Loooon reach

[Josh Zielinski]

Most recent conversion is the first I've made that Tektro559s aren't quite reaching.  Rear hits just right but the front lacks a couple mm to get off the tire and more central to rim surface.

I've considered filling the brake arm "slot".  I recall seeing an offset pad design that drops them down.  And, I've heard of other long reach side pull brakes that may be slightly longer: Like BMX/Cruiser types.

Here's an old thread on that 3rd option:

https://groups.google.com/g/650b/c/TAI6lKW-Azw

Any new updates to this?  Perhaps eventually I will replace the fork or add canti mounts but for now I just need some moderate braking power so I can see how much I like this old frame.  I know it won't be great and where I ride this bike that's ok.

Have you experienced this?  What's my best option?

Thanks!

Josh

[Michael Hauptman]

Hi Josh,

I went with the Diacomps 750 on this 84 Trek 610.  They had enough reach and worked well for me.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24194829@N07/albums/72157660908803763/

Mike in NorIL

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2024, at 8:25 AM, Josh Zielinski <josh.zi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bernard Duhon]

I have used the brake pads to give you a about an extra millimeter of reach. However, they get can rub 42 mm tire and I’m afraid it might dig into it if it gets slightly out of reach. We can modify the brake pad by grinding down the part that would touch  the tire

Are restrictions to 38 mm or smaller tire

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Josh Zielinski <josh.zi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2024 9:24:41 AM
To: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [650B] Loooon reach

 

[Eric Daume]

I dremeled, see here: https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2014/12/trek-620-650b-conversion.html

It was fine, but it is making the brakes already weak power just a bit weaker.

Eric

[Eric Daume]

The Tektro 800A also is available that has a bit more each than the 559.

[Josh Zielinski]

Thanks Eric, I was wondering if anyone had experience with 800A.  It definitely doesn't look like as quality a model as 559 (no quick release either) but it may be suitable for my needs here.

Your blog with the photo shows my situation almost exactly.  Thanks for sharing that!

Bernard, that's the reason I am considering more than filing down the 559s a tad... A longer brake would allow me to run 42s as this frame/fork would easily clear them.

I like the looks of Diacompe 750 and could be persuaded to put a cable hanger on to be able to use centerpull brakes.  How much longer are these than the 559s?  I believe 84 610 Trek is a 27" wheel model meaning they must be pretty long!  (I have an '85 Trek 520 that 559s clear 42s on pretty nicely).

Any more folks deal with this clearance issue?  I really appreciate your thoughts/experience shared!

Josh

P.s. just realized the title is missing " g"... Loon brakes... Sorry about that.

[Eric Daume]

I’ve used both the 559 and the 800A and find them more or less equally mediocre: adequate in the dry, spooky with wet rims. 

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[daxo potato]

the interwbs list the 559 reach as 55-73mm

the dia compe is claimed to be 62-78mm
so it sounds like it would work for you if you only need 5mm (and a cable hanger)

the bmx world has many interesting items as they have similar issues to 650b converters. there are several bmx brakes that have long reach and accommodate wide tyres eg dia compe bulldog. 

Dave in NY

On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 9:24 AM Josh Zielinski <josh.zi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most recent conversion is the first I've made that Tektro559s aren't quite reaching.  Rear hits just right but the front lacks a couple mm to get off the tire and more central to rim surface.

I've considered filling the brake arm "slot".  I recall seeing an offset pad design that drops them down.  And, I've heard of other long reach side pull brakes that may be slightly longer: Like BMX/Cruiser types.

Here's an old thread on that 3rd option:

https://groups.google.com/g/650b/c/TAI6lKW-Azw

.

[Alex I]

My Fuji 650B conversion uses Dia Compe 750s with these front and back: https://bdopcycling.com/product/bdop-offset-brake-pad-holders-set-silver/

Reach on the Fuji isn't quite acceptable without the drop pads (in the zoom photo you can see how it almost would work without them in the front, but trust me I tried). I would recommend a little proactive filing or you'll want to check your brake pads periodically to make sure there's clearance - with the 42s on my Fuji (Hetres), the closest portion of the pad holder to the tire has low clearance that will only decrease as the pads wear (good reminder to myself to go check, been a while since I did). If anyone has questions or wants to see detail I can try and take some photos at home. I have some Mafac Raids I toyed with installing, but braking is fine in practice so I didn't bother. The old style DC 750s fit the 70s Fuji timeline better as well. 

Braking is noticeably a little spongier than my other bikes (data points: Dia Compe / Weinmann 750 with normal pad holders on a 650b convert, Campy Monoplanars on 700c) but fine in practice for me with jaunts into the foothills and subsequent descending (NOT alpine type descending). I also have smooth rims (Grand Bois), not MSW (like my other 650b Pacenti Brevet MSW), so that could account for a bit of sponge factor? Not sure. If a deer (or car) suddenly jumped out I'd probably be in trouble, but I'd probably panic on a disc bike too and endo! YMMV

Alex, Riding Looney Bikes with Looney Brakes in Colorado
 

[Josh Zielinski]

Appreciate the help.  I haven't made any moves so if there's more thoughts/experience to contribute I'd appreciate it.

Here's a look at how far off we are.  

Further inspection and the rear could stand another mm or 2 as well.  If 5mm would get me there I think I'd go Dia Compe 750s front and back.

I am excited to get this frame out there.  I appreciate all the insight.

Josh

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[Will Boericke]

Get the Chinese offset pad holders.  I have a pair on my Lenton with centrpulls.  Work a treat, though have gone up in price since I bought.  Can probably find cheaper on Aliexpress.

Will 

[Josh Zielinski]

Thanks Will.

I've got a Tektro 800 (definitely not as nice as 559) and just ordered these offset dealy bobs.  I'll report back in case anyone is curioUs. 

I also picked up another bike/frame that I think would make a better conversion so I might just go with 700c on this bike after all (as it appears it would fit a pretty supple sized width in that size as well and I have a pair of wheels laying around).

Thanks all for the insights

Josh Z

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[Ryan Watson]

The 900A is basically a longer 800. 72-92mm 

On Jun 18, 2024, at 8:26 AM, Josh Zielinski <josh.zi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Will Boericke]

Just to return to the offset pad holders, true to prediction, you can get yours from Aliexpress for $10ish.  As long as you're not in a hurry....

Will

[Rory]

I'm going to put out there drum brakes are a thing, and can still work for this type of application. You can get drum brakes with dynamo hubs and an 8/9 speed cassette. 

[Will Boericke]

And....as long as we're talking up drum brakes, my buddy just reminded me that we decided to keep a set of Sturmey archer SS wheels with drum brakes.  Anybody want a wheel set to build a bike around?

Will

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[Josh Zielinski]

Rory, 

I have a drum brake on my Davidson Discovery Tandem... It easily weighs 4lbs or more.  While the Tektro 800 is a bit clunkerish it's pretty spry compared to drum brake option.

I do approve of the creativity!

Currently, away from this project so I won't be able to report on things (800s or cool cheap drop placement modifiers) but I hope to do so before I go back to 700c on this frame.  Cringe words on this group...

Josh Z

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[Rory]

Since i'm looking back at this, I thought I would add some numbers to it:

Sturmey Archer XL-Fdd(larger 90mm diameter with dynamo):1350 grams

(shimano dyno hub is 476ish grams, tectro brake is about 180 grams) 

Stumey Archer X-RDC(70mm dia with 8/9speed cassette): 950 grams

(shimano deore hub is about 449ish grams, and 180 grams for the brake)

so, yeah, these aren't for weight weenies by any stretch of the imagination, but they are something for someone looking for a city bike and not wanting to worry about rim brake clearances...