Salsa Colossal 650b-able?

[Steven Frederick]

I like the idea of a bike with disc brakes that can fit 700c w/fattish
slicks for pavement, and a 42-48mm or so 650b tire for gravel. Though
the idea of a bike like the awesome Diamondback Haanjo that can fit a
2.1" 650b tire, that's really sort of overkill for my intended use. A
bike that will fit a 30mm-ish 700c and something like the 650b BG Rock
N Road would be just the ticket. the Salsa Colossal catches my eye as
a possible candidate. Anyone tried 650b wheels on this bike?

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/colossal

Thanks, Steve

[Mark McGrath]

Interested in this conversation!

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[Justin Hughes]

Do a Google search. It's been done. Seems 38-584 is likely the max. Pretty sure it's a 28-622 max tire bike as designed. The Haanjo would be more attractive to me. 

[Steven Frederick]

Yep, it does seem that it would be tight. Though the google results
are mainly older model years. Wonder if the new one might have more
clearance. Van Dessel makes a couple of interesting options, the WTF
and ADD, though the WTF seems more 29er oriented so I don't know if it
would work well with 650b wheels. I like its aesthetics better than
the ADD.

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[Nick Favicchio]

Those Soma Wolverines are sexy. And Orange! More clearance doesn't hurt does it?

[William Lindsay]

All those bikes (colossal, haanjo, wolverine) have 70mm BB drop, which means they should be OK with 650B provided you run nice chubby tires.  I would consider 70mm of drop with 650x38 to be a little low in BB height, even lower than a Rivendell.  If you were going to run 650x48 or so, 70mm of drop would be perfecto, in my opinion.  

FWIW my Niner has 65mm of drop, and that's one of the reasons I bought it.  I run it with 650x42 babyshoes and 650x43 rock and roads.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Palmer]

Hi Steve,
I have a Kona Rove AL frame I built up with 26" Rat Trap Passes. Low bb, drop bars, fits a 700c x 2.0 Racing Ralph but I like the Rat Traps a lot. Confident it would fit the compass 48x584 tires but cannot remember what they are called. The Soma Wolverine is on my radar for next. The Kona is a little stiff but very fun.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

[Ray Varella]

Bill,

What length cranks are you running with that combo. 

Ray

Vallejo CA

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Ray Varella

IAABC Parrot Division

Supporting Member

[William Lindsay]

Ray Varella responded to a post by Tom Palmer asking:

"What length cranks are you running with that combo. "

But he addressed that response to "Bill"

Tom Palmer says he has a Kona Rove with Rat Trap Pass tires.  My name is Bill and I have a Niner RLT9 with Babyshoe Pass Tires. 

If Ray really wanted to ask me the question and wants to know what crankarm length I run with my Niner RLT9 with Babyshoe Pass tires, then I'll let you know they are 172.5mm. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, Ray Varella wrote:

Bill,

What length cranks are you running with that combo. 

Ray

Vallejo CA

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016, Palmer <volvot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Steve,
I have a Kona Rove AL frame I built up with 26" Rat Trap Passes. Low bb, drop bars, fits a 700c x 2.0 Racing Ralph but I like the Rat Traps a lot. Confident it would fit the compass 48x584 tires but cannot remember what they are called. The Soma Wolverine is on my radar for next. The Kona is a little stiff but very fun.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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[Ray Varella]

Mr Lindsay,

    You have done an A plus job of sussing out the information from my poorly directed question. 

I was asking you which crank arm length you were running. 

Thank you. 

BB drop, pedal width tire size and crank arm length are all factors that contribute to everyone's personal comfort level WRT to BB height. 

I am more tolerant of crank and pedal strike on a beater bike than I am on a bike with nicer parts. 

Cheers,

Ray

Vallejo CA

[William Lindsay]

I have settled into the Grant Petersen minimum BB height of 265mm.  So if 650x42B wheels have a nominal radius of 334, then you want 69mm of bb drop to get you there.  Factoring in 15% tire drop when I'm on the bike, something more like 63mm of BB drop would get me there.  If I was going to run 650B wheels on a 70mm drop frameset, I'd want to at least be capable of running 650x48B on there.

[Steve Park]

Agreed. 

I've not seen any road fork (~367 a-c) that would accommodate more than a 38-584.  The new Moots tapered road fork will fit a 42x584 with a barely a whisper of clearance, and that is a spacious road fork. Better to go with a gravel/cx fork for safer 650b clearances.

[Alex Wetmore]

If you use a 170mm crank you can get 5mm shorter on the BB height from Grant's rule of thumb.  That is why crank length is an important factor.

My primary 650B bike has over 70mm of drop and runs 40mm Compass tires.  I haven't had pedal strike issues.  The bike has an EBB at the very bottom of it's travel range, the native BB height is around 65mm, but it goes +/-12 depending on how the BB is rotated.  I prefer how the bike feels with ~74mm drop than with ~56mm drop (my two options given the current chainring/cog configuration).

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:37:23 PM
To: 650b
Subject: Re: [650B] Salsa Colossal 650b-able?

 

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[Igor Belopolsky]

Honestly, no, dont do it. The clearance is quite tight with 28mm, and some google-fu shows while 650b is possible the clearance is tight.

ps: I had one, thought about it, and didnt do it. had fun with the 700c wheels, then sold frame and wheelset.

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 7:41:51 AM UTC-4, Stevef wrote:

[satanas]

Whilst tyre drop does change BB height slightly, in practice IMHO the difference here is negligible, and can be ignored. What nobody has mentioned so far is pedal size, which can make a huge difference to clearance, especially when cornering.

At one point I tried the then-new Shimano M636 platform/SPD pedals on my MTB and immediately had major issues with pedal strike. As I didn't much like anything else about them I quickly reverted to Speedplay Frogs; problem solved.

Similarly if one uses any sort of wide/thick pedals one will need more clearance than with narrower thinner; this is particularly the case if one likes to pedal around corners; I do not.

One of the (many) things I disliked about the GR V1 I rode last year was the BB height which was about 272mm with Hetres; ~263-265 would have suited me much better, and for non-dirt use I'm okay with 260mm, and prepared to tolerate ~257mm. I've found that, for me, on anything vaguely resembling a road (ie not singletrack or rough fire trails) 265mm is enough, given 172.5 cranks and Frogs. I dislike 270+ on anything except MTBs or fixed; for the latter I use 170mm cranks and find 275 is plenty & 270 is doable. On MTBs anything much over 295mm is overkill and 300+ is annoying.

The end result is that I usually find stock BB heights excessive on just about everything, but YMMV with all of the above, and likely will.

Later,
Stephen (who wishes there were more current 172.5 MTB cranks)

[Stevef]

So the Colossal is out, it seems.  Now I'm eyeballing the Jamis Renegade exploit.  BB drop is listed as 73.5 in my size, tho--it sounds like it's better to have less?  It looks like it may have clearance for the 44-ish 650b tires I'd like to run.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/renegadeexploit.html

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 7:41:51 AM UTC-4, Stevef wrote:

[Scott Henry]

Check the Charge Plug      BB drop is 70
http://www.chargebikes.com/plug-4/

I recently got the Plug 2 and did a parts swap (same frame/fork)
http://www.chargebikes.com/plug-2/

the Plugs come with 700x42 but could easily fit a 50.   You could most likely fit a 650b x whatever in there.

Plus Performance sells them really really stupid cheaply....

Scott

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[Philip Kim]

The renegade looks like a really great bike!

[Steven Frederick]

Thanks, the Plug does look like a good value. I'm hoping for
thru-axles though-I find it easier to avoid disc brake rub with them.
Now I'm looking at the newest version of the Salsa Warbird! The name
is a bit um, aggro, but it checks a lot of boxes...

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ed Braley <edbr...@maine.rr.com> wrote:
> The Plug 3 is a very good deal on Performance Bike. Tiagra 4700, alloy
> frame, carbon fork, cable discs. $800 and only $19.99 shipping to mainland
> US! Top tubes run long on this bike however...
>
> But what a deal! And with a 4700 10 speed setup the 10 speed 650B wheels
> will be easy to find, too.
>
> The Plug 3 could be a great 650B gravel bike for short money.

>> email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.

>> To post to this group, send email to 65...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/650b.
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>
>

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[Ed Braley]

The Plug 3 is a very good deal on Performance Bike. Tiagra 4700, alloy frame, carbon fork, cable discs. $800 and only $19.99 shipping to mainland US! Top tubes run long on this bike however...

 

But what a deal! And with a 4700 10 speed setup the 10 speed 650B wheels will be easy to find, too.

 

The Plug 3 could be a great 650B gravel bike for short money.

----- Original Message -----

From: Scott Henry

To: Stevef

Cc: 650b

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Salsa Colossal 650b-able?

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