Comment to the peanut gallery about Rene Herse

[Owen Sindler]

Hi Folks.

I've made a number of purchases from RH over the years. This includes tires, magazines and books.

I've also tried getting in touch with them via phone, email and letter w/o response.

It feels like I only get a response when I send them money. Disappointing.

Owen 

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 09:50 <65...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

65...@googlegroups.com

Google Groups

Today's topic summary
View all topics

• Crust Lightning Bolt and RH Canti Brakes - 1 Update
• FS: RH 650b x 55mm endurance knobbies. - 1 Update

Crust Lightning Bolt and RH Canti Brakes

Max Faingezicht <max.fai...@gmail.com>: Apr 08 12:55PM -0400 Hi John,   Thanks for checking in. I did get them installed. It took a bit of patience but I think I got the toe-in right using the included toe-in washers.   I've had very limited time so I ...more

Back to top

FS: RH 650b x 55mm endurance knobbies.

erik <threa...@gmail.com>: Apr 08 07:25AM -0700 RH 650b x 55mm endurance knobbies. 50 miles on this lightweight tire set. $130   https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop/components/tires/650b/650b-x-55-umtanum-ridge-tc-tire/   Free pickup in Portland ...more

Back to top

You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.

[William Lindsay]

You should get on these forums and ask your questions.  There's a lot of free knowledge in these communities.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[alight]

I recently had a quality control issue with their cranks and their customer service was horrible, imo.

Austin

[John Mottl]

I think the company is small and they have adopted this strategy to keep prices/overhead under control.

Fifteen to twenty years ago… I would get a response from Compass bicycles either from the stock clerk (?? Dave or???) or from Jan.  I bet they would need a full time employee or two just to answer (possibly silly and trivial) questions… hence no one gets an answer.

I think they must get allot of questions that the asker get get answers for if they just took the time to do a SEARCH or go to a blog.  I can’t fault them for this but it is frustrating… I get that.

I’m just happy they are around and take the customer relations aspect of the company with a grain of salt.

I think it’s also could (partially) be a cultural way of approaching things, Jan is a very interesting and valuable contribution to this aspect of cycling?

Cheers,

John

[John Mottl]

Please describe the incident, what was wrong with the cranks?….

[alight]

My issue with the cranks was purely cosmetic... they had missed finishing the area around the spider. They were shipped back to RH after I offered to exchange them in person. Two months after I had ordered them, and after a 3 week period of no response from the company, I asked them for a refund. Magically, right away they were fixed and a shipping label was issued. What really irked me wasn't the qc issue or how slow the customer service is, but that they told me I was outside of the refund period while I only had them in my possession less than 3 weeks, and a week of that was waiting for their initial response.

[Jan Heine]

Hey Austin,

Just saw your comment. I'm sorry about that crank issue. What happened was that you got one of the last cranks we had in stock. So when you shipped yours back, we sent it off to have it polished again. Usually, we'd send you a new crankarm immediately, but we didn't have any left. Then the new arms came in, your new cranks were built up, and at that moment you asked for the refund. It sounds like an unlikely coincidence, but that's the simple truth. (You may have seen the announcement of a new crank shipment coming in.) Your old arms are still at the polisher—things take an incredible amount of time these days! Thanks for everybody's patience. 

As a reminder, it's easy to get in touch if you have a question or concern about your order:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/contact/

That link is also at the top of our home page. We stand behind our products, and our customer service puts you in touch with people who know our products and your order. We don't farm out the initial response to chatbots or call center people who just read off a script. So you're going to get a real and knowledgable answer straight away, but we're also a small company where everybody is wearing multiple hats. Everybody here is working super-hard, and we do what we can, but getting the answer can take a little time, especially if it's a problem that doesn't happen often.

The biggest complaints we see online are from those who want to ask a question about a part before they decide to order... Unfortunately, in today's world, we were getting dozens of questions a day whether a 2007 LeMond Poprad fits 35 mm tires or whether it could be converted to 650B. To most of those, we just don't know the answer. Plus, we make some pretty specialized components, and the questions we got about $ 9 Rinko Nuts would easily triple the price if we counted the staff time it took to answer them. So we decided to sell these parts only to people who know what to do with them, at affordable prices. We put a lot of resources online for those who want to find out more, and we publish a magazine and books as well. (We even have a full TOC of all BQ editions online, so you can search for articles.)

We truly appreciate our customers, and almost all are truly wonderful people. We have a suggestions form on our website, because we want to hear from people, whether they've bought something from us or not. We've added a lot of information to our website based on those requests—we figure if one person has that question, others will, too. (We also answer individually when it's a question like that, so you don't have to check the website to see whether your suggestion was taken up.) However, there will always be people who don't like what we do or how we do things—and they don't have to buy from us. That's totally fine with us. I've heard complaints that most of the parts we sell aren't available elsewhere—I guess that's true, and it goes to show how profitable this line of business is...

Thank you for your time, and thank you for doing this remarkable journey with us!

Jan Heine, Seattle, WA

Rene Herse Cycles

[chrisr...@gmail.com]

LOL, Jan must have written this email a few minutes after his company sent me an email blatantly lying that my order for TPU tubes was cancelled because they were out of stock.  I sent a reply asking what happened because I ordered them a few minutes after receiving a mass email that they were in stock and also noted that they were still showing as being in stock on their website.  Then I get a response saying my account was "flagged for some reason" and that they would "look into it" but couldn't take my order until they could "find out more".  I called them out on the fact that their initial email about insufficient stock was evidently a lie, to which they responded I should "take my business elsewhere".    

As someone who has spent thousands of dollars on Rene Herse components and tires over the years, I can honestly say this company has no business running a business.  I've gotten better customer service from my Utility company than these clowns, and the fact they don't allow comments on any of their social media and don't provide a phone number tells you all you need to know   

Why was my account "flagged"?  My guess is because I sent them an email letting them know the last $200 set of Snoqualmie Pass Extralights that I installed (purchased through an authorized dealer) were so far out of spec that two of the best professional mechanics in Boulder (one of whom supports World Tour teams) couldn't get them to hold air.  As such, I found Jan's post blaming tire failures on hookless rims to be the fault of the rim manufacturers particularly ironic.  In fact, the whole reason I was willing to buy $120 worth of TPU tubes from Rene Herse is because I don't have faith their extralight tire casings can reliably be run tubeless.    

I am happily taking my business elsewhere Jan, and highly recommend others do the same.  There are certainly better products out there for less money that are actually tested and verified by a reputable 3rd party like bicyclerollingresistance.com who are forthright with their testing data.  

You can claim to be the father of the "all-road" revolution, but the fact is that disc brakes allowing for wider tire clearances is what actually drove the mass adoption of wider tires on drop bar bikes, and your reputation as an innovator doesn't mean anything if you treat customers like garbage.

 

[mevan...@gmail.com]

Chris, from what I've gathered you've got an axe to grind. Anytime the discussion turns to Rene Herse we already know you'll chime in with something negative. If you've never had any positive experiences with their products, why do you continue to buy from them? Just in order to have something to complain about? It's no wonder they don't want to sell to you. Good for them and saving you further heartache too.

[Chris Grigsby]

Ah, yes, cue the legions of sheeple and fanboys who will defend this company no matter how many people post about their awful customer experience…I’m not the original poster here, remember?  This is exactly why they stay in business, and no matter how many people raise these concerns to Jan, he clearly has no intention of improving.  

I don’t have an axe to grind, but I do expect the quality of the product and customer experience should mirror the premium prices being charged.  And if you want to refuse service to someone because you can’t take healthy criticism, then have the guts to admit it and not send a BS email lying about it.  True science invites inquiry and debate.  Pseudo-science posted on social media without commentary is nothing more than marketing BS and propaganda.    

  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "650b" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/650b/abTPnEPEp4w/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/df787dd0-2e7c-4450-b3ff-4311ef03ab85n%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/13/24 11:44 AM, Chris Grigsby wrote:
> Ah, yes, cue the legions of sheeple and fanboys who will defend this
> company no matter how many people post about their awful customer
> experience…I’m not the original poster here, remember?  This is
> exactly why they stay in business, and no matter how many people raise
> these concerns to Jan, he clearly has no intention of improving.
>
> I don’t have an axe to grind,

Yes, clearly you do

[John Mottl]

Chris, I don’t know you… but your words come out on my screen as not just an unhappy customer but (forgive me) an unhappy person.

Calling people here on this site - the ones that support compass bicycles/ Rene Herse -  calling them “Fan Boys” is so unkind and denigrating.

Please take your bad attitude elsewhere

Sincerely

John Mottl

Calgary Alberta,

[Jan Heine]

Hi Chris,

I'm having trouble following your story about the loose-fitting tires. On March 5, you contacted the Suggestions Desk and reported that you bought those Snoqualmie Extralight tires that you mentioned above. (You wrote that you bought them from an online retailer—which doesn't matter for warranty purposes, but it means we have no record of your purchase). You reported that you sold the Snoqualmies at a loss to an iBob member. Our team pointed out that if the tires were faulty, we would cover that under our warranty.

Now you say that you want to buy TPU tubes to install in those same Snoqualmies—apparently the same tires you earlier wrote you sold at a loss. Did you buy them back? If yes, why not just submit a warranty claim, since you are the original purchaser?

As I mentioned above, we have no record of selling any Snoqualmie tires to you, but the team decided that they'd rather not sell our products to you. I gave them permission to do so. Thanks for understanding.

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

[Chris Grigsby]

Jan, the tires were purchased from your dealer AVT.bike and, yes, they were sold at a loss under full disclosure that they could not be set up tubeless.  After reading about your TPU tubes I was willing to try them to see if it was a better solution than tubeless, at which point I would be more comfortable trying your extralight casings again.  As mentioned, it’s your prerogative if you want to refuse service to someone who had a bad experience with your product but at least have the integrity to own it instead of lying about it.  

And since you seem to be insinuating that I’m not being forthright about my purchase and ownership of your products, I also bought the following products either directly through your site or via Justyne at Bike Recyclery:

Rene Herse 46/30 171mm Double Crankset

SKF JIS Bottom Bracket

Rene Herse CP-1 Rack w/ hanging light mount

Rene Herse Centerpull Brakes

Rene Herse Bon Jon Pass

Rene Herse Babyshoe Pass 

Rene Herse Hurricane Ridge

Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass

Rene Herse Decaleur

Rene Herse Nitto Stem

Rene Herse Seatpost 

All-Road Revolution Book

It’s your company to run as you deem appropriate, but I highly suggest you read up on the concept of “service recovery” popularized by the Disney Institute.  Studies show that a customer is more likely to recommend your company to others if they had a problem resolved to their satisfaction than if they had no problem at all.  Mistakes happen in business, but you can treat them as golden opportunities to win a customer for life rather than nuisances you don’t want to deal with because you don’t want to invest the time and resources to answer phone calls and emails... or just don’t want to deal with a customer who told you about a bad experience they had with your product.  

  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/8c851938-1cbf-440c-a222-ccb05134c1dbn%40googlegroups.com.

[mevan...@gmail.com]

Here is an interesting article about customer service woes from Silca's Josh Poertner

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-culture/interview-silca-on-amazon-e-commerce-fraud-theft-returns/

You've gotta love the guy who claims a lifetime warranty for a 1980s Silca pump. And then goes online to badmouth the company when they point out that pump was made by a different company and originally came with a 2-year warranty.

[Jan Heine]

Hey Chris, I don't doubt your sincerity. You've bought an impressive amount of Rene Herse products, and you've reported an equally impressive amount of negative experiences here and elsewhere. You've also made your feelings about our company very clear (including in your posts above). 

Now you want to buy a set of TPU tubes from us, followed by a set of Extralight tires. Our team thinks it would be better for you and for us if you no longer purchased our products. Thanks for understanding.

Jan Heine

Rene Herse Cycles

[Chris Grigsby]

I do not wish to buy anything further from you Jan, and I’m sorry you got called out on a public forum for lying to a customer about their order because they noted a quality issue with your product a month or so ago in a private message.  You exist in a competitive marketplace and your unwillingness to acknowledge shortcomings that many many people have routinely pointed out in these threads will be to your own detriment. To anyone reading this, buyer beware. 

On Apr 13, 2024, at 11:53 AM, Jan Heine <janhe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Chris, I don't doubt your sincerity. You've bought an impressive amount of Rene Herse products, and you've reported an equally impressive amount of negative experiences here and elsewhere. You've also made your feelings about our company very clear (including in your posts above). 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/9c39f9c8-eeb2-41fc-b026-cbf68cf9b8f1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/13/24 2:14 PM, Chris Grigsby wrote:
> I do not wish to buy anything further from you Jan,

Then would you please just STFU about it?  You have the right to remain
silent; please take advantage of it.

[Chris Grigsby]

No actually, Steve, I have the right to share my experience in a public forum in a thread started by someone else about Rene Herse. That is literally the point of a discussion forum. And you too have the right to remain silent instead of freaking out every time someone posts about Rene Herse.

Best,

Chris

> On Apr 13, 2024, at 12:19 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:
>
> 

>> On 4/13/24 2:14 PM, Chris Grigsby wrote:
>> I do not wish to buy anything further from you Jan,
>
>
> Then would you please just STFU about it? You have the right to remain silent; please take advantage of it.
>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "650b" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/650b/abTPnEPEp4w/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/b8667c61-4a1c-4606-9100-8588f2a9470f%40his.com.

[Steve Palincsar]

You've had your say.  Now crawl back into the woodwork.

On 4/13/24 2:24 PM, Chris Grigsby wrote:

No actually, Steve, I have the right to share my experience in a public forum in a thread started by someone else about Rene Herse. That is literally the point of a discussion forum.  And you too have the right to remain silent instead of freaking out every time someone posts about Rene Herse. 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Sam Weinberg]

oh boy this is some high drama. in my time as a mechanic, i dealt with many customers like chris and they were often never satisfied, no matter the outcome, so we parted ways with them.

this personal vendetta against a company is bizarre and the ad hominem attacks even more so (public accusations of lying are heavy), which has put you in quite an isolated position. 

buy a product or don’t. a demanding customer is not always the right customer and you sound like you’ve been very difficult to please. 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "650b" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/58AA08A9-4762-427F-8014-54CA976E56CA%40gmail.com.

[Chris Grigsby]

Sam, I’m not accusing someone of lying, I was actually lied to in the form of an email saying my order was cancelled because the item wasn’t in stock when that clearly wasn’t the case.  That is a fact, and I’m sorry if that bothers you because of your affinity for the brand. By ad hominem, do you mean being told to STFU for commenting on a public forum? I didn’t start this thread about their poor customer service, and I didn’t start the multitude of other threads about the same complaint. But you are correct that this company is incapable of meeting my expectations. I’m glad yours have been met.  Interesting that an article was posted about Josh at Silca as RH could stand to emulate their approach to customer service. They are outstanding.  

On Apr 13, 2024, at 12:41 PM, Sam Weinberg <weinber...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Harry Travis]

Where's the group moderator?

Please discontinue this thread. It should have stopped before the first post, with a "revise and resubmit."

--

Harry P Travis

Portland OREGON USA 

17.4.1

On Apr 13, 2024, at 11:58 AM, Chris Grigsby <chrisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sam, I’m not accusing someone of lying, I was actually lied to in the form of an email saying my order was cancelled because the item wasn’t in stock when that clearly wasn’t the case.  That is a fact, and I’m sorry if that bothers you because of your affinity for the brand. By ad hominem, do you mean being told to STFU for commenting on a public forum? I didn’t start this thread about their poor customer service, and I didn’t start the multitude of other threads about the same complaint. But you are correct that this company is incapable of meeting my expectations. I’m glad yours have been met.  Interesting that an article was posted about Josh at Silca as RH could stand to emulate their approach to customer service. They are outstanding.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/51318867-D9C2-40E0-B700-32F60D720319%40gmail.com.

[William Lindsay]

I ordered some Rene Herse TPU tubes also.  I am looking forward to running them.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, April 13, 2024 at 7:38:35 AM UTC-7 chrisr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Jamie Dyer]

Yes, some moderation here would be good as it is well past the stage of being constructive or informative. It’s just repetition of a personal rant that even if there was a solution, I don’t think would be accepted as it wouldn’t fit the narrative.  I can’t be the only one finding this has gone on far too long. 

Sent from Outlook for iOS

---

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Harry Travis <travis...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2024 9:20:33 PM
Cc: Sam Weinberg <weinber...@gmail.com>; 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com>; Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com>
Subject: Re: [650B] Comment to the peanut gallery about Rene Herse

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/650b/3826CF1D-F389-4350-98C9-F3B81F9C6BEE%40gmail.com.

[Michael Wong]

I have bought a few things from RH. They're good parts and I've enjoyed them. I also used to have a subscription to BQ, but it lapsed, though I had a difficult time determining that was the case. I may renew when I remember.

I've worked in small operations and it's hard when you have to fill the orders after cleaning the bathroom. But I think small operations are vitally important. That said, there's lots and lots of threads on this topic. I'm not entirely sure why, but I'll keep buying RH stuff from time to time.

Chris clearly has strong opinions which they've expressed with vehemence. And there are many loyal RH customers here, so any thread like this is bound to be a "firestorm".

That said, while Chris' bedside manner might leave something to be desired, I don't really feel anything Chris stated was malicious or libelous or personal, and they should be able to have their say without moderation, even if it is unpleasant for the rest of us.

[woode...@yahoo.com]

Seen this repeated a few times, and this round certainly reinforces the public distinctions between Rene Herse and Rivendell.   Now I wouldn't  usually give anyone advise on how to handle their business, but  Mr Heine, in reacting to a public criticism tossed out this:

"The biggest complaints we see online are from those who want to ask a question about a part before they decide to order... Unfortunately, in today's world, we were getting dozens of questions a day whether a 2007 LeMond Poprad fits 35 mm tires or whether it could be converted to 650B."

Now I might be taking this the wrong way, but I might not be alone in taking this the wrong way,  it almost sounds like your looking down on a significant segment of your consumers, unless "dozens a day"  is insignificant, and folks interested in buying your tires to convert old bikes are not a relevant part of your customer base?  

I'm not following close enough to know if you've "moved on".  

I think its fine if your not marketing towards me personally, that pretty much why I didn't renew my subscription to BQ.

Making a public statement that comes across as dismissive, even if not particularly pointed, might  warrant comment...... 

And here we are. 

[mevan...@gmail.com]

That's an interesting perspective. I don't see their reluctance to engage in general discussions with customers as dismissive, but rather a reflection of the fact that Rene Herse Cycles and Jan possess a wealth of knowledge. It appears that people feel they should be able to tap into that for free.

The OP's complaint was in that vein. Out of the blue they complained that Rene Herse doesn't provide free services (if I understand correctly). In the past somebody (it may have been the OP, seems like it's the same people all the time) complained that Jan didn't reply to his private emails even though they had subscribed to BQ. To me that's an odd complaint. Subscribing to BQ buys you a magazine and not private consultation about bicycle topics.

It's sort of a unique situation with Rene Herse.  After all, I doubt anybody would ask Schwalbe whether a certain 15 year old bike fits a certain tire size... And even Jan admits he doesn't know that. In a favorable light, you'd call it humble. Admitting what he doesn't know rather than making up a response.

[Jan Heine]

"folks interested in buying your tires to convert old bikes are not a relevant part of your customer base?"

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Nothing could be further from the truth. We LOVE people who convert old bikes to 650B or resurrect old 26" mountain bikes (and not just because they spend money with us). We started importing 650B tires before there were any new 650B bikes (apart from a few Japanese customs), because we felt that the size could offer something that wasn't available back then. Later we added 26" tires in three different widths to our program, at a time when everybody considered 26" dead. Even today, there are virtually zero new bikes with 26" tires, but we remain committed to the size (and to 650B). Some (many) of those tires aren't big sellers, but they are something we love doing. As long as I have a say in it, there will be Loup Loup Pass, Babyshoe Pass, Switchback Hill and Rat Trap Pass tires. And Natsuko will keep Elk Pass tires going, no matter how many or few riders need 30 mm-wide 26" tires.

What I was trying to say is that most questions that aren't covered on our website are things we simply don't know. The tire clearance of a certain old bike and its suitability for a 650B conversion were intended as an example to illustrate that. Basically, without seeing the bike in person, it's almost impossible for us to answer those questions. To help these customers, we put a post on our website that shows customers how to determine tire clearances on their bike. Often newsgroups like this one are actually better resources for ultra-specific questions, as there's probably somebody out there who has worked on a bike like that, and maybe even done that particular conversion before. 

I'm very sorry if my comments came across that we don't care about certain customer groups. We try to keep an open mind. Classic and modern steel, titanium, aluminum, magnesium, carbon, and even bamboo and wood—we've tested them in BQ, and we've loved bikes from all these materials. 20", 26", 650B, 700C, all can make great bikes. We've given rave reviews to bikes costing less than $ 700 and to others that cost more than ten times as much. Any bike that puts a smile on the rider's face is a good bike in our opinion.

Jan Heine, Seattle, WA

Rene Herse Cycles

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 5:39:27 PM UTC-7 woode...@yahoo.com wrote:

[woode...@yahoo.com]

I'm not a very clear writer,  so hopefully the bit of constructive criticism didn't get lost in my "Hey, I resemble that remark" reaction to what I assume was an off the cuff statement.      

Personally, I would have been fine if you had finished the statement with "and we all know these jokers already have a set of  Pasela's  in their Amazon shopping cart".....

And like just about everyone here, I too owe you a cappuccino.  

[Jan Heine]

No worries. It's easy to create misunderstandings, and I'll certainly be more careful with examples that can be misunderstood. So the constructive criticism is much appreciated.

[Kieran J]

Thank you Jan for always responding to these belligerent comments with patience and respect. Your thoughtful responses reflect well on your business, IMO. I don't know how you stay calm with some of these nitwits.

Kieran

Victoria, BC

[alight]

Belligerent nitwits eh? Well, beats kowtowing.

[woode...@yahoo.com]

With friends like these who needs enemies?