The Masi Rando - dead horse conversation?

[R D]

I've owned the Masi Rando Elite for almost 6 years and now considering another bike to replace her.  I went down a rabbit hole, leading me to this group and found comments on it's weight, ride quality (or lack there of) and tubing specs.  In my current search (mostly production bikes), I am finding that the 650b-disc offerings of the popular brands (Crust, Surly, All City, even BMC) are not far off from the Masi Rando's frame and fork weight (4.9ish and 2.8ish#s respectively) and tubing specs (8/6/8).  Are these specs, or near these, pretty much the industry standard for production 650b-disc gravel/adventure/rando bikes?  For those who have had a chance to ride a Masi Rando, how does it compare to the most current production offerings in this category?

[Ian A]

What type of riding are you looking to do? If you are looking for a straight up randonneuring bike, buying used is often a good way to save money against a full custom build. If you are looking for a bikepacking rig, there may be more options.

In terms of a traditional rando bike, recently, there was a pre loved 52cm Boulder All Road frame/fork offered for sale on this list at a very reasonable price.  And at a higher budget a complete (and awesome)  57cm Winter Cycles. There are others that come up from time to time and you could also post a "looking for" request and see whether someone is thinking of selling something that suits.

In terms of buying a rando frame new, there are the Soma/Surly type offerings (my friend has a Surly Midnight Special he enjoys) and then a big jump in price to custom, semi custom or small batch offerings. Lots of the more "supple" rando bikes are designed around rim brakes. The options for rim brake 650b rims are limited and can be hard to source. That has definitely been the case for the past ten + years here in Canada.  So if discs are desired, that would limit the "supple" options a little. Finding rims would be easier though!

IanA Alberta Canada

[randal...@gmail.com]

Yeah, specs aren't great for modern steel bikes. Overly heavy with stiff frame and mountain bike forks. Get a Fog Cutter +  Low-Trail Wolverine fork (4.4 pounds + 1.9 pounds for fork) or Fairlight Faran (4.5lbs / 2.2lbs) or V3 Soma Grand Rando (4.4 lbs / 2.0 lbs) - not much else in the production category is going to be as light and flexible as these three.  A hundred grams in frame or fork weight can be the difference between great and terrible.

I had the 2018 Masi gave it a fair shake and thought it sucked, traded it out for a Fog Cutter and was much happier. Still riding it and enjoying the supple frame/fork. The V3 Grand Randonneur is probably a little more supple than the FC but I've pretty much had my fill of low-trail for now so am content with exploring options online and not IRL.

I've collected some (random) modern bike weights here to give you a high-level overview of steel weight as it sits in current year. I would avoid All-City, their frames and forks seem extremely heavy. Actually I would avoid almost every modern steel bike manufacturer. Fairlight is a gem and Soma is the oddball hitting triples while everybody else can barely get on base. I never considered rim brakes because, why make things harder for no reason?

Randy Daniels in ATL

[Andy G]

Some other reasonable options are: 

Penhale, Toussaint, VO, Crust, Black Mountain, Endpoint, Lyonsport, L'avecaise, Elephant, Fitz Cyclez (increasing order by price)

I had a Soma Double Cross rim brake edition long ago and it was great for touring and worked peachy for randonneuring at the time. I upgraded to a Rawland Stag and that was a big upgrade until that broke, and I'm on Rawland rSogn now and that's been almost as good. The Masis were appealing in that it was a full bike with reasonable attributes for the price, but the overall package was apparently hefty. 

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[Harry Travis]

Randy:

Thanks for the chart. 

It would be useful to know which forks are for rim brakes. Of course you can tell by the 1 lb  penalty which forks are steel; but if the chart is much about weight, then some average offset for an average weight of the disk caliper(s) should be added. 

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Harry P Travis

16.1.1

On Nov 22, 2022, at 2:54 PM, randal...@gmail.com <randal...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, specs aren't great for modern steel bikes. Overly heavy with stiff frame and mountain bike forks. Get a Fog Cutter +  Low-Trail Wolverine fork (4.4 pounds + 1.9 pounds for fork) or Fairlight Faran (4.5lbs / 2.2lbs) or V3 Soma Grand Rando (4.4 lbs / 2.0 lbs) - not much else in the production category is going to be as light and flexible as these three.  A hundred grams in frame or fork weight can be the difference between great and terrible.

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[randal...@gmail.com]

Here's the share link if you want quick access to the source which would show disc/rim - although I believe the only rim brake models are the Surlys I found from 2013 and the 2022 Standert Burgermeister (no weight discount for that one for some reason). If you know any modern-ish published rim brake frame/fork weights please let me know and I can input them. This is sort of a background project I'm always open to add more.

Link

[Pat Smith]

I built up a medium size BMC Road+ a few years back and it was heavy. 5.2 pound frame and 2.8 pound fork. This included headset, seatpost collar, and thru axles I think. doesn't ride well with a front load either, though I have a large rando bag for practicality.

Rides great unloaded with a half frame bag though!

Pat in DC

[David Cummings]

Of course if you’re handy with a wrench, there’s also the conversion route. My first rando love is a ‘79 Trek converted to 650b. It’s evolved into more of a touring bike now, but what I learned from it has driven me to experiment with many things and to refine my tastes and needs.

I have an Elephant NFE that I enjoy, but it is reserved for double track adventures while the Trek is for strictly road (and hero gravel) adventures. 

I have a light-ish go-fast Bridgestone RB-1 that I converted to 650b and use it exclusively for club rides - no racks or fenders - just a road bike with they typical butt-bag. I really don’t like skinny tires anymore and lightweight, supple 38’s are fantastic on any paved surface. And it’s fun to piss people off when I can keep up “with such big tires.” And when I can’t, I know it’s the engine, not the bike. 

David “n+1 is a gift and a curse” in MT

[mackenzy...@gmail.com]

I have a friend I ride with who has a Masi Rando - it seemed like a really well made bike and rides fantastic. It's not as flashy as some of the other listed bikes, maybe not as "planey" if you're into flexy bikes. But good bang for the buck, IMO. 

[satanas]

If weight reduction is the main object, the realistic options IMHO are carbon (maximum frame and fork weight savings), titanium (typically <1800g/4lbs, customs are reasonable from Waltly, if you understand frame design and can read a drawing), or in steel something like a custom from Rob English. The last wouldn't be cheap, but should be pretty wonderful; check out Rob's Instagram.

Steel disc forks are going to be way heavier than the carbon equivalents, and I wouldn't expect suppleness. This can be overcome with a Shockstop stem. Steel *rim brake* forks can get down to ~700g/1.5lbs, but not disc forks due to the different loading.

Bear in mind also that gravel-ish frames typically include lots of mounting points and are expected to be able to carry stuff, whereas road frames are not. Their weight is thus necessarily greater.

Non-custom frames have to be strong (and stiff) enough to ward off complaints about excessive flex, and to reduce or eliminate warranty claims, limiting how light and/or flexy they can be made.

Later,

Stephen (who might eventually end up with a Trek Checkpoint SL5)

[R D]

Weight reduction with a steel ride experience is the goal. Not sure if I want it to be low trail or not yet. But THIS is basically my conclusion from everyone’s input and my additional research I’ve done in the interim.  Going Ti or custom steel is the route I think I’ll take next. I almost pulled the trigger on a Litespeed or Lynskey Black Friday deal, but decided to hold off. I have my Masi riding pretty good actually. Upgrades include a White Ind. compact crank, Nox carbon wheels, a redshift stem and some supple tires.  It’s currently under 26#s with pedals, cages and a front rack. Also have a Bombtrack Hook EXT-C that has been my dedicated backpacking/country rig. My Masi still holds a strong place in the stable as a dad bike, grocery getter and a compliment to my wife’s Polyvalent. I might grab a Wayfinder carbon fork for it to experience some higher trail in the steel flavor and/or another wheelset to be my dedicated primary-road+ set for my Bombtrack (650bx2.1-2 is my preferred tire for gravel/bikepacking).