Anyone heard about Richard?

[Ram]

Anyone heard about Richard?

Was thinking about him and you guys today.

Anyone care to start talking bout nutting?

[Gary]

Not recently. Anyone?

I like coconut.

[Dot]

I heard from Nicole 31st October so its a bit out of date....
she said
Richard"s health has improved a bit. He has been going back and forth
from the nursing home to the hospital where he is actually. His lungs
are still not very strong so he is always fighting an infection. With
the help of a lot of medication, he is much more alert. The
challenge for him is to stay well without anitibiotics. He was
decannulated at the end of August so he is able to speak. His voice
is getting stronger and clearer. His physical therapy has been
constantly interrupted because of the infections, so he still has a
lot of work to do to gain strength and get ready for prostheses.

Seasons greetings all,
Linda

> > Anyone care to start talking bout nutting?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Ram]

Thanks Linda,

I'll try to remember to call Nicole in the next day or two and post an
update.

Happy Holidays to All!

[Mark Carpenter]

Richard must be in pretty bad shape if he hasn't even been able to
make it to a computer by now. Poor guy must be going nuts of boredom.

"Anyone care to start talking about nutting?"

Question: is there any real point to realization/moksha if we are
already THAT and our bodies drop away after death anyway? Or do we
have reincarnation/rebirth to deal with?

For Ram Ram Hari Ram do you personally believe in reincarnation? If so
what evidence do you have besides Hindu lore and what the Masters have
said.

Personally I have some weird childhood thoughts about "enjoying and
experiencing life properly" as if I was on vacation. Not sure if this
amounts to anything. Also I have noticed what my mind thinks about
when I'm sleeping and would not be surprised if this gross jibber
jabber lives on in some way.

[Sandeep-Kuber Technologies]

On 12/19/2010 10:48 AM, Mark Carpenter wrote:

"Anyone care to start talking about nutting?"

Question: is there any real point to realization/moksha if we are
already THAT and our bodies drop away after death anyway?

It being the point, there is no point to it.

 Or do we have reincarnation/rebirth to deal with?

Do you have a birth right now to deal with?

For Ram Ram Hari Ram do you personally believe in reincarnation? If so
what evidence do you have besides Hindu lore and what the Masters have
said.

Personally I have some weird childhood thoughts about "enjoying and
experiencing life properly" as if I was on vacation. Not sure if this
amounts to anything. Also I have noticed what my mind thinks about
when I'm sleeping and would not be surprised if this gross jibber
jabber lives on in some way.

"If no self to erase, is already the apriori condition, then what is it that reincarnates"
asked the "intelligent" seeker.

Replied the Master, busy checking emails on a Blackberry....

 "Neurosis".

[Ram]

> Question: is there any real point to realization/moksha if we are
> already THAT and our bodies drop away after death anyway?

Liberation is only relevant in relation to bondage, or more accurately
the imagination of bondage, which is rooted in the belief of an
individual entity. Once the imagination of bondage, or an individual
to be bound is relinquished, the imagination of liberation also has no
relevance. As long as the belief in being a body/mind organism, or an
individual personality is held (and valued), that is what is called
bondage, so accordingly, expedient teaching about liberation from
these erroneous unneccesary concepts is given. When it is clearly seen
that such notions are not true, and are not necessary for life, they
are naturally relinquished quite easily. The degree to which one takes
to be true, values, and feels that such notions are needed, is the
degree in direct proportion to which such concepts are held or
relinquished. The simple answer is be relentless in your investigation
into your Self nature, and you will know directly that birth and
rebirth are imaginings in a dream only relevant to dream characters
identified with dream bodies and dream minds(mind meaning collectively
wishes, desires, prana, etc.).

> Or do we have reincarnation/rebirth to deal with?

The question is based upon at least two or three fundamental faulty
premises. The question reveals a lack of thorough investigation on the
part of the questioner. Who is "we"? What is born and what dies? Who
is the doer/dealer? If you go to the root and discover your true
identity, these questions are automatically resolved and naturally
don't arise. If one's true identity, or true Self, is clearly seen and
recognized, even if such questions do arise as thoughts appearing and
disappearing in consciousness, there is no hook, or quality of
limitation felt, or sense of reality lent, in relation to them. See
deeply and completely that your true identity is changeless non-
conceptual existence. From that realization, I assure you that you
will not be interested in imaginings about rebirth.

> For Ram Ram Hari Ram do you personally believe in reincarnation? If so
> what evidence do you have besides Hindu lore and what the Masters have
> said.

Again, the question is based upon faulty premise. Your question is
framed in the context of two people having a conversation with the
underlying assumption that that is the reality of what is. It is
difficult for me to answer from "personal" belief when I don't
actually believe in the person. For purpose of conversation, some
words like these must be used, but don't be fooled that the words are
what is being spoken about, or the one speaking them can be
comprehended in your conception. That being said, I can use an analogy
of subtlety and grossness in consciousness which is based in
experiential understanding.

Think about a light, a brilliance which is so intensely bright and so
subtle that not even the subtlest concept can come close to seeing it,
let alone the mind or physical eyes that are much farther removed from
it downline in density and grossness. Physical light is practically as
gross as mud to this most brilliant light as actual physical mud is to
physical light. A way to think about this light is that it is energy
which is vibrating at such a high frequency that it could almost be
considered still. This light is vibrating at such a high rate that
extremely subtle thoughts such as "I AM" or "something like this
brilliant light exists" are dense like mountains in comparison. Those
subtle concepts, which are seen to be gross objects in contrast to
that pure light, are vibrating nonetheless vibrating at an incredibly
high frequency. The "I Am" concept is itself incredibly subtle and is
the knowing radiance from which all the other concepts and objects are
seen to be vibrating at much slower frequencies and intensities of
energy. That beingness of "I Am" is incredibly pure at its source, but
as it asserts itself, it becomes increasingly gross as the objective
universe spins out downstream from its energy and is known in its
knowledge. The focus of this knowingness can be directed in and upward
or downward (or the words inwardly and externally could also be used)
direction. Upwardly the knowingness is directed towards the source,
the unconceivable brilliance, or downwardly it is directed to
increasing density and ignorance.

Another analogy can be used of a tree. For purposes of this
illustration, forget about the upper trunk and branches, leaves, etc.
Although the analogy could be used in that direction as well. So, you
have the main trunk and rroots that have come out of a seed, from
there there are a few main roots that extend downwards, these are the
subtle concepts. From those begin to grow many more offshoot roots,
and from them more and more offshoot roots continue to grow and spawn
out exponentially. At the very bottom of the root structure you have
such a tangled mess of intermingled roots that are so densly entangled
they seem to be one solid mass that has no resemblence to the original
subtle roots or the original seed. So, back to the light. As the
concepts become more gross and dense, accordingly, the world
appearance also seems to become more solid and "real," as the solidity
and grossness of the world is in direct proportion to the imagined
solidity and reality of the concepts.

Ok, it's getting late, so I'm going to wrap it up for now. If you can
sense what is being pointed to, this directly speaks to the questions
about rebirth and birth/death, individuals, solidity of the world,
etc. If consciousness is directed into the quagmire of ignorance and
gross conceptual existence, then the concepts of birth and death and
individuals, etc., all seem to be very real and valid. If the
consciousness is directed towards the subtle concepts and the non-
conceptual, a seeming shift in identity (your identity hasn't really
shifted, only the lack of identifying with what is not your identity)
begins to take place which is really more like a metaphorical lifting
of veils or shedding of transparent conceptual layers of the onion.
This is what is in some circles referred to as the shedding of vasanas
or samskaras. Some simply call it "neti, neti," Who am I? Not this,
not this. Not even the subtle radiant knowledge that is the beingness
of "I Am." When that final layer is left off, what can be said about
the individual who has not been conceived of?

> Personally I have some weird childhood thoughts about "enjoying and
> experiencing life properly" as if I was on vacation. Not sure if this
> amounts to anything. Also I have noticed what my mind thinks about
> when I'm sleeping and would not be surprised if this gross jibber
> jabber lives on in some way.

It only lives on by the interest you have in it, the energy you give
to it, and the value you place on it.

What if you gave it no interest, energy, or value? Then instead of
being asleep, you would be at peaceful rest.

All of this talk of sleep is making my eyes droopy.

Nice to see some posts from old friends and talk about nothing for
awhile.

I've been kind of busy with family holiday stuff, but calling Nicole
is on my to-do list for tomorrow.

Sorry about the long winded prattling for those with short attention
span. Hope the light didn't get too shrouded by the words. And sorry
for any typos, I didn't feel like proofing at this hour.

~*~

[Mahakali]

Mark Carpenter

Question: is there any real point to realization/moksha if we are
already THAT and our bodies drop away after death anyway?

Is there any point in chasing realization or moksha if we are already
That? Does it not sound as another possible "thing-to-do" in my or
your list for it to be accomplished within a set time and in a certain
space? Does "effort" detract or add to liberation? It is said that, in
Advaita, "less" is more and not viceversa. Pondering over "to do" or
"not to do" something which is going to add something i.e. value to
the person, completely shadows the principle of "spontaneity" which
implies the lack of a "me" or a "thinker".

I think the question is "does chasing realization got anything to do
with what we already are"? Does the activity of the individual has
anything to do with the essence of beingness?

Personally, I believe that the only point to realization or moksha had
some sort of point or validity only to those Masters or enlightened
entities who had seen a point in it and, according to their reports,
as a misterious consequence of what they "did" (they also claim they
were not there to do anything),then, Self realization happened to
them. Definetly, it is their realization/teaching and not mine and it
can be of any use only to them and not to "me".

Best wishes


Kali

[Ram]

Hi folks, I just got off the phone with Nicole a few minutes ago. I
took a few notes, so here's the latest on Richard...

From July to November he was back and forth quite a bit from the
hospital to the nursing home.

He had pnuemonia a couple of times which put him back in hospital and
more recently tracheitis, which is apparently an infection caused by
the tracheotomy.

She said that he was doing quite a bit better in November and was
showing some signs of progress and had a nice time with family for
Thanksgiving. He was being fitted for prosthetics and had started some
physical therapy and was making some progress, but it seems that the
staff was getting somewhat frustrated that he wasn't making as good of
progress as hoped. He was getting a little stronger, but wasn't
getting much stronger and was still not able to get in and out of the
wheelchair by himself.

Nicole said that he is able to speak a little bit now, but is still
having problems breathing sometimes and is having to re-learn how to
swallow. He is not being tube fed, but can only take puree'd foods
with some difficulty, and he still needs suction to help clear saliva
from his throat and mouth.

Now the bad news. He has been quite sick for the past week or so, and
is even worse today. The doctors aren't sure what is wrong, but he has
been constantly vomitting for the past two days. He was in for a
stomach x-ray when I called. It seems that they think he may have some
sort of virus or something, but they really don't know why he has
taken a turn for the worse. It sounds like he is having a rough go of
it with the constant vomitting.

She said that it is planned for him to be moved from the nursing home
to his own house on January 11th as that is when the insurance runs
out for his nursing home coverage. His son has made a room for him and
they are hoping that they can manage to care for him at home.

It sounds like in the past week that he has been getting weaker again,
which is being complicated by not being able to keep any food down.
All in all, it doesn't sound like a very good time for him.

That pretty much sums up what she had to say.

I told her that everyone at AN sends their love and best wishes, and
wished their family all the best for the holidays.

She said that she appreciated the call, and was sure that Richard
would be happy to hear that folks were thinking about him.

Sorry for any shortcomings in my reporting. I've never really been
very good at stuff like this.

Regards,

David

[empty2]

Thanks for the update, Ram.

Perhaps this is as much an answer to Mark's question as to what's the
point as anything else.

Season's greetings and love to Richard and family, and all.

Patrick

[Anandanand]

Thanks for the update Ram.

[Mahakali]

Thank you for the update, Ram.

Season's greetings to all.

Kali

[Mark Carpenter]

Thanks for the replies guys and the update on Richard.

[Ram]

Does what was said late in the night make sense? Are you liberated
from the notion of rebirth?

How much time does it take?

[Gary]

Thanks for the update. Much appreciated.

Gary

[Mark Carpenter]

Hi Ram,

Your post was really excellent, I did a cursory reading before but
wanted to go over it more thoroughly to do it justice.

I think you hit the nail on the head right here with...

> birth and
> rebirth are imaginings in a dream only relevant to dream characters
> identified with dream bodies and dream minds(mind meaning collectively

Your light metaphor is descriptive/instructive poetry actually! I can
really see what is going on here.

What is going on is sort of like a tide of dreaming that I really have
nothing to do with.

Very clear too about the roots of the tree.

I think what has been going on with me is I having been trying to have
my cake and eat it too. Chase after the world, and expect the whole
"realization" thing to work out later. Thus forgetting any progress
i've made. It's hard to keep motivated about this except for love of
Truth. There is no prize at the end of this, no becoming somebody and
you have to give up some of your most cherished illusions (thoughts of
my kids existence and dieing having lead a half assed unfulfilled
life).

Please do keep prattling on even if you do not get much feedback all
the time. This knowledge is the real jewel in life even if it doesn't
always seem tangible.

Thank you to Sandeep and Mahakali for your input as well.

Merry Christmas everybody

[Ram]

Hi Mark, thanks for the reply. Accordingly, I'll prattle a little
more...

>I think what has been going on with me is I having been trying to have
>my cake and eat it too. Chase after the world, and expect the whole
>"realization" thing to work out later. Thus forgetting any progress
>i've made.

I think that every spiritual seeker or aspirant has this experience
and can relate to what you are saying. In some ways, spiritual
progress is pretty much like any other habit in life. There is one
aspect of spiritual progress which is noticed as a shift in identity,
or who you take yourself to be, and another aspect of progress is that
the shift in identity is reflected in your life and mind. Get such a
good taste of your true identity that you couldn't conceive of
forgetting. You could say that there is a milestone or point of no
return when you have investigated and seen your true nature so clearly
that you cannot really forget such progress.

However, even some saints have cautioned that one who has recognized
their true identity can forget by getting caught up in a tsunami of
concepts tied to taking the world to be true and becoming re-
misidentified with being a body/mind. I did not really believe this
was possible until I had seen if for myself in some who I have known
who have seen very clearly. The veils had been rent assunder, so to
speak. But they forgot. They started to believe the concepts that
appear in consciousness and began to reidentify with personality
attributes and bodiy and mental habits, and began to experience the
world as that dense root structure that was so thick that they got
into the habit of believing that the spiritual depth they had touched
was imagination, and they began living with the beliefs that they are
individuals and the world is a dense solid place. This is the
forgetting. This is the definition of ignorance, and the meaning of
downfall.

The mind is a creature of habit. It can be a creature of good habits
or bad habits.(There really is no good or bad, but for purpose of this
conversation, what are being referred to as good habits are habits
which reinforce your true sense of identity, the unreality of concepts
and the world, shining as the radiance of your true nature, etc., and
bad habits are those that are along the lines of taking concepts of
limitiation to be true, creating dualities in the mind, acting in
unproductive, and even destructive ways, etc.) It is a fact that the
mind tends towards habits, and that the consciousness that is aware of
the patterns and habits of the mind, can also recognize and choose
which habits to pick up and which to leave off. It's not a complicated
principle. It is actually quite easy to recognize what is being
pointed out. It is when we are ignorant of, or don't consciously
recognize the habits of the mind, consciousness is basically oblivious
to the prevailing habits of the day. What this implies is that the old
habits and patterns of thoughts just get taken for granted as the way
things are. Old habits such as accepting the world to be 'real' or the
Self to be limited to the body are actually not hard to break. Old
habits can easily be faded out by simply introducing new habits little
by little. Granted this is an expedient teaching, but it is very
practical approach to lifting the mind out of gross ignorance and
putting the attention or focus of consciousness in a more subtle
direction. There is innate power and energy that is the support of
making the mind more subtle. For some, the mind is so subtle that even
positive mental habits barely have any substance to them. Their minds
are more of the nature of light and energy and power and even pure
sattva, than resembling what we normally think of as being a mind.
Afterall, what is the mind without any gross fixed patterns or habits?
The subtle mind is more like a brilliant energy source than a quagmire
of concepts and ignorance. I'm a pragmatist when it comes to this kind
of advice. If it can't be understood and experienced directly, then
it's only a waste of time and energy for both the speaker and the
listener. I'm not speaking about some difficult penance or sadhana,
I'm simply speaking about clear seeing.

So, what is the point? Simply to not forget the progress. What is
progress? Progress is seeing who/what you really are again and again
until it is an unshakeable conviction of Self-Knowledge. Even to say
conviction is to fall short of what is being indicated. Conviction
even gets left off far below the purity of your Being, as a mere rung
on a conceptual step-ladder that leads to You without concept of you.
So it can begin as a habit, a habit of remembering who you are, a
habit of forgetting what you're not. After a short time of this more
sattvic type of habit, one's sense of identity shifts. Habits will
probably still be there for the body and mind, or not, but they are
not binding and hold no limitation inherent in them.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have your cake, and eat it. The
problem only lies in what you are calling cake. Be diligent just one
time to completely recognize that your true nature, your true form is
changeless eternal existence. Know that without a shadow of doubt that
the recognition and understanding of that changelessness is your true
identity, and that That is the cake. That is the cake of your
immortality. Thoroughly enjoy the eternal content of the taste of that
cake. If you see just once sufficiently deeply that only that cake of
your true identity is what satisfies completely, you will see that
what you have been calling cake is only dust. Anything imagined in the
world to give any satisfaction or happiness is only dry tasteless
unsatisfactory dust which can never give anything resembling lasting
happiness or peace. Chasing happiness in the world is like chasing
shadows. Can anyone, has anyone, ever successfully caught and captured
a tangible and satisfying shadow? Everything in the world is like
that. Like sand or water, the tighter you try to hold on to things in
the world, the more they slip through your fingers. It's an excercise
in futility, yet countless beings live countless lives chasing shadows
in a dream, like a dear chasing water in a mirage. The difference
between them and you is that you have made progress, you can
understand that there is no water in the mirage. There is no happiness
that can be found in the shadows of this dream. Leave the shadows to
their dance and eat the cake of light that illumines the shadows and
the dream. That taste is supremely satisfying. Know that taste, enjoy
that taste, and you will naturally let go of the ideas about the cake
being in the world.

When you are in the habit of enjoying that cake, you can never be
fooled again about where/what the real cake is, and how enjoyable it
is to eat. All of this is just a bunch of silly words and imagery
being used to point to something that can have a profound effect in
your consciousness.

Being accustomed to eating of that One Taste, you will ceast to
believe that anything in the world has any substance, let alone has
the ability to deliver any happiness or satisfaction. After this
understanding is fully imbibed, it is completely clear that the world
is untrue or unreal. That doesn't mean that the world appearance
doesn't still appear, it means that you understand it and know it for
what it is. The meaning of the world be unreal cannot be understood
correctly unless one recognizes and realizes the changeless eternal
existence as one true identity. That is the foundation of self-
realization. Without that understanding, one will continue to take
one's identity as being something contained within the transient world
appearance. Verify experientially without a doubt that after the all
appearances disappear, You still remain. Not you an appearance, but
You that is the silent witness to all appearances and disappearances.

With that understanding, it's your choice if you want to chase after
something in Illusion from a relative perspective. Know that it's not
true and chase after it, or not. What harms you when the world is not
true? You chase and you get something, or you chase and you don't get
it, either way, nothing has happened. It's only when we take it true
that something seems to harm or help the one who is taking the dream
to be true.

>It's hard to keep motivated about this except for love of
>Truth.

It's not really hard. That is an unnecessary concept rooted in a habit
of laziness in the mind. You conceive that it is easier to forget your
Self, so you experience accordingly by running the same mental
patterns again and again in your mind. It is a concept that is not
necessary for life my friend.

I agree, love the Truth. Break some of the lazy habits of the mind,
leave off unnecessary concepts, develop some positive mental habits,
and watch how easy it is be in the Joy of the Self. You won't even
have to think about being motivated. Motivation is needed when we feel
lazy. You won't feel lazy if you are reveling in the peace and
contentment of Self-bliss.

>There is no prize at the end of this, no becoming somebody and
>you have to give up some of your most cherished illusions (thoughts of
>my kids existence and dieing having lead a half assed unfulfilled
>life).

There is really no harm in thinking of a prize. It is not a harmful
concept for you. Only recognize that the prize is already who you are.
Correct, you don't need to think about becoming somebody, or somebody
different, just find out who you are to the point that you are
completely sure beyond all doubt. Find out who you are, and you win
spiritually, and you win in your relative existence. Yes, let go of
your illusions, Be as You Are, and you can definitely have a fulfilled
life as well as look after your relative duties. If anything, holding
on to illusion hinders you relative functioning, whereas knowing
yourself clears your mind and your life of all that unnecessary
clutter and allows you to function more effectively.

Ok, enough of the late night prattlings.

I appreciate the opportunity to be able to share if there is anyone
who is really interested in listening.

Thanks.

[Mahakali]

Hi All, just adding my two cents about nothing...

Before the mind labels any process "spiritual progress", the question
remains of whether there is an entity that has undertaken a process;
if yes, then, who is this entity that thinks has taken part in a
process and who is the one who thinks to have achieved/made some sort
of "spiritual progress"? The difference being that a process happens
whereas spiritual progress is being made by someone.

Spiritual search is just about this i.e. realizing that labelling or
thinking, that there could be a point in making plans for the future,
is a pointless exercise.It eludes the mind, yet, it takes the form of
the mind too. It is also beyond your control too.

Happiness comes and goes ...and so does pain. There could not be one
without the other. The realization to make here is that the two
balances out each other perfectly well. So, nothing is out of place or
out of balance. Everything is being distributed or handed down in
perfect relationship.It is only when the individual analysis what is
being given from an egotistic point of view that s/he falls into the
pitfall of thinking/adopting the attitude that either "all bad things
happens to him/her" or develops the view "everybody loves me and I am
immortal". The truth is that both "negatives" and "positives" are
equally and justly distributed, it only takes correct seeing to
realize that.

Unfortunately, spirituality is the last port of call for anyone
desiring fulfillment or feeling a sense of accomplishment for the life
one has just led. Actually, it is the worst place to be as the only
Reality to be known is the one which can be experienced in deep sleep
(with its apparent waking up from it and mental constructions of what
may or may not have happened during deep sleep to the character of the
story).However, realizing that a life is being led unfulfilled means
not to fall into the pitfall of chasing instant happiness and
realizing that current society can only partially fulfill your desires
and expectations but will never eradicate the cause of it. Actually,
it strives on the falsehood of creating a mirage/illusion for people
to find permanent peace and happiness simply by bying some service or
product. If you are feeling unfulfilled (the result), then, go to your
heart and ask yourself what is the real underlying 'cause' for it,
what is it that is blocking the fulfillment i.e. grief, loneliness etc
etc. Once identified, then, the 'cause' needs to be removed. I am of
the opinion that the 'unfulfillment' is only the result of some other
emotional/physical state and not its 'cause'.

I second Ram in saying that, in spirituality, you win if you are able
to develop, through direct experience, clear seeing... and get to the
realization of how everything is just appearance made up of seeing.

All the best...

Kali

> life as well as look after your relative duties. If...
>
> read more »

[Sandeep-Kuber Technologies]

I think what has been going on with me is I having been trying to have
my cake and eat it too. Chase after the world, and expect the whole
"realization" thing to work out later. Thus forgetting any progress
i've made.

That which has got forgotten.......is just that..

....something which the mechanism is not able to recall, either temporarily or permanently.

This might have negligible or tremendous consequences while dealing with any aspect of this appearance, aka paying the electric bill or a date with your boss.

But in terms of what is popularly referred to as "quest for truth" (or whatever term is used)....

...that which has got forgotten, is not worth remembering.


Meta-kenosis, (to use a fancy word) is not as a result of learning something which was not erstwhile known,
properly understanding the learning, doing some dry runs and then remembering to apply it in future time
under certain events.

Neither is it about an experience which can be recalled and thus which can be defined
and proclaimed.


It is, (if at all an "is" is to be applied)....

...a collapse of the very thought structure, which has invested in itself, itself being the very belief structure that there is something as evolutionary progress on some cause-effect linear continuum.


Neither in the arena of spirituality.

Nor in the arena of so called worldly affairs.

Again, if a collapse gets recorded as an experience and thus cognized as a collapse and thus defined as a collapse of of thought ( or whatever fancy words is ascribed)....

....once again that's hoopla of thought.
 


So what's the bottom line?

Happily forget, happily remember, knowing that both are mere movements of and as thought,
amounting to not even the proverbial fig leaf.

Happily eat the cake, knowing that eating is having...
...on the continuum of simultaneity.

It's hard to keep motivated about this except for love of
Truth.

Why bother with motivation?

Aflamed, there will be none left to douse the flames.

Cold inert, no amount of striking a match will transfer the flame.

Motivation is once more the same thought structure investing in itself that without motivation,
nothing can get done or undone.

There is no prize at the end of this, no becoming somebody and
you have to give up some of your most cherished illusions (thoughts of
my kids existence and dieing having lead a half assed unfulfilled
life).

And the bigger illusion (if there is at all a meaning in applying relativity inter-alia illusions)

is that you-Mark exists right now, (while these squiggly signs on a PC screen are getting read....

....to have some cherished illusions to be given up in some future time,

through some process which has to occur in some future time.



It is not that some beloved kid will get orphaned in future.


This, the entirety of appearance is a beloved kid of a barren woman.

[Mark Carpenter]

Hi Ram,

Thanks, I have gone over your post in depth a few times and will come
back to it. It says in the bhajans to "ride the satva guna", so I will
try to do that and gradually drop the unreal through discrimination
and churning this teaching.

The best way we can thank the Saints for these teachings is to
actually put them into practice, so hopefully I can do that.

Mark

[godszen]

only when you see your self in the light of consciousness is there
self realization or self knowledge