A different type of 650B bike...

[Steve Chan]

   I came across this while poking around the Velocipede Salon forum...it isn't bobbish, or gallic, or a conversion bike, and it has carbon bits on it...

_WARNING: Carbon content ahead, some people may choose to avert their eyes or move onto the next message_

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/different-take-650b-33104.html
http://ridingthecatskills.com/2013/06/27/english-650b-being-used-as-intended/

   Its a fat tire 650B tire that doesn't make any concessions to porteuring or randonneuring - just a weight weenie, fat tire, steel, "fast" bike:

​

   I like the premise, a light fast bike for recreational riding. But those gossamer seatstays seem over the top - though I hear that seatstays don't bear much load when riding, and if you aren't putting racks back there, I guess you could make them downright spindly. I would prefer a somewhat more traditional rendition for the frame but everything else just spells pure fun to me.

--
"Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." - Samuel Smiles

[Evan Baird]

What's the geometry? Looks similar to a Salsa.

[Jim Bronson]

Whatever increases tire choices is fine with me.

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Chris Cullum]

On Jan 28, 2015 8:59 PM, "Evan Baird" <vanst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What's the geometry? Looks similar to a Salsa.
>

IIRC it's fairly high trail, 72deg ht with 4.5cm offset.

John also has a full on neo Rene Herse so he is well versed on French style 650b rando bikes too.

>
> On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 8:55:13 PM UTC-8, Steve Chan wrote:
>>
>>
>>    I came across this while poking around the Velocipede Salon forum...it isn't bobbish, or gallic, or a conversion bike, and it has carbon bits on it...
>>
>> _WARNING: Carbon content ahead, some people may choose to avert their eyes or move onto the next message_
>>
>> http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/different-take-650b-33104.html
>> http://ridingthecatskills.com/2013/06/27/english-650b-being-used-as-intended/
>>
>>    Its a fat tire 650B tire that doesn't make any concessions to porteuring or randonneuring - just a weight weenie, fat tire, steel, "fast" bike:
>>
>> ​

>>    I like the premise, a light fast bike for recreational riding. But those gossamer seatstays seem over the top - though I hear that seatstays don't bear much load when riding, and if you aren't putting racks back there, I guess you could make them downright spindly. I would prefer a somewhat more traditional rendition for the frame but everything else just spells pure fun to me.
>>
>> --
>> "Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." - Samuel Smiles
>

[Bruce Herbitter]

 650B machine can be fast. I have two road bikes that I've converted to 650B and they are quite fast. They are nicer over coarse roads and grip in turns better they did as 700 size rides. They won't take as fat a tire as my purpose built 650B tourer will, but they do quite well.

[Mike Hauptman]

I did something similar back in 2013 with a 60cm Habanero titanium bike.  I had just done a 650B conversion on a 81 Trek 710 and while cleaning it I kept looking the the Habanero wondering would the 650 wheels fit?  They did and the result is below, not many glam shots though.  I did complete a rando series on it last year.  But for that I loaded it up with Dyno lights, a front rack, bag, and fenders. 38 Pari Moto's were the biggest that would fit.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/sets/72157632880419239/

Mike, Sleepless in Rochelle IL, Hauptman 


Sent from my iPad

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[Bruce Herbitter]

Looks great Mike. 38 mm is plenty big enough!

Sent from my iPad

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[Steven Frederick]

It's kinda ugly/industrial looking but I like the concept.  Is it a custom/one off, I wonder?

Steve

--

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/29/2015 08:15 AM, Steven Frederick wrote:
> It's kinda ugly/industrial looking but I like the concept. Is it a
> custom/one off, I wonder?

It's a Rob English custom. http://www.englishcycles.com/

[Jan Heine]

I think it's awesome. There are many different tastes in bikes, and
many different purposes, but the benefits of wide tires are useful to
almost all riders. So why should the enjoyment supple 650B tires be
limited to randonneurs and cyclotourists?

The bike in the photos probably rides great. Many modern carbon
frames, especially from small builders have really good flex
characteristics. The light weight isn't going to hurt, either. As to
the front-end geometry, a rider coming from a modern high-trail bike
probably will like a bit more trail and "cornering on rails" feel
than many of us, who prefer a more precise, minutely adjustable front
end.

I'd love to test that bike for Bicycle Quarterly! In fact, we did
ride something not that dissimilar, the Calfee 650B Adventure

http://www.bikequarterly.com/bq121.html

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/
--

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Very cool bike, indeed. 

The fork and frame are steel, with a carbon fiber head tube insert: 

http://flic.kr/p/eyHGXu

I'd love to read a BQ review. It wouldn't be the first time one of John F's bikes graced BQ's pages. 

http://flic.kr/p/8Bs8JD

- David G in San Diego 

[Chris Cullum]

On Jan 29, 2015 5:38 AM, "Jan Heine" <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I think it's awesome. There are many different tastes in bikes, and many different purposes, but the benefits of wide tires are useful to almost all riders. So why should the enjoyment supple 650B tires be limited to randonneurs and cyclotourists?
>
> The bike in the photos probably rides great. Many modern carbon frames, especially from small builders have really good flex characteristics. The light weight isn't going to hurt, either. As to the front-end geometry, a rider coming from a modern high-trail bike probably will like a bit more trail and "cornering on rails" feel than many of us, who prefer a more precise, minutely adjustable front end.
>

John, the owner, is actually coming from low trail as he owns a new Herse and a Toei. He has said that he prefers higher trail for the type of riding and terrain he does.

It's a not really a carbon bike either. Steel frame/fork with a cf insert in the head tube to save weight. Lots of modern cf parts though.

[Steve Chan]

   I was recently looking at a used Lynskey Sportive as a potential 650B conversion candidate after Jan's endorsement of the higher end Lynskey race bikes for their "planing" characteristics. The seller measured the chainstays, and told me that there was about 40mm-41mm of clearance at 320mm from the center of the dropouts - a little too tight for Pari Motos, but an enthusiastic converter could dimple the stays (or find a builder to dimple them).

   Voids the warrantee of course, but Lynskey warrantees aren't transferable anyway...

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=162301

   I think that if you want something at least as wide as the Pari-Moto in a modern sport bike geometry, you really have to go custom. The Stag was pretty close, but still has a geometry designed around fenders and front load.

   Steve

[somervillebikes]

You could always get a Stag and change the front-end geometry with a replacement custom fork like a bunch of us did in the Jeff Lyon group fork buy.  However, our goal wasn't to change the geometry, only to get a more compliant, lighter fork.

Anton

[Jim Bronson]

I have a rando buddy who has a Lynskey he recently acquired and he loves it.  But he refuses to consider anything other than 700x23 Gatorskins, go figure.

[TomT]

It looks like a custom 'English' bike.  Always like the skinny top tube and chopstick-size seat stays on those, something of a signature style for him.

I think English also offers folding travel bikes a la Bike Friday.

There's a  lot more on his website.  It's interesting to read that he starts the design with your preferred length of seatpost, as a result, a lot of his bikes have steep sloping top tube.  A lot of his customers are counting on the flex of the seatpost for comfort I supposed.

On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 8:55:13 PM UTC-8, Steve Chan wrote:

[Mike Schiller]

I really like English's traveling 29er he built for Joe Cruz. https://joecruz.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/english29er/  Except I'd do it 650B+ so I could run those 3" tires or 29er wheels depending on terrain.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[Alex Wetmore]

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of TomT <vel...@gmail.com>

> I think English also offers folding travel bikes a la Bike Friday.
​

Rob English worked for Bike Friday for a long time.  He designed the Bike Friday Tikit and was heavily involved in engineering there.

Eric Estlund (Winter Bicycles) is another BF alum.  Both are excellent builders and do some really cool stuff.

alex

[Steve Park]

John, are you listening...

this is a good idea.

[james olsen]

It's a good concept. I had a bike set up that way to try out 650Bs, so starting with a direct comparison on a bike type I'm most used to. 72HTA, 45 rake same as the road bikes we produce. Low BB. Pari-Motos or CDVs on 390g disc rims. Disc brakes. 1350g Al frame, all-carbon forks, all other parts from a light road bike. Really fast-feeling bike over 100 miles or so. Actually posted my quickest total time over a regular 2x100 mile ride I do as a weekend out-and-back, probably no suprise to anyone here. Great in the corners, stable and low. Handled a bit of dry dirt trail and singletrack here and there. A fun experiment, but not so great with a load on the front. Felt fine with 5-6kg spread across the bike with soft-packs though. I have a steel version now with an adjusted geometry that rides better.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/67338272@N05/14165002310/