thoughts on Sinewave Cycles Reactor?

[Matthew Snyder]

I'm finalizing my build plans for my new Bantam "Adventurebike" 650B+ rig, which will be used primarily for multi-day, off-road, self-supported trips.  I already have the Shutter Precision dynamo hub I'll be using.  I'd like to carry a GPS and cell phone, and occasionally a GoPro type of camera, and keep them charged during these trips.  I'm thinking of getting a Sinewave Cycles Reactor to provide USB power for charging devices:

http://www.sinewavecycles.com/collections/chargers/products/sinewave-cycles-reactor

I like the minimal design and the fact that I can keep the wiring from the hub internal and protected, but obviously It's a little spendy for what it is.  There doesn't seem to be much competition for this type of product.  

Is this a dumb thing to buy?  I really can't tell.  I have a few concerns.  First is the future of the USB interface for charging.  I don't really keep up with all of the new standards for devices, but my impression is that this older style of USB port is slowly but surely on its way out.  Will my next phone two years from now even work with this type of charger?  The other consideration is whether it's really that much better than the alternatives, which in my mind are a few (heavy) external battery packs, or a solar charger like a Suntactics.  Both of those are way cheaper and in some ways more versatile by decoupling charging from forward progress, but less elegant and compact. 

Does anyone have one of these Sinewave Reactors or another similar product?  Would love to hear a long-term review...

Matthew Snyder

Seattle, WA

[Harry Watson]

I use this puppy:

http://en.bumm.de/produkte/dynamo-scheinwerfer/lumotec-iq2-luxos.html

It's nowhere near as neat and tidy as the reactor, but it's held up really well for me, and I like having an all-in-one system. Seems pretty sturdy (it's held up to a couple of crashes) and despite some poor reviews regarding water resistance I've had no problems with rain. And if you're worried about future-proofing the USB plug is removable.

You've probably already got a light though...

[Adam Paiva]

I have the Sinewave Revolution, which I bought right around when they released the Reactor.  I have to say I don't regret buying the Revolution instead.

i.(-)  It is not as tidy or integrated an install as the Reactor

ii. (+) Cheaper

iii.  (+) Versatile in its set up.  I have had it strapped underneath the stem, to the handlebars, to an outfront Garmin mount, in a pocket on a rando bag.  One + for this vs. the location at the stem cap is the stem cap makes a lot of sense for charging you Garmin or anything mounted to your hbars.  If you want to charge your Gopro, cell phone, battery pack, or other device which you wouldn't normally keep mounted on the bars, you'll have a usb cable going from the stem cap to wherever you hide that device (presumably in a handlebar/rando bag).

iv.  (+) obvi the Reactor wont work with a quill stem.  Never thought of this, but my next bike turned out to be a threaded fork

v. (+) allows you to keep on using nice looking or fun stem caps

As far as the function goes, I find it very very useful and have no complaints at all for the Sinewave product.  Not a dumb buy at all.

I feel like USB is not going to disappear soon so I would not let that affect my decision.

[somervillebikes]

Sinewave Cycles is a friend of mine who lives in the next town over. He's a one-man business and he makes what I believe is the best dyno-driven USB charger out there. When he came out with the Revolution, I contacted him and urged him to design what eventually came to be the Reactor. We ended up collaborating on the design. 

I have a Reactor on one of my personal bikes. It does a fine job of keeping the phone charged, even with the lights on (but with lights on, the charge rate is a slow trickle). The electronics are identical to those in the Revolution, they're just packaged in that beautiful integrated stem cap.

I don't know about the future of USB. I wouldn't be surprised if future generations of smart phones emand higher charging power. That's a big unknown at this point... but I think it's safe to predict that that won't happen for at least a few years.

Anton

velolumino.com

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 4:49:03 PM UTC-5, Matthew Snyder wrote:

[Will Morris]

Big problem with the Reactor is I can't run a TMAT stem switch at the same time. Which is more important? :)

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[Nicholas Jensen]

Can your devices charge directly from the Reactor? I know Apple and Garmin devices haven't in the past worked reliably with a direct charge from these type of USB chargers.

I've used the Sinewave Revolution for about six months worth of unsupported touring. My Moto G 1st gen charges from my Revolution just fine. It takes about a half day ride to charge it most of the way. Since I use my Moto G as my GPS, it's one less device to keep topped off. 

For keeping more than one device topped off I think it'd be a hassle relying on a dynamo-only solution. A battery pack would make your life easier and would probably be worth the weight penalty. 

[satanas]

Seems like the safer solution is to use a powerbank as an intermediary between the Sinewave charger and the device as this should work with just about any device. The battery could be charged from the wall when convenient too.

IMHO USB isn't going to go away anytime soon; it may be supplemented but at present it's pretty well the default power interface for small devices, and there are lots of aftermarket USB chargers for things like camera batteries; I have two of these.

Later,
Stephen

[somervillebikes]

Decisions, decisions!

Anton

velolumino.com

[Joel Niemi]

I think the powerbank intermediary is the solution. As I understand, the issue with Garmins is that they don't like having their power input stop, when they've detected that's where power is coming from. With a dynamo, if wired directly, every time you stop, power drops out and Garmin wants to reset.

Sinewave also sells nice gold-plated solder-yourself connectors and a 1-to-2 splitter for power downstream of their device.

No to hijack the thread, but can anyone point me to a source for a short - say 18" - USB to USB-8 cable? (needed to charge a camera - the stock cables are longer; I'm not so concerned about saving a bit of weight, rather in reducing length of cable to stow)

Joel Niemi- Snohomish Washington

[Adam Paiva]

I used to have a Garmin 800 now an 820. The 800 was annoying with losing external power in that a screen popped up telling me external power lost which I had to touch the screen to get rid of and get back to my data or map, but that was it. The unit didn't reset though, so it was no big deal to work around it.

On my 820 they seem to have addressed that issue as I don't get a popup. There is just a little external power indicator at the top of the screen which shows on or off.

Regardless I still carry a small power bank on any multi day tour as they are just convenient and take up an infinitesimal amount of space.

[Dan Widner]

I got the Sinewave Reactor when they first came out and Silver was the only color.  I use it on a touring bike with a Shutter Precision dynamo hub and have done so for a couple of years now.  I love the design and use it to charge an iPhone or any other USB powered device on a bike.  For me, it is most valuable when bicycle touring especially out in the boonies.  Having the mental satisfaction that I don't need to worry about device charging is worth it!

Dan
Richmond, VA

On Sunday, January 29, 2017 at 4:49:03 PM UTC-5, Matthew Snyder wrote:

[Matthew Snyder]

Thanks for the feedback.  Adam's point about advantages of the Revolution in terms of device location is a good one.  I'll be using a frame bag along the top tube, so I'll most likely just run the cable from the stem cap down into the frame bag.  I'd like to keep the wiring from the hub contained inside the fork/steerer.  To me, it's a worthwhile tradeoff for a bike that will get used on some rough terrain, even if it is a less flexible solution overall.  

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons not to do this, but has anyone tried to integrate a solar cell + charger into, say, the top flap of a boxy rando bag?  Or on the top/front facing part of a larger bikepacking bar bag?  

[Rick Johnson]

On 1/30/2017 11:34 AM, Matthew Snyder wrote:
> I'm sure there are plenty of reasons not to do this, but has anyone
> tried to integrate a solar cell + charger into, say, the top flap of a
> boxy rando bag? Or on the top/front facing part of a larger
> bikepacking bar bag?

You'd likely find significant deficiencies in charging performance. Some
years back I experimented with a flexible solar panel for use while
backpacking. It was a similar size to what you describe and I used it as
a fixed panel for charging in the field. While the results were
satisfactory for charging small cells or a relatively low power phone
the peak charge current I saw under ideal conditions was 220mA. That was
for a stationary position, ideally aligned with the sun on a very clear
day at 7700 ft above sea level.
Considering mounting that on a bike I would expect much less average
performance.


Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

[Nathan Spratt]

I have a reactor since they first came out on my touring bike. Love it works great both with direct charging and charging through a battery. I have charged AA batteries, Camera batteries, phone and USB batteries while on tour. It's a solid product.

[Harald Kliems]

Or you can get an integrated device that combines charger and powerbank as buffer in one, for instance the Zzing https://zzing.de/index.php/en/

What also nice about the Zzing is that connects to the hub with a standard 3.5mm mono audio connector. So I can easily take it off the bike when not needed.

 Harald.

[Matthew Snyder]

Rick, you're probably right that the performance of a "solar bag" wouldn't be that great, but I'm interested enough that I might just give it a shot as a DIY project with a simple coroplast boxy bag, as a fun winter project.  Panels have gotten pretty darn cheap, and while the quality seems to vary a good bit, I've met enough hikers with positive experiences with the Suntactics sCharger-5 that I'm interested in exploring this further.  The Suntactics panel supposedly outputs 1000mA in direct sun.  I'm sure that I wouldn't see that kind of current in practice, particularly in a forested area and on a bike, and I'd need to use a slightly smaller panel anyway.  But I'm hopeful that some of the modern panels might be able to get me more than the 220mA you experienced.  

[Mark Bulgier]

Did you see the photo on the website, of a sCharger-5 on a rear rack?  Seems like a good size, no need to go smaller.

I'm thinking rear rack might be the best place to put it, since you're less likely to shadow it with your own body or head, and of course the size issue.  I can envision a superlight minimalist rear rack made only to hold the sCharger, could be made to weigh just a few ounces.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle

[Al Cowan]

+1 for both sinewave products, I've had them both for a couple of years and they've been flawless. I charge my Iphone off my reactor without issue while using it for navigating. If you have any intention of using a LD stem then the reactor will be a problem.  

[Sandy Kralovec]

I know this thread is a year and a half old - but it is the only one I can find that has Sinewave Reactor users!  I just started using mine and it is driving me crazy!  I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  It drains my iPhone (I read somewhere that cell phones and garmins do not like inconsistent charging) though I am reading on here that some of you charge your phones!

Then I moved to trying to charge my Powerbanks - the new Anker 22000 Ah wouldn't budge in charge after 5 hours of riding.  Today the first hour and a half changed my smaller powerbank from 80 to 86%, but the trip home (another hour and a half) took the charge from 86% down to 62% . WHAT???  Am I doing something wrong?  I invested $1000 in this system so I would be able to use it touring in Europe next month - but if I can't get my phone or Powerbanks to charge - it is worthless.  

Any thoughts on why my Sinewave reactor is not charging things?

Sandy

[Adam Paiva]

Is your headlight off when trying to charge?
Are you going consistently fast enough to charge?
I don’t have the Reactor but the Revolution and it has just worked ever since I bought it years ago. I will say it doesn’t charge well or at all if I’m going a slow pace.

[Steve Chan]

   Solar panels are a lot more efficient now than a few years ago, and flexible solar panels are much less efficient than rigid ones. I have 3 panel solar charger for camping and testing it based on what my phone battery app reports, it seems to output around 1.2 to 1.5 amps in the noon late spring sun in Berkeley/Oakland. The most recent Ankers might be more efficient.

   On a bike it still may not be very efficient though, panel output seems very vulnerable to passing shadows, changing angles, etc...

[Harald Kliems]

It sounds like something is clearly wrong. Can you say a bit more what dynohub you're using, what speed you're going at, and whether you have confirmed that everything is wired up correctly, and that you've made sure that your lights aren't on when trying to charge?

I do want to point out that a 22,000mAh power bank is huge. Even at max output for the Beacon (1 A, according to their specs), it would take at least 22 hours to fully charge.

 Harald in Madison (WI)

[Sandy Kralovec]

I don't have the light, so that is not the problem.  I did have an older solar panel a while back and it did not work well at all, plus the problem for me is that I live (and often tour) in Oregon and you cannot count on sun.  We did get a nice new 3 panel solar charger from a friend a couple months ago that we have not tried yet (We bought the reactor first and I would like to make it work for me - it was quite an investment)

The hub is a SON28.  We ride on average 12mph as we are touring (and I am old(er) and not fast!)   But it weirdly drained my phone going down hill at 25mph (it went down 8% on one downhill stretch) . 

I did contact SInewave and we are going to test this reactor to see if there is an issue with this one in particular.  I would like it to be able to keep ahead of my smaller battery and phone while touring.  The fact that on a couple different occasions it was draining the battery or the phone was strange.  

Thanks for replying everyone.  I will reply back here and let you know what I learn.  Sandy

[Adam Paiva]

I'll say that even on some off road tours where my speed was slower - I wasn't getting enough output to fully charge my phone but it was keeping it at the same level at least, definitely not draining the battery.  It sounds like maybe your unit has an issue so I'd chase that.  One other idea is if you have wifi/bluetooth on and navigation going and your screen on, it's goign to be a lot harder to charge or even keep the phone topped up.

[Theodor Rzad]

I've been using a Revolution for ~7 months. It's parallel to F/R Schmidt lights from a Schmidt Delux. 

I've had no trouble charging my iPhone 6s and my wife's 7 Plus (not simultaneously). Haven't tried charging with the lights on nor have a tried charging an iPad.

My only complaint has nothing to do with the device, rather my preferred wire routing (under rack w/ tailing wire, then into the small rear pocket on my Ozette). It's a pain to pull the bag off then have the charger flopping around. Solutions in mind are to add an inline QR and a reinforced hole in the small Ozette pocket or go for the Reactor.

For those who have had intermittent charging, I've only observed that when I'm going REALLY slow, like near-bonking slow. To hazard a guess, I'd estimate a speed over 8-9 mph is all it takes not trigger the 'on-power/off-power' vibration my phone can do.

I think it's a great product and will likely use at least one of the Sinewave products for years to come.

Best,

Ted "power to people" Rzad

[Adam Paiva]

Ted,

I have the gold banana plug connectors installed inline with the wire running along my rack and into a small hole (made with soldering iron) in the bottom of the back right pocket of my Swift bag.  The connectors live inside the pocket along with the Sinewave.  Pretty easy to disconnect and just pull the wire out the bottom of the pocket.  USB cable from there to my phone, either in the same pocket or sometimes tucked into the map case pocket on the top of the bag.

Part of why I wasn't tempted by the Reactor was I didn't want to then have a usb cable going from my stem to my Swift bag.  I wouldn't want my phone mounted on the handlebars.  Makes sense for a Garmin/GPS but then you've still got the usb charge cable either coming from the stem or wherever you've decided to place the Revolution.

[Nathan Spratt]

I've been using my Reactor since the first run they made in 2014 in combination with a SON 28.  At this point I find it more as a "nice to have" than a necessity, even for remote touring. It charges fairly slowly, but it is helpful for keeping devices topped up/extending the battery life. I just started to get more into randonneuring, but haven't moved it from my touring rig to rando rig to see if it would be useful for that. Right now a battery bank is doing fine for keeping the Wahoo topped up on rides.

[Theodor Rzad]

Thanks Adam!

What you've described is pretty much what I've been chewing on the next time I have a moment for soldering. Great minds! We even keep our phones in the same pocket of the same bag LOL. There have been a number of times I've wanted/needed to remove my bag while the Revolution is installed. It's OK if it's a quick thing, but for having the bike on a car rack I've had to just remove the Revolution completely. Fortunately, Mr Falconer provided all external cable guides that both hide the cables under things and allow quick, tool+ziptie-free removal.

We're also on the same page regarding the USB cable coming out of the Reactor stem cap. Functionally it would be fine, but I just don't want the visual clutter. For a supermaster tinkerer, adapting a Reactor to live inside of the stem with the USB (or some next-gen connection) on the bottom would be very clean. The cable could just go straight into your front bag or up to your computer.

Ted

[Hennis Dowe]

Hi Sandy,

Did you ever get this problem diagnosed and fixed? I have the EXACT same problem and the bike shop is saying the Reactor just doesn't put out enough juice to power a phone, but that makes no sense to me because it is what the product is manufactured to do. But riding at 15mph for an hour while the phone shows as charging does not result in any battery % increase, and or even causes big DROPS in % charge, even with NO apps running and phone on airplane mode. The phone and charging cable work fine at all other times, just not with the Reactor. If you or anyone else in the forum has any information to share, I'd be grateful. I want to rip this thing out of my bike I'm so frustrated.

Dennis Howe, Portland OR

[somervillebikes]

Dennis,

It's possible you have an internal short to ground somewhere in your system. Some of the hub's output might be short-circuiting to ground and therefore crippling the output of the hub. Conversely, you might have a poor ground connection. This is actually a more common scenario. A poor ground will introduce more resistance into the output. Lights might appear to work okay but not be at full brightness. Your charger could show up as charging, but it might only be getting a trickle.

Have you reached out to Sinewave to see what they say?

Anton

velolumino.com

[S.Fuller]

Hennis,

I think I also saw your post on FB. I would start with snagging something like this (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013FANC9W/?ots=1&tag=hotoge-20) and using it to monitor the device and the sinewave while they are coupled together. You should be able to see what the output of the sinewave is, as well as how much current and voltage the device is pulling. Can you specifically say what you have the phone doing while it's not charging? No apps at all, not even a mapping app? Is the screen on or off? What model iPhone?

S

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[daxo potato]

hi Dennis

i think it would also be helpful to know what generator and what wheel size you are using- different generators ( aka "dyno hubs") have different characteristics about what speed they produce their rated power, as well as some generators producing less than others.

also, different cables perform differently with different chargers. I'm not an expert on the subject, but empirically, same phone, same cable, different charging block produces different charging rates. I've read that the cables have circuitry that negotiates the charging rate between device and charger. if something is wired differently at either end one might not get optimal charging. (i read several articles about certain usb-c cables being able to pull more power than the charger could handle, potentially damaging the charger).

I'd start by trying a different cable.

cheers

dave

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[Hennis Dowe]

Thanks, Steve, for reaching out. To answer your questions, literally NOTHING is what I'm trying to do with the phone; when it didn't charge right while using apps, I started trying the iPhone 6s Plus with all apps closed and the screen off. Not one app going, and it the charge either stayed at the same battery % or went down by some % after a ride of any length of time maintaining at least 13 mph. Thanks for the suggesting about getting a voltage meter...the bike shop tried using an app to do that, and they tried on 2 different (android) phones with different measurements, so we really don't yet know what the true output of my Sinewave Reactor is. I'm going to now see if the bike shop has another suggestion (and maybe they should be trying yours??) like investigating and maybe rewiring the system to ensure the grounding is correct (see Anton's response in the thread just a few mins before yours), and then I'll talk with David Dean of Sinewave who has offered in my Facebook post to help me figure it out as well. Feel free to send any further thoughts your way, and I really appreciate your taking the time to help!

Dennis

[Hennis Dowe]

Thanks for your time and thoughts, Dave. I have a Son 28, and a 700c wheel with 38mm tires. I have tried several cables, and have the problem with each, yet all worked fine to charge my phone with a wall or a car charger.

Dennis

[Hennis Dowe]

Anton, thanks for giving this advice. I'll bring it up with the bike shop - I don't know if they've investigated the wiring to ensure it's perfect, or if they've only tried to use phone apps to test the output of the Reactor (see my reply to Steve's thoughts). The bike shop said they spoke with Sinewave who simply said it is out of warranty, and that it's working fine because the phone shows as charging (apparently Sinewave said that when these Reactors fail, they show NO charge passing through, and if the phone does show as charging, it can't be the Reactor that's the problem). But Mr. Dean at Sinewave saw a post I made on Facebook and has kindly offered to help me out, so I'll contact him if the bike shop can't fix it. Thanks for taking time to reply, sir.

Dennis

[somervillebikes]

Dennis,

Which headlight do you have? Do you know if it's grounded to the frame? (Edeluxes are grounded if bolted to a metal part of the bike, B&Ms are not). It would be very easy to test if you have a ground problem. If you have a test meter that can measure ohms, disconnect the two connectors from the SON hub. Then use the test meter to test each connector's path to ground. One test wire on the bike (clean metal, like a rack), the other on the connector. One connector should read 0 ohms meaning a perfect ground connection, the other connector should register infinite ohms (ideally) or at a minimum several hundred ohms.

The reason I'm thinking this is a wiring issue is because anytime you have multiple devices on a bike (headlight + charger, e.g), there are multiple wire splice joints, and more possibilities of a poor or sloppy connection. Also, the Sinewave wires run up through the star nut, and if installed shoddily, could be chafed on the star nut. In my experience, about 90% of the time problems are traced back to wiring.

Anton

velolumino.com

[Hennis Dowe]

This is extremely helpful, Anton. I'll pass to the bike shop when they call me to report what they've found. If I can't get more help with them, perhaps I'll just have them rewire the entire system. I'm not a wiring guy so if I pick the bike up from the shop and get a test meter, I don't feel confident to rewire it myself anyway. I have a B+M headlight, FYI. The light has always worked, it's only the Reactor that doesn't.

Dennis

[David Easley]

> the bike shop is saying the Reactor just doesn't put out enough juice to power a phone

This is baloney (as you say in the States). 

I had the exact same problem that you and others have described in this thread (phone registers it's supposedly being charged but the charge level actually decreases over the course of the ride). It proved to be a faulty Reactor. A replacement was provided and now my phone (Samsung Galaxy S10e) gains about 5% charge every 15 mins. While troubleshooting the first Reactor, I observed (i) my partner's phone (a Sony Xperia) didn't register it was being charged at all; (ii) multimeter tests showed that it produced 5v but as soon as any substantial load was applied (e.g. a 10Ω resistor) the Reactor cut out.

David, Nottingham UK