A Shimergo reconfiguration of the Trek 1200c
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Ed Braley
Feb 28, 2014, 12:03:59 PM2/28/14
to 65...@googlegroups.com
We're still in the depths of Winter here in Maine,
but I'm getting ready for some great early Spring riding on my 650B
machines over our badly weather-damaged roads. This machine got a make-over
yesterday, and I thought I might put up a few pics for
entertainment.
Some of you may remember this bike from a few
years ago. It was the first "modern technology" bike that I conveted to 650B. It
caused quite a stir at the time - someone even called it a "new vector". That
seems almost quaint today, given what's happened with 650B, and bikes in
general, over these last few years.
But anyway, I've reconfigured a few of my 700C
bikes with older 8 speed Shimano drivetrains from barcons and down tube shifters
to the hybrid ShimErgo setup, and I really like it. So I wanted to try
that in a compact double drivetrain on a 650B rig. Rather than investing in yet
another bike, I decided to use my original new vector machine. It's nothing too
fancy, and it's appropriately on the budget end of things, but I think
it'll be just fine. Here it is:
Ed.
Harold Bielstein
Feb 28, 2014, 12:39:35 PM2/28/14
to Ed Braley, 65...@googlegroups.com
Hello Ed, can you please give a little explanation of the “Shimergo setup?
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Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
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Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
Ed Braley
Feb 28, 2014, 1:05:22 PM2/28/14
to Harold Bielstein, 65...@googlegroups.com
Shimergo is the general term used to identify any one of a number of
workable combinations of Shimano drivetrains and Ergopower controls. It's
very popular in the Europe - especially the UK. Some very clever folks
determined what cable pulls were required by various drivetrains and
generated in various controls. There was a site in the UK that had tables
with interoperability information about this phenomenon.
There are a few combinations that work really well in stock form, and few
more that can be made to work with in-line cable multipliers from Shift
mate.
The one that I really like is a perfect match, and the most useful for the
bikes I wanted to revise. Shimano 8 speed rear drivetrains are fully
compatible with 10 speed Ergopower controls. It's mind blowing, really. They
operate together like a system. In front, however, you need a derailleur
with a longer throw and a lighter spring than the typical road STI models
for the best results with the newer Ergopower levers. But that's easy
enough, just use a Campy front, or a Shimano flat bar front, or any other
front derailleur with those properties.
It can be a very economical way to get integrated controls, especially on
older bikes. The 8 speed stuff is less expensive than 10 speed, and also
more durable. There's a lot of info out on the net if you google Shimergo.
I'm a bit of a Shimergo zealot these days, I've converted six of my 700C
bikes to Shimergo 8/10 just his last year. So a 650B converted bike with a
Shimergo drivetrain is right up my alley ;)
Ed.
workable combinations of Shimano drivetrains and Ergopower controls. It's
very popular in the Europe - especially the UK. Some very clever folks
determined what cable pulls were required by various drivetrains and
generated in various controls. There was a site in the UK that had tables
with interoperability information about this phenomenon.
There are a few combinations that work really well in stock form, and few
more that can be made to work with in-line cable multipliers from Shift
mate.
The one that I really like is a perfect match, and the most useful for the
bikes I wanted to revise. Shimano 8 speed rear drivetrains are fully
compatible with 10 speed Ergopower controls. It's mind blowing, really. They
operate together like a system. In front, however, you need a derailleur
with a longer throw and a lighter spring than the typical road STI models
for the best results with the newer Ergopower levers. But that's easy
enough, just use a Campy front, or a Shimano flat bar front, or any other
front derailleur with those properties.
It can be a very economical way to get integrated controls, especially on
older bikes. The 8 speed stuff is less expensive than 10 speed, and also
more durable. There's a lot of info out on the net if you google Shimergo.
I'm a bit of a Shimergo zealot these days, I've converted six of my 700C
bikes to Shimergo 8/10 just his last year. So a 650B converted bike with a
Shimergo drivetrain is right up my alley ;)
Ed.
Steven Frederick
Feb 28, 2014, 1:56:47 PM2/28/14
to Ed Braley, Harold Bielstein, 650b
I'm a-gonna do this to my (currently 9-speed barcon shimano) Rambouillet someday--I'll have to do a little research and find out what Ergolevers are best for my purposes...I like the older style that allow multi-shifts up and down in the right/rear lever, and a trimmable double or triple-compatible left/front shifter...
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Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@rap.midco.net
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Eric Stocker
Feb 28, 2014, 2:12:08 PM2/28/14
to Steven Frederick, Ed Braley, Harold Bielstein, 650b
FWIW, I've been running two bikes with semi-modern Shimergo drivetrains for the last year and have had great success.
On the Waterford I have 10 speed Ergo levers (8 speed Record Ti, gutted and replaced with 10spd internals) with a J-Tek Shiftmate #2 and 9 speed XTR Rapid-Rise
On the Rawland I have 9 speed Record Ti ergos with a J-Tek Shiftmate #3 and 9 speed XT Rapid-Rise
Shifting is flawless and the pointy style ergo levers feel great on mustache bars. The Rapid Rise derailleurs work incredibly well with the Ergo shifters. It's a great feeling to have the ability to dump the cassette DOWN before a big climb or a stop light.
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Nick Payne
Feb 28, 2014, 2:07:27 PM2/28/14
to 65...@googlegroups.com
And Campagnolo 11-speed Ergo shifters index perfectly with Shimano
9-speed drivetrains. On the bike in the image I've linked to below, the
shifters are Chorus 11-speed Ultrashift and all the rest of the
drivetrain is 9-speed Shimano. Since I replaced the original 9-speed STI
shifters (which were starting to jam when attempting shifts) with the
Ergos, I haven't been able to detect any shortcomings in the rear
shifting at all, and the Ergo shifters have the added advantage that the
front shifter has more trim positions for banishing chain rub.
And the Chorus 11-speed shifters were cheaper (from Wiggle in the UK)
than people were asking on eBay for NOS Ultegra 9-speed shifters. The
Campagnolo Athena 11-speed shifters are lower price than the Chorus, but
they don't have as many trim positions for the front derailleur. They
are, however, aluminium rather than carbon-fibre, if that's what you prefer.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yykra6tch0dkorz/_DSC0554.JPG
Nick
9-speed drivetrains. On the bike in the image I've linked to below, the
shifters are Chorus 11-speed Ultrashift and all the rest of the
drivetrain is 9-speed Shimano. Since I replaced the original 9-speed STI
shifters (which were starting to jam when attempting shifts) with the
Ergos, I haven't been able to detect any shortcomings in the rear
shifting at all, and the Ergo shifters have the added advantage that the
front shifter has more trim positions for banishing chain rub.
And the Chorus 11-speed shifters were cheaper (from Wiggle in the UK)
than people were asking on eBay for NOS Ultegra 9-speed shifters. The
Campagnolo Athena 11-speed shifters are lower price than the Chorus, but
they don't have as many trim positions for the front derailleur. They
are, however, aluminium rather than carbon-fibre, if that's what you prefer.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yykra6tch0dkorz/_DSC0554.JPG
Nick
Ed Braley
Feb 28, 2014, 2:16:45 PM2/28/14
to Steven Frederick, Harold Bielstein, 650b
The 11 speed Campy Ergo levers shift Shimano 9 with
no shiftmate. The ratio numbers are nearly identical, and it's reported to be
almost as good as the 8/10 configuration, which really is perfect.
The mechanisms in older ergo levers had a number of
changes and features that were phased in and out in model years and
generations, and frankly I'm mytified by all of the variations.
I haven't yet tried a triple crank Shimergo system,
but it can be done. I know the tandem enthusiasts were big into this for
awhile.
Ed.
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mikeha...@comcast.net
Feb 28, 2014, 2:27:11 PM2/28/14
to Eric Stocker, Ed Braley, Harold Bielstein, 650b, Steven Frederick
These are most of my Shimangolo Bikes. Gotta love'm
Soma Grand Randonneur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/10767274805/in/set-72157637494175756
81 Trek 710
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/8186034750/in/set-72157631871890929
82 Trek 614
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/5398443253/in/set-72157623971770369
Habanero Road
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/10658766146/in/set-72157632880419239
85 Trek 620
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/7612127724/in/set-72157603995188740
Mike, You say Shimergo I say Shimangolo, Hauptman
Nor-IL
ron...@ronlau.com
Feb 28, 2014, 2:23:59 PM2/28/14
to Ed Braley, Steven Frederick, Harold Bielstein, 650b
A friend of mine who works in Bio Tech firm who deals with lots of CNC
process told me they can do a Campy Ergo Index wheel that can do Shimano 9
or 10s.
The only problem is the first one will be more than $1000, than it gets
cheaper, the other problem is Campy will have a lawyer write you a letter
very soon if you sell that to public.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:16:45 -0500, "Ed Braley" <edbr...@maine.rr.com>
wrote:
> ; Friday, February 28, 2014 1:56 PM Re: [650B] A
> To: "Ed Braley"
> Cc:
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> Hal Bielstein
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process told me they can do a Campy Ergo Index wheel that can do Shimano 9
or 10s.
The only problem is the first one will be more than $1000, than it gets
cheaper, the other problem is Campy will have a lawyer write you a letter
very soon if you sell that to public.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 14:16:45 -0500, "Ed Braley" <edbr...@maine.rr.com>
wrote:
> ; Friday, February 28, 2014 1:56 PM Re: [650B] A
> Shimergo reconfiguration of the Trek 1200c
> I'm a-gonna do this to my (currently 9-speed barcon shimano)
> Rambouillet someday--I'll have to do a little research and find out what
> Ergolevers are best for my purposes...I like the older style that allow
> multi-shifts up and down in the right/rear lever, and a trimmable double
> or triple-compatible left/front shifter...
>
> Steve.
>
> I'm a-gonna do this to my (currently 9-speed barcon shimano)
> Rambouillet someday--I'll have to do a little research and find out what
> Ergolevers are best for my purposes...I like the older style that allow
> multi-shifts up and down in the right/rear lever, and a trimmable double
> or triple-compatible left/front shifter...
>
> Steve.
>
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [650B] A Shimergo reconfiguration of the Trek 1200c
>
> Hello Ed, can you please give a little explanation of the "Shimergo
> setup?
> Subject: Re: [650B] A Shimergo reconfiguration of the Trek 1200c
>
> Hello Ed, can you please give a little explanation of the "Shimergo
> setup?
> On Feb 28, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Ed Braley wrote:
>
> We're still in the depths of Winter here in Maine, but I'm getting
ready
> for some great early Spring riding on my 650B machines over our badly
> weather-damaged roads. This machine got a make-over yesterday, and I
> thought I might put up a few pics for entertainment.
>
> Some of you may remember this bike from a few years ago. It was the
first
> "modern technology" bike that I conveted to 650B. It caused quite a stir
> at the time - someone even called it a "new vector". That seems almost
> quaint today, given what's happened with 650B, and bikes in general,
over
> these last few years.
>
> But anyway, I've reconfigured a few of my 700C bikes with older 8 speed
> Shimano drivetrains from barcons and down tube shifters to the hybrid
> ShimErgo setup, and I really like it. So I wanted to try that in a
> compact double drivetrain on a 650B rig. Rather than investing in yet
> another bike, I decided to use my original new vector machine. It's
> nothing too fancy, and it's appropriately on the budget end of things,
> but I think it'll be just fine. Here it is:
>
>
> We're still in the depths of Winter here in Maine, but I'm getting
ready
> for some great early Spring riding on my 650B machines over our badly
> weather-damaged roads. This machine got a make-over yesterday, and I
> thought I might put up a few pics for entertainment.
>
> Some of you may remember this bike from a few years ago. It was the
first
> "modern technology" bike that I conveted to 650B. It caused quite a stir
> at the time - someone even called it a "new vector". That seems almost
> quaint today, given what's happened with 650B, and bikes in general,
over
> these last few years.
>
> But anyway, I've reconfigured a few of my 700C bikes with older 8 speed
> Shimano drivetrains from barcons and down tube shifters to the hybrid
> ShimErgo setup, and I really like it. So I wanted to try that in a
> compact double drivetrain on a 650B rig. Rather than investing in yet
> another bike, I decided to use my original new vector machine. It's
> nothing too fancy, and it's appropriately on the budget end of things,
> but I think it'll be just fine. Here it is:
>
> Ed.
>
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>
> Hal Bielstein
>
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Ed Braley
Feb 28, 2014, 2:35:06 PM2/28/14
to Eric Stocker, Steven Frederick, Harold Bielstein, 650b
Eric, that Waterford is freakin' awesome! A 650B
disc brake Shimergo bike. Yes! That looks simply fantastic, I bet it's a
blast to ride, too. Nice pictures...
I was seriously considering a Rapid Rise
derailleur on my 650B Shimergo bike, I've read that the shifting feels
almost as smooth as the electronic stuff. But I was thinking I might get
absent minded and shift the wrong way since the up/down controls are reversed
when used on that derailleur. Some people say the thumb button is perfectly
situated for down-shifting when climbing out of the saddle, though.
What's the name of control type that allows
multiple down shifts with Rapid rise? Escape? This is where I get lost in the
Campy nomenclature...
Ed Braley
Feb 28, 2014, 2:43:28 PM2/28/14
to mikeha...@comcast.net, Eric Stocker, Harold Bielstein, 650b, Steven Frederick
Nice bikes, Mike, all of them!
And you have that triple crank thing all sorted
out, too. What controls and front derailleur are you running on the
triples?
Okay, now I want a triple crank Shimergo/Shimangolo
setup on my Lotus Classique, darnit! I want to lose the barcons, and this
is the way to go.
Eric Stocker
Feb 28, 2014, 2:44:29 PM2/28/14
to Ed Braley, Steven Frederick, Harold Bielstein, 650b
Thanks, Ed. It is a fun bike.
The only downside to having the Rapid Rise + Ergo combo on drop bars is the ability to upshift while in the drops. It is slightly awkward using the finger lever while hammering in the drops. This isn't really a huge problem on a Rando bike though :)
Eric Stocker
Feb 28, 2014, 2:47:51 PM2/28/14
to mikeha...@comcast.net, Ed Braley, Harold Bielstein, 650b, Steven Frederick
Those are some nice bikes Mike! I especially like the 82 Trek, it is quite elegant.
Campimano all the way!
mikeha...@comcast.net
Feb 28, 2014, 3:20:47 PM2/28/14
to Ed Braley, 650b
The shifters are from the era of multi shifts up and down Early to mid Ott's. Some 9, some 10 with the appropriate Shiftmate for the rear which are all Rapid Rise XT's.
The fronts derailers are either 9sp 105 triples or the IRD brazeon triple. On the 85 Trek i had an issue with the 46 tooth chainring where the derailer cage stuck out the back too far (for me). so I used the brazeon IRD and shimmed the derailer so it followed the chainring better. Before and after pictures below.
Before
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/2776167243/in/set-72157603995188740/
After
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/2776150893/in/set-72157603995188740/
Mike
From: "Ed Braley" <edbr...@maine.rr.com>
To: mikeha...@comcast.net, "Eric Stocker" <esto...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Harold Bielstein" <hkbie...@rap.midco.net>, "650b" <65...@googlegroups.com>, "Steven Frederick" <stl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:43:28 PM
Subject: Re: [650B] A Shimergo reconfiguration of the Trek 1200c
ron...@ronlau.com
Mar 1, 2014, 12:17:31 AM3/1/14
to 65...@googlegroups.com
To all,
Bob K. of ex-Bilenky moved to Portland and I told Bob a long time ago he
will make me a custom 650b one day. It was a few years ago, and it is
almost done.
I asked for a few details I like and let him make it they way he would
have it. Ends up being custom tail-light mount, custom front and rear rack
and oversize 747 tubing (I asked for that)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeforvictory/12845239614/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeforvictory/12844921653/in/photostream/
I really like how he made the rear rack, it follows the fender line and
the front rack has low rider attach to the front wide rack.
Thanks,
Ron
Bob K. of ex-Bilenky moved to Portland and I told Bob a long time ago he
will make me a custom 650b one day. It was a few years ago, and it is
almost done.
I asked for a few details I like and let him make it they way he would
have it. Ends up being custom tail-light mount, custom front and rear rack
and oversize 747 tubing (I asked for that)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeforvictory/12845239614/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeforvictory/12844921653/in/photostream/
I really like how he made the rear rack, it follows the fender line and
the front rack has low rider attach to the front wide rack.
Thanks,
Ron
Steve Chan
Mar 1, 2014, 12:40:03 AM3/1/14
to Ronald Lau, 650b
It's a beautiful bike with amazing custom details like the rack and fender stay light.
Steve
Tony DeFilippo
Mar 2, 2014, 6:53:23 AM3/2/14
to 65...@googlegroups.com
Mike those bikes are all awesome, I'm really taken when the Treks! I have a '82 Trek that I 650B'd, believe it's a 715\710 frame.
I'm curious what your thoughts are composing the 650b trek to your grand randonneur...
Tony
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