPE OFF EXCESS AT THIS TIME. (Also see Hint#2 Easy Clean Up)

Sealing the Trim Ring: - Flush mount barrel nut installation.

Dab the tops of the flush mount barrel nuts with silicone. Lay a 3/8" bead of sealant along the inside edge of the trim ring. Carefully press the trim ring onto the flat surface. If the surface is curved, see next section. Press down until the sealant begins to squeeze out and stop. DO NOT PRESS DOWN COMPLETELY. (See Hint#2 & #3 Easy Clean Up & Proper Curing)

~ ~̃ ~ _/) ~~̃ ☼ -Lee

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[John....@emerson.com]

Thanks Doug

I will try the 4200.

Thanks again
John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

----- Original Message -----
From: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>
To: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed Jan 27 21:46:02 2010
Subject: Re: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions

The ports are sealed in from the outside I would recommend 4200 not
5200   My ports are black so I used black 4200    I have had to replace
three of mine not due to leaks but due to overtightening and the plastic
broke

Stancions are through bolted    The nuts are on the inside behind either
your teak or the cloth rug material, you just have to dig    I know this
as I rebed some of mine last year and hope to finish project this year.

Doug Caron
Island Rose





jpr55 wrote:

> On my Allmand 31 six of the opening ports leak.  Can anyone please
> tell me the best way to seal them and keep them from leaking?  Also
> how do you remove them?  Should I take them out and seal them with
> 5200?  Or should I use silicon?  Also do they seal from the inside or
> outside?  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Additionally my stansions are starting to leak.  I see a screw or bolt
> going through the deck but can not get to the backside.  What is the
> proven method of sealing these?  Is there a nut on the backside or are
> these just screwed to the deck?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>  

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[John....@emerson.com]

Lee

Thanks much. I will giver her a try this weekend.

Thanks again
John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

----- Original Message -----
From: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>
To: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>

> Subject: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions
>
> On my Allmand 31 six of the opening ports leak.  Can anyone please
> tell me the best way to seal them and keep them from leaking?  Also
> how do you remove them?  Should I take them out and seal them with
> 5200?  Or should I use silicon?  Also do they seal from the inside or
> outside?  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Additionally my stansions are starting to leak.  I see a screw or bolt
> going through the deck but can not get to the backside.  What is the
> proven method of sealing these?  Is there a nut on the backside or are
> these just screwed to the deck?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To post to this group, send email to All...@googlegroups.com
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> unsub...@googlegroups.com

[John....@emerson.com]

Lee

Any info on the light port?  I need to replace the rubber trim seal around the glass. I am told these are the non-opening ports and are called light ports. There are two on each side of the boat.

Thanks

[ISAILLI]

I am doing the same repair to all the ports but I have found that the
core has rotted also the stbd chain plate has leaked enough to cause
the aft side of the locker to rot. I am going to cut out the inside
deck skin under the ports and chain plates in one piece replace the
core and rebond the skin
It's really important to apply thickened epoxy in place of the wood
core around the ports enough that when the fasteners are installed
they dont go through any wood core just epoxy.

[Bill Cornpropst]

I hate to disagree with Doug, but I would NOT use 5200 or 4200 on
ports or hatches. That adhesive is made to be used below the water
line. If you use it on ports and hatches you will never get it off and
you will break the plastic frames trying to remove them in the future.
Use a good marine silicone sealant. It comes in clear, white and
black. This is what Pompannette recommends as well. I speak from
experience on this.

My 2 cents----Bill

--

[John....@emerson.com]

Thanks Bill

Any input on the seal around the portlights. It is a rubber seal that goes around the glass. I can not find it anywhere.

Thanks
John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

----- Original Message -----
From: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>
To: all...@googlegroups.com <all...@googlegroups.com>

[Bill Cornpropst]

John,

Try this site and maybe look for contact information. I haven't looked at it as my ports are GRAY and come from Pompannette.

www.beckson.com/installport.html

Hope this helps,

Bill

[John....@emerson.com]

Thanks will do!

John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

---

From: all...@googlegroups.com
To: all...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu Jan 28 10:21:17 2010

[Lee]

 

Hi John,

 

    Here is a link to a company that makes custom ports.  They might have what you need.  I got a quote for a CAL that I owned in the past. 

 

-Lee

 

  ^~ ~̃ ^~  _/)  _~~̃  ☼  -Lee

 

 

 

[David Cibic]

John,
 
I am in process of replacing the 4 fixed Portlights on Allmand 31.  The more research I did, the more options became available.
 
Check this Users Group seach for Ocean Dynamics ( or link below ) as one packed up units and sent the in whole for rebuild.
http://groups.google.com/group/allmand/browse_thread/thread/c1028786574224db/eb32e520f2021798?lnk=gst&q=dynamics#eb32e520f2021798
 
Another sailor ( on a Tartan ) replaced dated aluminum frames wth modern look surface mounted windows; he used closed-cell neoprene foam-rubber gasket sheet which seems to be gaining popularity.  They also discuss plexi types.
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance-articles/33774-surface-mounted-ports.html
 
Beckson seems to like Dow 795 for mounting ports, but again a structure glass mounting sealant that is good when no mechanical clamping involved; removal may be tough.
 
For one set of light frames, I through bolted 2" stainless bolts across inner and outer frames for a secure clamp on Butyl rubber tape( stays sticky ) fond at your RV stores or ebay http://motors.shop.ebay.com/__?_from=R40&_trksid=m39&_nkw=butyl+tape.  My frames were only secured to cabin house with wood screws and I had dig out and foam in detoriorated wall core and seal off with Interlux watertite epoxy putty.
 
For the other set, I fabricated an 1/8" aluminum plate in the frame dimensions to mount slider opening ports.... way more hours in these ports sandblasting, painting etc than I care to count..
 
Good luck with your project.  Not sure about the rubber gasket as I am screwing plexi to fames and relying on sealant under and around screws.
 
David
Long Beach, CA

---

Subject: Re: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:12:29 -0500
From: John....@emerson.com
To: all...@googlegroups.com

[Rex Oldford]

John, the leaking stanchions are easy to fix but you must get at the nut under the deck to remove the bolt.  My 35 doesn't restrict access to the nuts.  They are not screwed to the deck.  I use 4200 to seal them if I'm not using Butyl, but that's a debate for another day.  5200 is an adhesive sealant, and you are not trying to glue down the stanchion or glue in the bold.  The strength of 5200, and difficulty of removing it make it a poor choice in my opinion, however it is an excellent product and will stop the leaks.  You must remove the bolt and stanchion first.

As for the leaking ports, they are sealed from the outside.  The white trim around the ports on the outside is glued to the cabin with 5200, and brutal to remove.  You must be very careful when removing them otherwise you break it.  The 5200 can be dissolved/softened with a product from 3M, that will make it easier to cut.  The best thing to do to reinstall it is to seal with 4200 and through bolt it, as per Beckson's directions on the website. 

Wrecks

[Bob Sodergren]

There are so many different silicone products, made for different applications, I thought I would add a data point for one product that I know to work well.

 

Wanderlust was delivered around Thanksgiving of 1996, and was previously owned, since new, by my brother.  She is an Almand 35 that spent her first 13 years on the Florida panhandle, and has spent the past 13+ on Puget Sound.

 

Sometime in the couple of years before I assumed ownership, all the portlights were resealed with a GE silicone called SilPruf, made specifically for glazing applications.  It may take some searching to find a supplier, but I've never had a leak.

Bob Sodergren

 

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Allmand-u...@googlegroups.com

[John....@emerson.com]

Thanks very much. I will be on the boat tomorrow and start looking at the stansions.

Thanks again

John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

---

From: all...@googlegroups.com
To: all...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed Jan 27 23:08:43 2010
Subject: Re: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions

John, the leaking stanchions are easy to fix but you must get at the nut under the deck to remove the bolt.  My 35 doesn't restrict access to the nuts.  They are not screwed to the deck.  I use 4200 to seal them if I'm not using Butyl, but that's a debate for another day.  5200 is an adhesive sealant, and you are not trying to glue down the stanchion or glue in the bold.  The strength of 5200, and difficulty of removing it make it a poor choice in my opinion, however it is an excellent product and will stop the leaks.  You must remove the bolt and stanchion first.

As for the leaking ports, they are sealed from the outside.  The white trim around the ports on the outside is glued to the cabin with 5200, and brutal to remove.  You must be very careful when removing them otherwise you break it.  The 5200 can be dissolved/softened with a product from 3M, that will make it easier to cut.  The best thing to do to reinstall it is to seal with 4200 and through bolt it, as per Beckson's directions on the website. 

Wrecks

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 5:02 AM, jpr55 <john....@emerson.com> wrote:

On my Allmand 31 six of the opening ports leak.  Can anyone please
tell me the best way to seal them and keep them from leaking?  Also
how do you remove them?  Should I take them out and seal them with
5200?  Or should I use silicon?  Also do they seal from the inside or
outside?  Any help would be much appreciated.

Additionally my stansions are starting to leak.  I see a screw or bolt
going through the deck but can not get to the backside.  What is the
proven method of sealing these?  Is there a nut on the backside or are
these just screwed to the deck?

Thanks,
John

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[John....@emerson.com]

Thanks Bob

I will look into it.

Thanks again
John
John P. Rudio
706-949-2819(C)
706-652-0066(O)
706-652-0006(F)

---

From: all...@googlegroups.com
To: all...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu Jan 28 15:52:09 2010

Subject: Re: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions

> Subject: [Allmand] Leaking Ports and Stansions
>
> On my Allmand 31 six of the opening ports leak.  Can anyone please
> tell me the best way to seal them and keep them from leaking?  Also
> how do you remove them?  Should I take them out and seal them with
> 5200?  Or should I use silicon?  Also do they seal from the inside or
> outside?  Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Additionally my stansions are starting to leak.  I see a screw or bolt
> going through the deck but can not get to the backside.  What is the
> proven method of sealing these?  Is there a nut on the backside or are
> these just screwed to the deck?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> --

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> unsub...@googlegroups.com

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> http://groups.google.com/group/Allmand
> Visit the Allmand Sail site at http://www.allmandsail.com

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[Mike H]

Just want to thank you as I address ports in my A31. As Hank seeks to pass this group on I hope we can capture all these valuable owner experiences to fellow Allmand.