OEM Mafac levers vs modern levers on Raid brakes?

[Evan Estern]

I'm planning to set up a bike with Mafac Raid brakes.  My go to levers have always been Shimano 600 (Aero style), since they used to be relatively cheap and available and I find them comfortable and good looking.  Lately I see that they've been going up in price, so I was thinking of using the half hood Mafac levers that came with the brakes.  I've "heard" that they have less mechanical advantage than newer levers, but does that really matter?  Are the Mafac levers better for any reason? 

[Evan Estern]

Also, anyone know what kind of cable ends they take? 

[Steve Palincsar]

You can buy Dia Compe aero levers for around $30 a pair.  I wouldn't consider that particularly expensive.   They're similar to the Shimano aero levers, only the lever bodies are a little bit larger.  I'm using a set of Dia Compes with Mafac Racers on my Jack Taylor, and they're virtually identical in feel and function to the 600 aeros I have on my Kogswell P/R actuating Mafac Raids.

I've tried Mafac non-aero levers.  There's a huge difference in feel.  I was not successful in using them to brake from the hoods; for me, they're usable from the hooks only - and that's not what I want anymore.

On 3/3/19 4:30 PM, Evan Estern wrote:

I'm planning to set up a bike with Mafac Raid brakes.  My go to levers have always been Shimano 600 (Aero style), since they used to be relatively cheap and available and I find them comfortable and good looking.  Lately I see that they've been going up in price, so I was thinking of using the half hood Mafac levers that came with the brakes.  I've "heard" that they have less mechanical advantage than newer levers, but does that really matter?  Are the Mafac levers better for any reason? 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Brad]

I have two bikes set up with the Cane Creek Aero levers and Mafac Raids.  I am very happy with the set up.   I also back in time used Weinmann levers with Mafac Racers in imitation of the setup on Mondia's top modell.  At the time Mafac levers were known to stick and the solution was non-obvious to my teenage self.  The cable ends are standard for drop bar brake levers on the Mafac Lever.  It is the adjusting barrell that goes into the lever where the housing exits that is kind of special.  They hoods are available from Rustines and the levers work as they were designed. 

[Justin, Oakland]

Has anyone used this general family of centerpull (MAFAC RAID/Compass) with Modern SRAM levers?

[Dan Farmer]

The Mafac levers take the usual(?) pear-shaped cable end.

I'm in the same boat, getting ready to set up a new bike with Mafac Raids.  Having never used aero brake levers, I was interested to read Steve's comment about mechanical advantage.  I am tempted to try some Dia Compe levers, though cable routing could get complicated with aero levers, bar-end shifters, and a decaleur and bag,.  Hmmm.

-df

On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 1:30:06 PM UTC-8, Evan Estern wrote:

[satanas]

Shimano R400 levers appear to be widely available and are similar to (some) 600 aero levers. The Mafac levers have *much* greater reach and much lower mechanical advantage than the R400s, so caveat emptor...

Later,
Stephen

[Brad]

It is not as complicated as you might think.  I have it up and running on two bikes.  Aero routing actually seems to simplify things when using the decaleur for me.

[Steve Palincsar]

Here's one way to route the cables, seen here on my Jack Taylor:

  

and here's another way to route the shifter cable:

Aero brake cable routing causes no issues whatever. Bar end shifter cables, on the other hand, do require some finessing.

On 3/4/19 7:09 AM, Brad wrote:

It is not as complicated as you might think.  I have it up and running on two bikes.  Aero routing actually seems to simplify things when using the decaleur for me.

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 2:25:51 AM UTC-5, Dan Farmer wrote:

The Mafac levers take the usual(?) pear-shaped cable end.

I'm in the same boat, getting ready to set up a new bike with Mafac Raids.  Having never used aero brake levers, I was interested to read Steve's comment about mechanical advantage.  I am tempted to try some Dia Compe levers, though cable routing could get complicated with aero levers, bar-end shifters, and a decaleur and bag,.  Hmmm.

-df

[Jeff Burke]

Justin, I installed Mafac Racers with SRAM Force22 levers this past week. I used the original pads because I was being hasty. They pulled fine but felt spongy, which is probably from the pads. I just installed some newer non-threaded cartridge style pad holders and put on some black/salmon hybrid pads. I'm hoping they stop a little harder now but haven't ridden this setup yet. I'll have photos later & maybe a ride report next week.

[Jeff Burke]

Here is my setup. Force22 with Mafac Racer calipers and Kool-Stop pad holders with hybrid compound pads. Like I said, the feeling was spongy with the original pads. I was going to get the Compass pads for the original Mafac pad holders but had these Kool-Stops laying around and put them on. They feel much better, aka stiffer, but I haven't done anything more than ride around the block on the new pads. I may still get the pads but I think the toed washers are a must. The brakes still have a slight squeal.

[Eric Langley]

+1 on the toed washers to reduce squeal.

This may already be obvious to others, but I had great success filing down my own toed washers with a rat tail file. If you've got such a file laying about, it's a much cheaper option than the Compass/RH made ones.  

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 12:03:00 AM UTC-5, Jeff Burke wrote:

... I may still get the pads but I think the toed washers are a must. The brakes still have a slight squeal.

[Justin, Oakland]

Thanks all-

Sounds like the MAFACs won't gain me much over my Tektro sidepulls so until I have money for a repaint and braze on placements for modern compass centerpulls on that frame I'll sit tight!

[Jeff Burke]

I think the Mafacs work fine, they feel good through the SRAM levers, but my initial ride was let down by poor pad conditions which was my hastiness. You can get Mafacs pretty cheap or even free and you can even get the rebuild kits from Compass if you need to. They probably do work much better brazed directly on the bike, I wish my roadini had that option. Compression-less housing should work better too.

[Stephen Poole]

IMHO, most of the variability in centrepull brake feel comes from the leverage - or lack thereof - in the system. Some cable hangers are very flexible, which can make things somewhat spongier, and there's caliper flex, and casing compression, but these are IME of lesser significance. Pad compounds are of course important for stopping power too.

First the lever has to fit the rider's hands - not someone else's! - then the leverage in the system has to match up satisfactorily, which may vary with individual taste. Everything else comes after these two things.

Later,

Stephen

[Brad]

You may be right.  No one to my knowledge has actually tested the flexibility of the various brake parts.

Do bridges flex more than braze ons?  How do we know?

Do sloppy brake fixing bolt holes in the frame create slop?

Hangers as you point out flexing?

Variations in cable length for the transverse cable? 

Front to back slop in the bushings caliper arm interface?

Delrin plastic versus brass in the bushings?

Lubrication and dirt?

[David Parsons]

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 4:23:53 AM UTC-7, Brad wrote:

You may be right.  No one to my knowledge has actually tested the flexibility of the various brake parts.

Do bridges flex more than braze ons?  How do we know?

Do sloppy brake fixing bolt holes in the frame create slop?

Hangers as you point out flexing?

Variations in cable length for the transverse cable? 

Front to back slop in the bushings caliper arm interface?

Delrin plastic versus brass in the bushings?

Lubrication and dirt?

And, also; how compressionless is the housing?   A couple of my machines are set up with ebay rainbow housing, and they're about as compressionful as you can get; even with long runs of the cable going between stops I still get about an eighth of an inch housing compression to the rear brake.  The cable is oh so pretty, but tbh it's pretty horrible stuff compared to even the cheap Jagwire cable.

-david parsons

[Sam]

Agreed. Housing and proper length is the first step. 

The bikes above have too much housing to be optimal. 

I switched to Jagwire elite link housing and will never go back.

Sam