Any thoughts on this Surly Pacer, Paul Racer 650b conversion?

[Dan Leahul]

https://twitter.com/QualityBike/status/743873444098408448

I'm not sure how this works, but this appears to be a Surly employee's bike. On paper these Paul Racer brakes shouldn't work for a 650b conversion with the Surly Pacer, yet these photos seem to indicate otherwise. If you zoom in on the brake photos, you can see that the washer for the brake pads hang over the bottom of the brake arm pretty significantly. Full disclosure, I have this same frame and this brake set, and am in the the midst of a 650b conversion, just waiting on some rims. I bought some Tektro r559s because I didn't think the Racer's would reach, but these photos are confusing me a bit. I imagine he might have filed out a few millimeters out of the bottom of the brake arm, but the tolerances are pretty slim. I don't know how this would affect the performance of longevity of the brake.

Any other ideas would be greatly welcome.

[Etan Heller]

Paul lists the max reach of the Racer calipers as 72mm.

Tektro lists the max reach of the R559 calipers as 73mm.

Why wouldn't the Pauls reach?

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[Dan Leahul]

Yes, Paul lists the reach as 72mm, but they measure that as the hypotenuse from the centre of the brake bolt to the top edge of the brake pad. The effective reach is more like ~67mm which comes up a few crucial millimeters short. 

The fact that Paul measures their brake reach this way didn't occur to me until well late into my 650b conversion. Kind of shitty, but that's the way it is. I like the Racer brakes a lot, and much prefer them over the r559s, so I am very curious to see if I can still use the Racer's for my 650b.

Show quoted text

[Etan Heller]

Ah, didn't know that.

If you want a better-looking alternative to the Tektro brake, I would check out the Dia Compe 750 centerpull. It's a classic design with 75mm of reach and works really well. I have a pair on a 27" to 700C conversion and they brake really well. The cold forging is very strong and the finish is great and actually looks vintage. The Tektro, while functional, have always looked cheap to me.

[wg ws]

FWIW I raised this question with Paul when doing a conversion a couple of years ago.  Here is the conversation:

Me - "Any chance you will extend the reach by another 2 - 3 mm's?  Converting a Soma Smoothie ES to 650b with a Whiskey 7 "road plus" rim brake fork, the Racer is just shy of fitting on either the back or the fork.  For me, the Whiskey 7 is a game changer, I really don't want to invest in disc brakes and whole new wheel sets, given the Racers provide all the stopping power and modulation I need.  But there really aren't any good options in the 74 - 76 mm reach range that a lot of set ups require.  Have to go with the Dia Compe Mod 750's, which aren't anywhere near as good as the Racers.  I've found other people are struggling with the same issue, think it will only increase once people recognize that there is finally a usable, 650b rim brake based carbon fork out (the Whiskey 7).  Takes up to 50 mm tires, great stuff.

 

Big fan of Paul Components, needless to say."

Paul's response- "That’s probably not going to happen anytime soon, sorry. We just aren’t seeing the demand for that and are super busy with some other projects."

Maybe if other people start lobbying as well?  May also be a chicken and egg problem, if there was the extra reach, would he'd sell more Racers?

geoff s

arlington, ma

On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 11:08:30 PM UTC-5, Dan Leahul wrote:

Yes, Paul lists the reach as 72mm, but they measure that as the hypotenuse from the centre of the brake bolt to the top edge of the brake pad. The effective reach is more like ~67mm which comes up a few crucial millimeters short. 

.

Show quoted text

On Sun., Nov. 10, 2019, 10:58 p.m. Etan Heller, <helle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Paul lists the max reach of the Racer calipers as 72mm.

Tektro lists the max reach of the R559 calipers as 73mm.

Why wouldn't the Pauls reach?

On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 9:47 PM Dan Leahul <danl...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://twitter.com/QualityBike/status/743873444098408448

I'm not sure how this works, but this appears to be a Surly employee's bike. On paper these Paul Racer brakes shouldn't work for a 650b conversion with the Surly Pacer, yet these photos seem to indicate otherwise. If you zoom in on the brake photos, you can see that the washer for the brake pads hang over the bottom of the brake arm pretty significantly. Full disclosure, I have this same frame and this brake set, and am in the the midst of a 650b conversion, just waiting on some rims. I bought some Tektro r559s because I didn't think the Racer's would reach, but these photos are confusing me a bit. I imagine he might have filed out a few millimeters out of the bottom of the brake arm, but the tolerances are pretty slim. I don't know how this would affect the performance of longevity of the brake.

Any other ideas would be greatly welcome.

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[Steve Palincsar]

Wouldn't RAIDs be a better choice here than DC750s?

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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
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[Brad]

I would think so.  My experience says so.

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[Will Vautrain]

I returned some Paul Racers because of this very issue. I really wanted to use them. I tried fitting the Dia-Compe 750’s but for a few reasons ended up back with the Tektros.

The bike was my Soma ES with Whisky Road+ fork.

[Bern]

I've extended brake slots via filing several times with no discernible negative effect. Just don't file too far (I'll leave that judgement up to you).