Experience with 584 x 35 Schwalbe Kojak?

[franklyn]

Hi,

I am looking for some commuting tires that still ride decently. I was wondering if anyone has experience with the new 650b version of the Schwalbe Kojaks. Also, how wide does it actually measure?

thanks,
Franklyn

[Max Shtein]

+1: would love to hear impressions / ride experience and measurement on Synergy rims. (For that matter, curious to know how they perform on traditional 19-20mm 700c rims as well.)

[Steve Palincsar]

What are the key criteria for a commuting tire, in your opinion? And how
wide a tire can you fit?

[franklyn]

Hetres are fine for me in flat protection, and all my bikes (and my wife's bikes) fit them. I am just looking for something that costs less and don't ride like duds for my wife's commuter. 

I actually want something that measure at least 35mm (otherwise what's the point of riding 650b?). That's why I have two threads asking feedback on 584 Kojaks and the wired version of the Panaracer Pari-Motos.

I also sent an email to Schwalbe USA and here is their very prompt response: "We [measure the width] on a 17mm internal rim width at the maximum psi. The width should be 35mm +- 2mm."

If this were true, I hope the Kojak measures a little wider on Synergys and SL23s, both of which are wider than 17mm (internal rim width).

Franklyn

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/30/2015 03:29 PM, franklyn wrote:
> Hetres are fine for me in flat protection, and all my bikes (and my
> wife's bikes) fit them. I am just looking for something that costs
> less and don't ride like duds for my wife's commuter.

On the other hand, how much mileage would she get out of a Hetre? If
she's as light as the one woman I know who runs Hetres on her Bleriot,
she could get over 6,000 miles from a back tire -- in which case, the
cost per mile would be pretty negligible no matter how much the initial
cost was.

[Justin August]

I would add that putting some Stan's in her tubes will help to increase the already magical flat resistance of the hetres. If I was going for cheaper initial investment I'd probably choose Paselas.

-J

[Chris Cullum]

I got 13,000km out of my first set of Hetres, rotated back to front at around 6000km. That's pretty god damn good for a supple tire. I do tend to think that the red tread is slightly harder, gives better life but also less traction from my estimation.

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[Steve Palincsar]

So, that sounds like very good value for the money to me.

[Nick Payne]

My experience with Hetres was that if I swapped front and rear after the rear was considerably worn, the handling of the bike in corners became strange because of the ~2cm wide flat strip worn in the middle of the tyre swapped from the rear. I think a better way to maximise tyre life is to wait until rear is completely worn out, then throw the rear away, move the front to the rear, and put a new tyre on the front. That way you always have the tyre in best condition on the front (and in the event of a blowout, a high speed rear puncture is a lot easier to control than a high speed front puncture).

Nick

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/31/2015 02:35 AM, Nick Payne wrote:

My experience with Hetres was that if I swapped front and rear after the rear was considerably worn, the handling of the bike in corners became strange because of the ~2cm wide flat strip worn in the middle of the tyre swapped from the rear. I think a better way to maximise tyre life is to wait until rear is completely worn out, then throw the rear away, move the front to the rear, and put a new tyre on the front. That way you always have the tyre in best condition on the front (and in the event of a blowout, a high speed rear puncture is a lot easier to control than a high speed front puncture).

That was Sheldon's advice, and I've been following it for years.

[franklyn]

That's why I always buy tires in 3s instead of 2s or 4s, since when the rear wears out, I rotate the front to the rear and put the spare tire in. 

I have 4 bikes using Hetres or Hetres EL, so I am sold on Hetres. Even for my own commuter (a Kogswell P/R that I ride everywhere) I use Hetres--but I don't go toward UC campus that much, or if I do, my stays are short. Whereas my wife needs to park her bike on or near campus for hours at a time when she is in class or doing projects. Bike theft is pretty rampant in Berkeley and on the UC campus. I lost a 700d GT Tachyon to theft several months ago. Even if they can't take your bike, they will take other stuff. My wife lost a B&M IQ Cyo, and darn nearly lose a B&M IQ Eyc. Now she only uses accessories that she can take off and bring with her when she rides that bike (and I have devised a way for her to disconnect her dynamo headlight and take it with her). Her bike is meant to be put together cheap--so the appearance will not attract attention from thieves, and even if it was stolen, we didn't lose too much. So even though cost per mile for Hetres is very good, especially since she is quite light, the calculation wouldn't pan out if the bike was stolen. That's why I am looking for cheaper alternative that still rides reasonably well. 

Franklyn

[Philip Kim]

I got a pair of 42 Paselas wire bead from Riv on my Hillborne. I really enjoy Hetres as well for long rides, but the Paselas seem to get up to speed a bit better with all the stop and go I do in the city. I was surprised how comfortable a wirebead can ride. They ride great and are super cheap.

Similiar to folding bead 38 Soma B Lines, but a more plush ride probably due to the larger tire diameter.

[Alistair Spence]

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Nick Payne <nick....@internode.on.net> wrote:

My experience with Hetres was that if I swapp

 

ed front and rear after the rear was considerably worn, the handling of the bike in corners became strange because of the ~2cm wide flat strip worn in the middle of the tyre swapped from the rear. I think a better way to maximise tyre life is to wait until rear is completely worn out, then throw the rear away, move the front to the rear, and put a new tyre on the front. That way you always have the tyre in best condition on the front (and in the event of a blowout, a high speed rear puncture is a lot easier to control than a high speed front puncture).

Nick

Agreed. I've noticed the same phenomenon, and not just with Hetre's, it's happened with Paris Moto's for me too. I think it's more a function of low trail than the the tires themselves. After rotating a worn rear tire to the front I notice a tendency towards a feeling of "oversteer", to use an automotive term. I can feel the bars turning in my hand, dropping into the corner more aggressively than I want. It means I have to exert a force on the bars in order to resist that turning, rather than having the nice neutral feel that I get with an unworn tire (ie. one that hasn't lived on the rear wheel for any length of time).

Higher trail front end geometries probably mask the phenomenon to some extent, but that's just a guess. I haven't ridden a bike with higher trail front end geo. in some years but I don't recall noticing the feeling of oversteering after rotating a rear tire to the front on those bikes.

Not a big deal in the end. I just follow the protocol that you outlined above. Rotate front tire to rear, new tire on front. No worries.

Alistair Spence,

Seattle, WA.

[Ken Mattina]

I finally mounted the 650b wire beak Kojaks that I bought from Franklyn.  

I took them out for a 20 mile ride this morning. I had them pumped up to 80 pounds.

I thought that they were better than I expected.  They rolled good, cornered good, and felt comfy.  They certainly felt fast I didn't have the clock going though. The other variable is that I've lost 25 pounds and everything feels zippy to me.

After my ride, the Kojaks both  measured 34mm on Synergy rims.

I'm anxious to take them out for a 200k.

Ken

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