Washington Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
Angelo Embuldeniya
:-D
google quoted in the story as well as Dr. Awab!
cheers,
angelo.
drpa...@gmail.com
Dr. Awab Alvi
iceberg and soon I hope that the main stream media slowly rocks awake
Friends can I ask you for a favour - please check the comments being posted
on the Washington Post article - it seems as if some opposing individuals
are more geared towards a hate / discredit strategy. Complicating the free
speech campaign along with the cartoon controversy - I just feel if I myself
or Omer get involved in the discussion it will spoil the overall image of
the article (though I would love to get dirty). Some one can respond - but
when responding please respect the view of the other side and reply in a
carefully worded manner
Thanks
KO
Of course, most Pakistanis, including the people at "Don't Block the
Blog", think it's just fine for the Pakistani government to block
websites deemed blasphemous. They only object to the government's
action because it accidentally took down all blogspot blogs, and many
Pakistanis use blogspot. These people don't care about freedom. They
just want their regular websites back.
Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read.
If that is your aim, well thats fine too, but if not, then you should
make that clear.
Another point: Internet censorship is not 'recent' in Pakistan, it has
been there for some years.
ko
Dr. Awab Alvi
I don't know how we should position ourselves - technically I feel this
campaign should NOT trample upon the cartoon controversy - Personally I am
against the cartoons - but should our organization be for/against the issue
Need your guidance
-----Original Message-----
From: AGA...@googlegroups.com [mailto:AGA...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of KO
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:35 AM
To: AGA...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Washington Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
KO
Cartoons don't enter into at all. Blocking websites has nothing to do with cartoons. It is a misguided attempt at censorship by 3 old men who wouldn't know what the internet was if it came and kicked them in the ass.
This organization should simply be against the censorship of an international public space, the internet.
this writer on Chowk put it well:
I don't know what appalls me more: the sheer idiocy of such a blanket ban; the horror that someone thinks they've just struck a blow for Islam; or this insidious thought that, in Pakistan, we have no rights, only privileges.
Truly, it's the role of the Supreme Court I find debilitating. According to the BBC, on March 2, the Supreme Court ordered that all internet content that is insulting and degrading the beliefs of Muslims, and any site publishing the controversial caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, should be blocked from access in Pakistan. Not only that, but it has demanded that the concerned officials explain why such measures are not already in place.
Where do I put my face, as they say.
That the law in Pakistan steps into the social, the domestic and the private with all the aplomb of your stern uncle coming in to give you a right seeing-to, is something we have come to expect. Rape, blasphemy, murder, whatever – the law will explain to you why it can legislate to you on behalf of both man and God.
...I don't expect much of the law. In fact, I don't expect anything, really, except that which is not good. Censorship has a great history with us. My mother was a journalist in this country for some fifteen years, and worked for The Muslim daily for most of that newspaper's life. She remembers when Zia came into power and the paper had to go to the censors every evening. She tells me that for a while, whenever a story was censored, The Muslim would run STOP PRESS, and publish the white space. But then, after a while, when nothing looked like changing, reporters stopped reporting and writers stopped writing stories that were likely to get censored. It took the edge off, she said.
What I expect from the law is that it will take the edge off me, or try to. It will reduce all of us citizens to subjects, and in the end, the personality lording over us on a given day will become irrelevant – it will just be the Badshah Salamat of the time. And we will be left to scuttle about, scooping up whatever privilege we can, never assured of any rights.
Because Badshah Salamat isn't a person. It's a system. It's a meena bazaar of power relations and negotiation, where we barter freedom for freedom, service for service, and gouge out a small tract of land in which we can be reasonably secure that we will be who we will be. And all this time, we move through life on the defensive: because we can only be reasonably sure. We can never be certain. We scrape up the privilege, here and there, to speak up, but we have no inalienable right to do so.
The Zia era remains in my mind a period of intense darkness and fear, led by Zia, but painted in the rich shades and nuances of dark by all the other actors – the censors, the police, the intelligence, the editors who gave up printing STOP PRESS, jurists, the lawyers, the ideologues who brought the law so low. The people who tried to take the edge off. And the people who gave up their edge.
Our era, our Enlightened Moderation, has its own set of criminals. The Supreme Court I now list as one of them. The internet service providers of Pakistan are another. Who else goes on the list?
Because we're Pakistanis and we're keeping track. Jaza saza, as Faiz Sahb said, sab yahin pe hogi.
NancyB
The dentist better talk REAL NICE to Bill O'Reilly. Post is the rag of
the right. O'Reilly is the reporter of the right. Make it a cause of
the right, and you have about 100% of all of America, because Liberals
will always be pro freedom of speech.
Dr. Awab Alvi
That's the very reason we hope to interact with Bill O'Reilly - my hating
his gutts should not influence our fight for Freedom of Speech.
But his attitude has sometimes wanted me (like many others) to reach into
the TV and tell him to Shut up and listen to the other guys view point.
Despite all that - I CONTINUE TO WATCH HIS SHOW - that itself goes to show
how much he has me hooked.
And I agree the only way to get on his good side is to smile and let HIM do
the talking. Lets hope the global media jumps on to the story for the sake
of freedom of speech in Pakistan.
Peace out
-----Original Message-----
From: AGA...@googlegroups.com [mailto:AGA...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of NancyB
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:58 AM
To: Action Group Against Blogspot Ban in Pakistan
Subject: Re: Washington Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
Omer Alvie
clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read."
This comment:
Of course, most Pakistanis, including the people at "Don't Block the
Blog", think it's just fine for the Pakistani government to block
websites deemed blasphemous. They only object to the government's
action because it accidentally took down all blogspot blogs, and many
Pakistanis use blogspot. These people don't care about freedom. They
just want their regular websites back.
Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read.
If that is your aim, well thats fine too, but if not, then you should
make that clear.
Another point: Internet censorship is not 'recent' in Pakistan, it has
been there for some years.
ko
On 3/9/06, Dr. Awab Alvi wrote:
>
> I too am impressed at the article - I honestly believe it is the tip of the
> iceberg and soon I hope that the main stream media slowly rocks awake
>
> Friends can I ask you for a favour - please check the comments being posted
> on the Washington Post article - it seems as if some opposing individuals
> are more geared towards a hate / discredit strategy. Complicating the
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
Dr. Awab Alvi
KO
Just to respond to your email again – Some how I too was puzzled when you misquoted us by saying in your email
“Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/ clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read.”
The Don’t Block the Blog webpage (without any changes) has this statement on its website – and I request you to point out where does it “CLEARLY SAYS”
“Over the past few days, Pakistani Bloggers’ Freedom of Speech has been under attack by some, if not all, Internet Service Providers (ISPs) who has chosen to block all blogs hosted on the blogspot.com domain. Political pressure groups have protested to the government to block those web sites displaying the controversial cartoon images of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) that were hosted on the net. But instead of blocking specific sites, ISPs have simply blacklisted the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be inaccessible for viewing or authoring in Pakistan.”
If you read closely it DOES NOT imply that we say the censorship is OK – we have categorically stated and I quote “POLITICAL PRESSURE GROUPS HAVE PROTESTED TO THE GOVT “– I don’t think we can be equated with any political pressure groups like the MMA and the remaining notorious bunch
If you talk to me personally YES I condone the cartoons (maybe to the extent of censorship) but mind you its my personal opinion and not a statement on Help-Pakistan / DON’T BLOCK THE BLOG – for the record I too had those cartoons displayed and had them up for discussion on my blog until March 3rd when I voluntarily removed them in line with the Supreme Court Decision which was printed in the papers on 3rd March – I choose to abide by the law of the land that governs me. Mind you this all took place on my personal blog –
Please no hard feelings – just wanted to set the record straight.
Awab
(PS – I have requested Omer not to change any of the text displayed on the webpage – as I feel we stand correct in our statement and were only accidentally misquoted)
From:
AGA...@googlegroups.com [mailto:AGA...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Omer Alvie
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
2:56 AM
To: AGA...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Washington
Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
"Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
NancyB
20% friend, all the time.
Also there has to be some sort of agreement on whether this is "Free
speech" or "block the objectionable content, but free the rest." This
will strongly impact who participates in this group, so I think it is
best that the Pakistani members do most of the input on this. Free
speech will possibly attract more people, but you guys make the call.
I'm in the USA where we have thick skins to any insult, thanks,
probably to so much freedom of speech.
NancyB
comments being posted on the Washington Post article - it seems as if
some opposing individuals
are more geared towards a hate / discredit strategy."
These are all comments on a USA site, and guys that is what freedom of
speech actually looks like. It's not always terribly pretty, but since
you have taken the fight to US media, you will learn to ignore what we
call "the nut jobs." Clearly you still have SOME freedom of speech in
Pakistan, or you wouldn't be able to see them at all. So that's a good
thing. Why not do what we do, write off the commentators you don't
agree with (write them off in your own mind, not on the comments), and
make your point. Stay on topic. It would be very helpful to have some
comments that look like there are reasoned Pakistani bloggers adding to
the discussion. I think that would help your cause. The hate boys will
lose out in the marketplace of ideas, anyway, so don't waste your time
trying to reply to them.
KO
http://help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
That clearly states that the "Don't block the Blog" campaign would
have been OK if only the specific sites had been banned.
I had posted earlier:
"Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read."
This is not a quote from the website, rather the meaning I get from
the page. Reading the dont-block-the-blog/ page again (a few times
over), the above is exactly the meaning I get from that page.
regards,
ko
Omer Alvie
KO <khali...@gmail.com> wrote:
The page says: "But instead of blocking specific sites..."
http://help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
That clearly states that the "Don't block the Blog" campaign would
have been OK if only the specific sites had been banned.
I had posted earlier:
"Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read."
This is not a quote from the website, rather the meaning I get from
the page. Reading the dont-block-the-blog/ page again (a few times
over), the above is exactly the meaning I get from that page.
regards,
ko
On 3/9/06, Dr. Awab Alvi wrote:
>
>
>
>
> KO
>
>
>
> Just to respond to your email again – Some how I too was puzzled when you misquoted us by saying in your email
>
>
>
> "Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/ clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read."
>
>
>
> The Don't Block the Blog webpage (without any changes) has this statement on its website – and I request you to point out where does it "CLEARLY SAYS"
>
>
>
> "Over the past few days, Pakistani Bloggers' Freedom of Speech has been under attack by some, if not all, Internet Service Providers (ISPs) who has chosen to block all blogs hosted on the blogspot.com domain. Political pressure groups have protested to the government to block those web sites displaying the controversial cartoon images of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) that were hosted on the net. But instead of blocking specific sites, ISPs have simply blacklisted the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be inaccessible for viewing or authoring in Pakistan."
>
>
>
> If you read closely it DOES NOT imply that we say the censorship is OK – we have categorically stated and I quote "POLITICAL PRESSURE GROUPS HAVE PROTESTED TO THE GOVT "– I don't think we can be equated with any political pressure groups like the MMA and the remaining notorious bunch
>
>
>
> If you talk to me personally YES I condone the cartoons (maybe to the extent of censorship) but mind you its my personal opinion and not a statement on Help-Pakistan / DON'T BLOCK THE BLOG – for the record I too had those cartoons displayed and had them up for discussion on my blog until March 3rd when I voluntarily removed them in line with the Supreme Court Decision which was printed in the papers on 3rd March – I choose to abide by the law of the land that governs me. Mind you this all took place on my personal blog –
>
>
>
> Please no hard feelings – just wanted to set the record straight.
>
>
>
> Awab
>
>
>
> (PS – I have requested Omer not to change any of the text displayed on the webpage – as I feel we stand correct in our statement and were only accidentally misquoted)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: AGA...@googlegroups.com [mailto:AGA...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Omer Alvie
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 2:56 AM
> To: AGA...@googlegroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: Washington Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
> clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
> campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I TOTALLY DISAGREE BUT WE SHALL REVISE THE TEXT TO ENSURE SUCH CONFUSION AND MISINTERPRETATION DOES NOT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
>
>
>
>
>
> THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT.
>
>
>
>
>
> REGARDS,
>
>
>
>
>
> OMER
>
> KO wrote:
>
>
>
> This comment:
>
> Of course, most Pakistanis, including the people at "Don't Block the
> Blog", think it's just fine for the Pakistani government to block
> websites deemed blasphemous. They only object to the government's
> action because it accidentally took down all blogspot blogs, and many
> Pakistanis use blogspot. These people don't care about freedom. They
> just want their regular websites back.
>
> Right now, this page: help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/
> clearly says that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog
> campaign is just: Don't block the blogs I (and friends) read.
>
> If that is your aim, well thats fine too, but if not, then you should
> make that
KO
in getting the word through to so many people.
However, to me the description of events implies that censorship is OK
i.e the way it states the fact implies that the authors would have
been ok if the ban had not applied to the entire blogspot domain, but
only to selective sites. Simply put, judgement can be inferred from
the way facts are presented.
> Apparently, you seem to be comfortable only in seeing us as "selective"
> freedom of speech campaigners
...
> Do you now, understand what we are trying to say? We are NOT passing any
> jugdement in the narrative in the paragraph that is mentioned above. We are
> just describing what happened.
I do understand that you are not passing judgement in that
description, but that is my interpretation. The English language is is
a tricky one and means different things to different people.
It doesn't make sense to argue over a triviality, so I'm going to drop
this thread now.
regards,
ko
"But instead of
> blocking specific sites.." (as the government had ordered them to do), ISPs
> have simply blacklisted the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be
> inaccessible for viewing or authoring in Pakistan. "
Dr. Awab Alvi
It is really interesting how 2-3 different people perceive a statement in
their own right. That's human nature -
When you specifically point out to that statement it now makes sense - thank
you for pointing it out - I would tend to agree let keep this in good faith.
As we all are for the same cause.
I assure you I take no offense
Peace
-----Original Message-----
From: AGA...@googlegroups.com [mailto:AGA...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of KO
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 11:11 AM
To: AGA...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Washington Post publishes Blog ban in pakistan
regards,
ko
> > Just to respond to your email again - Some how I too was puzzled when
you
> misquoted us by saying in your email
> >
> >
> >
> > "Right now, this page:
> help-pakistan.com/main/dont-block-the-blog/ clearly says
> that censorship is OK, and the Don't block the blog campaign is just:
Don't
> block the blogs I (and friends) read."
> >
> >
> >
> > The Don't Block the Blog webpage (without any changes) has this
statement
> on its website - and I request you to point out where does it "CLEARLY
SAYS"
> >
> >
> >
> > "Over the past few days, Pakistani Bloggers' Freedom of Speech has been
> under attack by some, if not all, Internet Service Providers (ISPs) who
has
> chosen to block all blogs hosted on the blogspot.com domain. Political
> pressure groups have protested to the government to block those web sites
> displaying the controversial cartoon images of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)
that
> were hosted on the net. But instead of blocking specific sites, ISPs have
> simply blacklisted the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be
> inaccessible for viewing or authoring in Pakistan."
> >
> >
> >
> > If you read closely it DOES NOT imply that we say the censorship is OK -
> we have categorically stated and I quote "POLITICAL PRESSURE GROUPS HAVE
> PROTESTED TO THE GOVT "- I don't think we can be equated with any
political
> pressure groups like the MMA and the remaining notorious bunch
> >
> >
> >
> > If you talk to me personally YES I condone the cartoons (maybe to the
> extent of censorship) but mind you its my personal opinion and not a
> statement on Help-Pakistan / DON'T BLOCK THE BLOG - for the record I too
had
> those cartoons displayed and had them up for discussion on my blog until
> March 3rd when I voluntarily removed them in line with the Supreme Court
> Decision which was printed in the papers on 3rd March - I choose to abide
by
> the law of the land that governs me. Mind you this all took place on my
> personal blog -
> >
> >
> >
> > Please no hard feelings - just wanted to set the record straight.
> >
> >
> >
> > Awab
> >
> >
> >
> > (PS - I have requested Omer not to change any of the text displayed on
the
> webpage - as I feel we stand correct in our statement and were only
Omer Alvie
Please don't get so defensive. You (and Dr. Awab) have done great work
in getting the word through to so many people.
However, to me the description of events implies that censorship is OK
i.e the way it states the fact implies that the authors would have
been ok if the ban had not applied to the entire blogspot domain, but
only to selective sites. Simply put, judgement can be inferred from
the way facts are presented.
> Apparently, you seem to be comfortable only in seeing us as "selective"
> freedom of speech campaigners
...
> Do you now, understand what we are trying to say? We are NOT passing any
> jugdement in the narrative in the paragraph that is mentioned above. We are
> just describing what happened.
I do understand that you are not passing judgement in that
description, but that is my interpretation. The English language is is
a tricky one and means different things to different people.
It doesn't make sense to argue over a triviality, so I'm going to drop
this thread now.
regards,
ko
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
Omer Alvie
timbu...@gmail.com
free the rest." is a nice way to put it.
Not 100% liberal then. :)
KO
But instead of blocking specific sites, ISPs have simply blacklisted
the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be inaccessible for
Suggested:
Along with blocking the listed sites, ISP's have blacklisted the
entire blogspot.com domain, causing millions of weblogs to
inaccessible for viewing in Pakistan.
You could also add:
Some ISP's are blocking commonly used methods of bypassing the block,
and also news reports critical of the Pakistan governments actions.
ko
Sabahat Ashraf
government, demanding that it block those web sites displaying the
controversial cartoon images of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) from being
viewed in Pakistan. ISPs have responded to this by simply blacklisted
the entire domain at which these sites are hosted, causing thousands
of blogs to be inaccessible for viewing in Pakistan."
or something like that...
S
--
[Sabahat Iqbal Ashraf]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
c: (510) 304 5927 www.ashrafs.org/iFaqeer
ash...@alum.rpi.edu pakistan.wikicities.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit: http://pakistan.wikicities.com/wiki/Earthquake_10-05
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://iFaqeer.blogspot.com Socio-Political Commentary
http://WadiWallah.blogspot.com Technology, Life & Silicon Valley
http://PakistanFutures.blogspot.com Possible Futures for Pakistan
http://Urdu-ke-Naam.blogspot.com Language, Poetry and Spirituality
http://Rickshaw.blogspot.com Rickshaw!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My religion is humanitarianism….. Which is basis [sic]of every religion
in this world.
Abdus Sattar Edhi (Pakistan's humanitarian phenom)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
KO
say 'millions', not thousands.
ko
Omer Alvie
KO <khali...@gmail.com> wrote:
Current:
But instead of blocking specific sites, ISPs have simply blacklisted
the entire domain, causing thousands of blogs to be inaccessible for
viewing in Pakistan.
Suggested:
Along with blocking the listed sites, ISP's have blacklisted the
entire blogspot.com domain, causing millions of weblogs to
inaccessible for viewing in Pakistan.
You could also add:
Some ISP's are blocking commonly used methods of bypassing the block,
and also news reports critical of the Pakistan governments actions.
ko
On 3/10/06, Omer Alvie wrote:
>
> KO,
>
> Thank you for your input. Awab and I have addressed your concern, and have
> made a revision to the text.
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.